So what is the Fedora Lounge all about?

[Baron Kurtz]

I kind of get the feeling that maybe you would like this to be like the Lounges "good old days" when we weren't all here.....

No, that's not right. I still get what i got from "the good 'ole days" lounge, just in smaller doses. And i find that the members contributing the most to the afore-mentioned informative etc. threads are often recently joined. And God knows there are knowledgable members from "the old days" that i wish i'd never run into.

I'm trying to explore the possible change in focus of the lounge, and get a "what is the FLounge all about"? I know for pretty certain what it used to be about (see OP) and i'm trying to work out what it's about now.

bk

 

[Miss Neecerie]

I kind of get the feeling that maybe you would like this to be like the Lounges "good old days" when we weren't all here.....

Or maybe he just wishes that the Tradition of Discussion and level of detail about clothing, was continued into today.


Sometimes it's got nothing to do with the -people- and more to do with what is and in this case -isn't- still being discussed and learned about in greater detail.

 

[KilroyCD]

I have been consistently challenged by the notion that communities can form amongst people who don't know each other; who have never, and will never meet each other. Sure, we can talk about things, and we might agree. But surely "community" suggests a bit more than that.

bk

What word would you then use to define this? Certainly, even though there are over 7800 members, very few will actually know each other but does that not mean that we/they cannot be a part of a "community" of people that enjoy similar interests? That in my opinion is what the Fedora Lounge has become. I wasn't around from the beginning, so I have absolutely no idea what the "good ol' days" that many seem to pine for were like. I was attracted to the Lounge because it is a community of people interested in classic / vintage / retro styles. Maybe it's not a community in the most literal meaning of the word, but an "internet community" it is indeed.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Or maybe he just wishes that the Tradition of Discussion and level of detail about clothing, was continued into today.


Sometimes it's got nothing to do with the -people- and more to do with what is and in this case -isn't- still being discussed and learned about in greater detail.

I was just coming to that.

I've tried not to be personal here. And certainly i had no particular member in mind when writing any of my above comments. I am attempting to deal with trends . . . in the vein of what bartenders asked everyone about yesterday.

bk

 

[Baron Kurtz]

I wasn't around from the beginning, so I have absolutely no idea what the "good ol' days" that many seem to pine for were like was.

Neither was I. The FLounge was well established and was in this format before i joined. I wasn't here for the yahoo group days. I'd be interested in the views of those people, too. The real "old timers".

But the good ole days are easily findable in early threads, and in some (though fewer) more recent threads.

bk

 

[Art Fawcett]

Thanks for putting that into words BK.

As Bartenders, we have discussed the direction the Lounge has taken and are looking for ways to put things back in focus to some degree. We are aware of the loss of interest by the most knowledgeable members , diminishing the content. That said, we also need change to accommodate the newer members and the varied interests, all the while trying to maintain the original concept.

The thread you mention was an attempt to open the discussion and see if there could be some understanding but speaking only for myself, I was disappointed that it went the direction of SO many threads ie:, the bartenders are fascists, unfair, biased, blah, blah, blah. The thread went so fast that it reached the point of absurdity before I could finish writing a post, so I just deleted and kept quiet.

For the record...although I wasn't here in the very beginning as I was tending to an ill father, I joined 3 months after it's inception, so I consider myself an "old timer". The pitch I was given at the time to join was that it was to be a "Gentleman's Club" inspired by the Golden Era Clubs where gents could (figuratively) sit back, discuss the finer things in life, the meaning of life, the curve of a brim or the subtlties of tweed without the uninterested interjecting their stupidity.

It has been a natural transition in adding the female gender to the mix ( and a welcome one I may add) as they have been as much a part of history and add as much knowledge as any of us guys, so we changed the mindset to a "Coed" club for lack of a better term. All was still well.

