Since this is supposedly the right place to say it

[Marc Chevalier]

The Remember Pearl Harbor Thread
(A play in one act)


THE CAPTAIN: "Japs!" (Unedited by Paddy)

DUSTY RHODES: "Yeah, Japs!" (Unedited in by Paddy)

BILTMORE BOB: "Uh huh, Japs!" (Unedited by Paddy)

MARC CHEVALIER: "What do you mean by 'Japs'?" (Eliminated by Paddy)

MARC CHEVALIER: --- (Eliminated by Paddy)

MARC CHEVALIER: --- (Eliminated by Paddy)

All responses to MARC CHEVALIER's question: --- (Eliminated by Paddy)


Why, Paddy? Why do "Japs" stay and questions about it go?

 

[jamespowers]

Uh, if you look it is right back here at:
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=5497
I thought you moved it here as your name is the starting post but that is fine with me. You can still see and read it.

Regards to all,

J

 

[BellyTank]

I don't have a problem with the word-
...Aussies, Kiwis, Brits...
Someone will always be offended by something... or nothing.

B
T

 

[Siirous]

I once had a teacher that I think said it the best when commenting on a then recent free speech article. The jist of the article was that a courthouse had put out little wireframe light up angels on their front stairs to celebrate christmas, and an aethiest was demanding they be taken down because he was not of that religion. My teacher said, "You have the right to be offended, what you do not have is the right to keep everyone from offending you."

Of course, there is always such things as tact and social graces, but I thought it was a valid point.

Sincerely,
Rob

 

[jamespowers]

I don't have a problem with the word-
...Aussies, Kiwis, Brits...
Someone will always be offended by something... or nothing.

You have a point. There will always be someone who is offended by something. Thus is the tightrope a gentleman has to walk.

Regards to all,

J

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Uh, if you look it is right back here at:
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=5497
I thought you moved it here as your name is the starting post but that is fine with me. You can still see and read it.

Regards to all,

J

You are absolutely right. I didn't see it! (Egg on my face, eating crow.) My deepest apologies to Paddy and everyone else.

 

[BellyTank]

...Egg on my face, eating crow.

...bad Acid..?

Ice cream for Crow!

JP-
A Gentleman walking a tightrope best be armed with a brolly and stout shoes...

B
T

 

[jamespowers]

JP-
A Gentleman walking a tightrope best be armed with a brolly and stout shoes...

Not to mention a large net under him. I doubt the brolly really helps much but the shoes might have something to do with it.

 

[Section10]

A moral, sensible and well-bred man
Will not affront me, and no other can. ------Cowper

 

[shamus]

I think the problem many have is how and by whom it is used.

An American who uses it today, I feel is using it in a negative condentation towards another group and in the example "Jap," an entire country.

This term was common during WWII for allied troops to refer to an enemy. (hense, the negative condentation). Of course other terms were also used, but lets stick with this one since we started on it.

Now, back to my original point of "how and by whom it is used"

Certain groups of people can and do use what people outside that group would consider negative slang towards each other. This is openly accepted in those groups but not from someone outside the group.

They would see it as a negative condentation towards them.

It all boils down to thinking before you speak. and unlearning habbits that may be fine with your friends and familys, but outside of those groups, others can and will be offended.

 

[BellyTank]

...or maybe it's just you...

B
T

 

[shamus]

...or maybe it's just you...

B
T

I guess you're right. I mean why should I care about treating other people with courtesy and respect?

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Here's something to consider. If a person of Japanese ancestry pops into the Fedora Lounge, sees the word "Japs" thrown around, feels pretty bad about it, and gives the Lounge a piece of his/her mind ... what will you say in response? Will you say "What's your problem? You're being too sensitive. It's just a word."

Maybe the point here is not whether or not you feel offended by a word; the point is whether the person it refers to feels offended by it.

