Sizing advice

[Mr E Train]

I have my eye on a nice vintage hat from an online seller, and although there is no size marked, the seller did front-to-back and side-to-side measurements and had it listed as being 8.5" by 7". I'm a size 7 3/4, and one of my hats that fits me measures just a hair under 8.5" by just a hair over 7". With that hat I have a little more room on the sides than I need, so I can give a little there, so 8.5" by 7" sounds perfect. In the listing, though, the seller estimated that it was a size 7 1/4. That worried me, so I figured I'd try to get more information.

I emailed the seller to ask her to take a tape measure and measure around the inside of the sweatband. She replied that the measurement around the sweatband came to 22 3/4", and reiterated that front to back it was 8.5" and side to side was 7". I'm not a mathematician by any means, but that doesn't add up. Even if the hat isn't a perfect oval (and I've seen a shot of the underside of the hat, and it looks pretty darned oval), I don't see how it could be that far off from the somewhere between 24" and 24 1/2" that I would expect. I'm thinking maybe the seller did a clumsy measurement around the length of the sweatband--it's not the easiest thing in the world to do, especially if you don't know what you're doing--and I don't want to ask her to do it again.

Would you feel comfortable with just the front and back/side to side measurements that it would fit me? I have the option of returning the hat, but they charge a restocking fee, and I'd rather avoid having to do a return.

 

[Not-Bogart13]

Don't do it, man! I have learned the hard way that the measurement front-to-back and side-to-side are meaningless. My very first vintage hat should have fit me very well, but turned out to be about 4 sizes too small. The measurements were right, but it didn't matter. This is why I hate geometry. It don't make no common sense! :eusa_doh:

Anyhow, best to believe the circ. only. Less painful.

 

[Mr E Train]

Don't do it, man! I have learned the hard way that the measurement front-to-back and side-to-side are meaningless. My very first vintage hat should have fit me very well, but turned out to be about 4 sizes too small. The measurements were right, but it didn't matter. This is why I hate geometry. It don't make no common sense! :eusa_doh:

Anyhow, best to believe the circ. only. Less painful.

That sounds like sound advice, and definitely has me leaning towards passing this one by. I've always disliked geometry as well, this only makes me dislike it more.:rage:

 

[RBH]

What NB said...

 

[Mr E Train]

My mind's made up, passing it by. Thanks for the advice, fellas.

 

[Mr E Train]

Heh, just got a follow-up email from the seller. She found the size tag under the sweatband, 7 3/8. She was measuring from where the stitching is attached, not from inside the sweatband. So her initial guess of 7 1/4 wasn't far off.

 

[Woodfluter]

Water over the dam, under the bridge...but anyway...

Have to say that the max/min diameters combined with 1st Ramanujan* approximation for circumference of ellipse worked pretty well for the hats I have. Very close to actual circumference. You can program a calculator or spreadsheet to do that for you. However, the problems are:

1. The average person can't measure soft things accurately. Some can't even read fractions right. Sorry, don't mean to be condescending, but it's true. Especially with English system rulers that are the norm in USA. Carpenters and woodworkers excepted.

2. To do an accurate measurement with a soft hat, you have to be careful not to stretch it as you insert the ruler. Guess what most folks do.

3. There's always some taper to the sweatband and you have to decide exactly where to measure.

I think the most foolproof method (not my own invention!) is to ask them to cut some strips of stiff paper about the width of the sweatband or a bit narrower, tape them together to make a long strip, insert that inside the sweat until tight and mark the overlap. Then lay out flat and measure. Most people can do that without screwing it up too badly. And it's only one measurement, one chance to read something wrong.

- Bill

*C = pi (3(a+B) - [(a+3b)(3a+b)]^0.5)
where a is max, b is min.

 

[Kangfish]

I never dreamed there were so many people who can't read a tape measure untill I tried to find a helper for some cabinet work. " It's 23 inches, two medium and three small marks long"[huh]