THEN, we were found by the masses and have grown beyond anyone's expectations OR imaginations in a very short timespan. The information dispensed over the years has been passed to the "new generations" of Loungers and now, THEY are answering the same questions that we "old timers" were answering years ago. I believe we are on about our seventh generation and the ones originally giving away the knowledge that is now "common knowledge" are dismissed. When I joined I was the ONLY hatter on the Lounge, to be quickly joined by others, but I had the most vintage experience regarding hats as it was my business. If something looked wrong with a hat or a piece of clothing there was little worry of offending as we all seemed to be trying to find accuracy and truth in both the items and our words. It was commonplace to politely correct any inacuracy, giving the background as to why it was incorrect, and furthering everyones knowledge on the subject. Usually disagreements as to an item would be worked through by discussing and sharing what each of us had expertise in and finding a consensus that worked for everyone.

This seems to have changed so much that recently there was a statement from a fairly new member that "Art isn't prone to help us hobbiests" What??
Where in the world does this member think the information filling the hat section originally came from? It came from myself, Steve Delk, John Morse, Feltfan, TonyB, etc etc.

BK, speaking only for myself and not anybody else, I cannot tell you what the Lounge is all about currently. I can only tell you what it is NOT about.

It is NOT a dating service
It is NOT about your favorite sandwich
It is NOT about what you had for breakfast or the benefits of
It is NOT about showing the world crotch shots with well meaning but ill advised pics
It is NOT a political forum...there just aren't enough flack jackets in the world for that
It is NOT a place to tout your religion, or lack of
It is NOT about throwing around words like facists, Nazi, Hitler, or even showing your latest "SS" lightning bolt purchase. Although some can look at and hear these things in the context of history, many still feel the pain involved in the entire subject. I assume this is why they are used so often, but then, the user usually intends to be insulting or cause pain.

In summary, it is NOT what was originally intended but we need to all work together to make it a place that at least resembles the original plan. We invite all ages, sexes, races, religions, with everyone being treated with respect until proven unworthy and who's opinions and knowledge are listened to until proven worthless. Somehow, we have to make it a place for everyone to enjoy and feel safe. ( even the polite jerks)

All this being said...I STILL believe this is the most comfortable place on the "net" and is worth the effort.

 

[Art Fawcett]

OMG...

23 posts while I was writing mine...

 

[Baron Kurtz]

I appreciate your opinion, but a few thoughts. One is that you may not have as much to learn anymore. If you were still new, you may well find a lot of good info. But now, as an old hand, you may not find much that is new to you.

I don't think there is a point where you don't learn anything new. There's always learnin' to be done. Shooting down old myths with newly found primary sources being one of the old favourites that i miss.

When i joined the lounge - like you - i already knew a lot. I came to share and ended up being taught lots more by the likes of Marc C and Root and many others. I honestly don't believe that Marc's interest in vintage and learning new stuff has died. But he don't post any more.

bk

 

[KilroyCD]

I was just coming to that.

I've tried not to be personal here. And certainly i had no particular member in mind when writing any of my above comments. I am attempting to deal with trends . . . in the vein of what bartenders asked everyone about yesterday.

bk

So, if I'm reading everything correctly, you seem to feel the Lounge has lost its focus due to the inevitable influx of new people, many who have classic interests beyond that of clothing (i.e. classic autos, bikes, railroads). This influx of people has then led to a significant increase of associated off-topic discussion, which you feel is diluting the content to the point that you find there is very little real information being shared on the core interests of the Lounge as it was originally conceived. Have I hit the nail on the head?

 

[Baron Kurtz]

23 posts while I was writing mine...

yeah, i've been editing all night to add quotes so everyone knows exactly which post i'm referring to.

bk

[edit] there's another one.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

So, if I'm reading everything correctly, you seem to feel the Lounge has lost its focus due to the inevitable influx of new people, many who have classic interests beyond that of clothing (i.e. classic autos, bikes, railroads). This influx of people has then led to a significant increase of associated off-topic discussion, which you feel is diluting the content to the point that you find there is very little real information being shared on the core interests of the Lounge as it was originally conceived. Have I hit the nail on the head?

No. Way off beam.

My contention is that very little real information is being shared at all. The few threads with information and research bringing new things to light (independent of the specific topic) are being swamped in endless "new hat from eBay", "new suit from eBay", "share a photograph of yourself doing something stupid". These threads are full of endless "nice new hat/suit from eBay". No real opinions can be shared even if someone has something to say, because a link to the auction is generally all we see of the hat/suit/whatever in question.

bk

(you'll (vosotros) note that though my examples are from the clothing realm, i believe from talking to others that this can be applied across the various rooms of the website.)