The Japanese government, its military (really the same thing), and lots of its people were very racist in the war years. I imagine that a lot of Japanese folks still are. (Heck, most humans are.) The Empire of Japan surprise attacked U.S. protectorates, a territory (Hawaii), the U.S. military, and started a war with us. To hell with the Japanese people who wanted war; they shouldn't have supported the oppressive, American-killing, British/Australian/New Zealander/Canadian-torturing, Chinese-slaughtering, Filipino-enslaving, Korean-raping military dictatorship that ran the show. But here's something to chew on: while the U.S. was refusing to accept a boatload of Jewish refugees into New York, the Japanese were accepting boatloads of Jewish refugees from Vladivostock. In fact, they considered forming a Jewish colony in Manchuria (then occupied by Japan). Ironic, huh? One country's prejudice is another country's opportunity.

 

[BellyTank]

I guess you're right. I mean why should I care about treating other people with courtesy and respect?

Hmmm... very courteous...

Are you perhaps defending people who don't exist/aren't complaining/don't need defending/could care less/flogging a deceased horse..?

Some people, especially those on the other end of the name, may be more open minded about this-

I have never thought of (nor used)the 'J' word as a derogatory reference(it's not strong enough/has no meaning)- maybe that's due to my background and I have lived long-term in several cultures.

I know that in New Zealand, where I am originally from, (Australia too) everything has a nickname- every thing, every make of car... and yes every race- it's not a 'racist' thing at all, it's just a 'thing'.

There are much more harmful things than 'Jap' to worry about- surely(?).

B
T

 

[shamus]

Hmmm... very courteous...

Are you perhaps defending people who don't exist/aren't complaining/don't need defending/could care less/flogging a deceased horse..?

Some people, especially those on the other end of the name, may be more open minded about this-

I have never thought of (nor used)the 'J' word as a derogatory reference(it's not strong enough/has no meaning)- maybe that's due to my background and I have lived long-term in several cultures.

I know that in New Zealand, where I am originally from, (Australia too) everything has a nickname- every thing, every make of car... and yes every race- it's not a 'racist' thing at all, it's just a 'thing'.

There are much more harmful things than 'Jap' to worry about- surely(?).

B
T

Mr. Belly,

if you re-read my post you'll see I said for Americans. I did not say for people from New Zealand.

And yes there are much more harmful things to say than "Jap", but that is the term that started the recent whole censoring of threads now isn't it. And that's why I brought it up.

 

[MK]

.

In less someone here is Japanese, lets just skip it. No need for all this speculation on how someone might feel.

Jap is short for Japanese just like Brit is short for British.

 

[BellyTank]

Now that makes sense!

B
T

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Anyone remember how much trouble that Bill Murray movie caused? Not in Japan. Just here in the U.S. People got all worked up about how it portrayed the Japanese as being of short stature 'cause all the Japanese actors in the film were short. Maybe that's because - like the Scots, Irish, Welsh, and Cornish - they are predominately shorter than anglo-saxons. Go to Japan. The average american towers above the crowd on the street.

The point is that we seem to be getting all het up about something awfully minor. Quite frankly i don't know any Japanese people who care about what moniker we use for their countrymen. But if you were to be speaking to a Japanese person and refered to them as, for example, a "damned jap" that would be wrong.

As Shamus says (i think), it's about courtesy and an understanding of the situation you are in.

But then, i'm not Japanese.

bk

 

[LadyPowers]

Here's something to consider. If a person of Japanese ancestry pops into the Fedora Lounge, sees the word "Japs" thrown around, feels pretty bad about it, and gives the Lounge a piece of his/her mind ... QUOTE]

Well Marc,

For every race, someone has a slang word for them. I am not offended by the word Jap. I have heard all types of jokes regarding my mixed ancestry since elementary school. They are just words nor do I give it power to hurt me.

Regards,
Lady Powers

 

[Andykev]

The horse lost the race, is dead, and is being dragged from the track, OK?

As I pointed out in another thread, the word "JAP" should refer to those persons who were living and partaking in the WWII attacks on the USA, the Batan Death March, etc. etc.

Would I ever call someone from Japan a "Jap" today? Never ever. I ONLY have used the word exclusively in the context of WWII, and that period alone.

MK is correct. This horse is being beat to death. I also saw this same issue pop up in the MOVIES section today, and I edited it, and will continue to edit it. This has to stop being "personal", or a crusade for someone.