 

[KilroyCD]

No. Way off beam.

My contention is that very little real information is being shared at all. The few threads with information and research bringing new things to light (independent of the specific topic) are being swamped in endless "new hat from eBay", "new suit from eBay", "share a photograph of yourself doing something stupid". These threads are full of endless "nice new hat/suit from eBay". No real opinions can be shared even if someone has something to say, because a link to the auction is generally all we see of the hat/suit/whatever in question.

bk

(you'll (vosotros) note that though my examples are from the clothing realm, i believe from talking to others that this can be applied across the various rooms of the website.)

I see your point. I usually don't bother with many of the eBay related threads, except with those pertaining to hats. Many times I've seen people asking for information regarding a hat on eBay (and I have seen some very good information given), sometimes it's someone looking for a big "thumbs-up" because of a good buy, and sometimes it's someone who (maybe with a touch of buyer's remorse) is looking for someone to give them some reassurance that they didn't make a bad decision. Granted, there won't be a lot of information in the majority of those posts. But it's an inevitable outgrowth of what started as a small "club" morphing into a large internet community.
But there are some bright stars in all this growth. I'll mention Choeki, for one. His dissertation on "starching shirts - the Japanese way" should be made a sticky. It was informative, erudite and entertaining. You lament the fact that many who possess the knowledge aren't posting, yet I see fresh new faces who potentially have a lot to offer. Maybe we'll see a renaissance, so to speak.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

yes, all i say is underpinned with the caveat that there is still a little of the good stuff coming through. Your mention of the starching shirts thread is warranted. I have kept, and will keep my comments more generic than naming specific loungers since that's not my intention here.

bk

 

[Brinybay]

My contention is that very little real information is being shared at all. The few threads with information and research bringing new things to light (independent of the specific topic) are being swamped in endless "new hat from eBay", "new suit from eBay", "share a photograph of yourself doing something stupid". These threads are full of endless "nice new hat/suit from eBay". No real opinions can be shared even if someone has something to say, because a link to the auction is generally all we see of the hat/suit/whatever in question.

bk

(you'll (vosotros) note that though my examples are from the clothing realm, i believe from talking to others that this can be applied across the various rooms of the website.)

Comments from a newbie.

I agree in part and disagree in part. I agree that the off topic threads such as "favorite sandwich", "embarrassing photo", "occupation", "what do you look like?" and maybe a couple others THAT I ADMIT I POSTED TO should perhaps be reigned in.

But I disagree about the "show and tell" part of vintage purchases on eBay and thrift stores, or the "show us a pic of you in full vintage regalia" isn't relevant. I've found them very interesting and even inspirational in that I found out that the sharp outfit one member was wearing in their avatar were ALL SEPARATE THRIFT STORE FINDS.

I also cannot discuss with you about the "finer details of Golden Era clothing and hats" because I wouldn't know what you're talking about as I only own one friggin' hat (so far), no suits at all, and one pair of dress shoes that I found in a thrift store (a not-too-shabby pair of Cole-Haans).

However, in the less than a month that I've been here, I'm already teaching some of my friends about some hat basics, e.g. a friend described to me the kind of hat he wanted to get for an upcoming Roaring 20s party. I was able to identify the hat he was describing and then asked him if he had a few hundred $ to spare. I then referred him to some of the resources here and elsewhere, all of which I learned in the few weeks I've been here.

My hobby is scuba diving. After 14 years and almost 600 dives, my life-style (and spare cash) has been pretty much geared around that. Two months ago if someone had told me I would spend over $100 on what I considered at the time a "dorky hat" and another $100 updating my wardrobe to something more classy, I would have told them they were nuts. Consider that a testament to FL, even in its "diluted" form.

 

[reetpleat]

You're almost there. I've taken a rather general opinion about the nature of the internet *and a notion of how people treat internet boards/fora/messaging sites, in my view inappropriately* and in an act of analysis related that to what appears to be a trend in this particular website. Result: discussion.

bk

I will throw a few things out there.

I will be the first to admit that the internet can at times, for me, becoem an addictive distraction from reality that is not alwasy healthy or useful. I am pretty self aware and have realized that I rely on the internet sometimes to give me a sense of human interaction taht is, at best, a poor substitute for reality. That said, i m hardly a miserable loser who has no friends and sits in his basement all day chatting with my "internet community."

But I have always had issues about humn connection and feeling like I belong and I fidn that the internet can sometimes come into play as an attempt to assuage taht. IT doesn't work. when I sense that I am geting unhealthy I take a break or quit the site. My only real experience was craigslist rants and raves. That was an easy one because it got really negative and I am so over it.

The lounge however, is differnent because it seems to generally attract people I like. But it is my only site these days.

I have taken some breaks when I sense my fl activity getting overdone and obsessive. And I come back when It is a healthy occasional outlent to chat with people I like.

No, it is not the same as a neighborhood or family community. but it is a community. I know a lot about certain personalities and get to know them.

I consider my connections here healthy and good for the most part.

 

[reetpleat]

I have been consistently challenged by the notion that true *communities* can form amongst people who don't know each other; who have never, and will never meet each other. I haven't seen estimates - but i'd love to see some - of how many people in real life live up to their internet personae. So, the notion of community is confounded (and i agree this is also the case in "real life") by the probability that a large number of members of that community are "faking it".

Sure, we can talk about things, and we might agree. But surely "community" suggests a bit more than that?

Why in God's name are we awake?

bk

I think that people's internet perssonaes are pretty much who they are. A person who puts on a fake persona is the person who would put on a fake persona in rality too. I do know that hte sme things I say and do that offend or put off people in real life will have the same effect here. Not that I feel I am particularly offensive. But you get the idea.

 

[reetpleat]

I guess this forum is different things to different people. I can understand that the original purpose ws to share information on the details of vintage hats and suits. But for me, I would be happiest if the lounge contained only one thread that went on forever.

That thread would be "check out my new vintge or vintage inspired outfit. Here is a pic and a little information about it..."

 

[Jovan]

You'll see I created a thread a little more in keeping with what you want here in Suits... I hope that helps you a bit. (Though I am genuinely interested in it.)

 

[Vladimir Berkov]

Your post made me think about the FL for a bit, and I realized what I miss about the earlier days is the sharing of information on good sources for things.

I have found many, many interesting things only through the lounge. For instance, my Akubra federation. There are a lot of threads with great info on things which motivated me to research it even more, such as the "Adventuring Gear" thread.

I still see threads like this, but it seem they are fewer.

 

[mtechthang]

BK - perhaps it IS more meaningful for new folk?

Quoth Scott:
When I joined, many moons ago, this was a place suited to what i was looking for. Educated discussion of the more nuanced, perhaps ephemeral, details of vintage clothing and hats. There was a core group of very knowledgable (in terms of vintage clothing) members who'd been around a while before i joined, and a few who joined pretty much simultaneously with myself.

BK- I just excerpted the above to say that you don't really need to apologize- I didn't see the post as rambling at all. As a new FL'er, I learned a lot about FL from your thoughts. :eusa_clap :eusa_clap I can't comment, of course, on changes as I just joined in, but I would agree with you that there are a number of folk here who do seem to be particularly informed. I guess the result of the popularity of the site is that some "dilution" of content is almost inevitable. But I would add two things. First, you have probably gained a lot of knowledge since you joined- so perhaps it IS harder for you to find those more knowledgeable than you. (I'm not saying that well, am I? :eusa_doh: ) Anyway, my second point is that I have been wearing hats for at least the last 25 years (first Fedora was related to Indiana but my first intro to Fedoras was my granddad). He taught me a lot and I've picked up a little along the way from attempts to upgrade etc. I can honestly say that I've learned more about hats in my month on FL than in any decade before.

As to the "meaning" of pontification among the uninformed, I know about head injuries, I'll leave that to the clinical psychologists or psychiatrists. [huh] Though, I suspect, "They do because they can" is a pretty good start.