Sinatra's hats

[MattC]

I was looking at some of his Reprise covers, and it looks to me like he's wearing the narrow brim, wide ribbon high crown Cavanagh's of the late 50s, and 60s. Most of them look wide toward the back, either a C crown or a diamond top. Anyone know anything about his hats?

 

[Harry Lime]

I've heard Cavanagh...

...and that's per Graham Thompson of Optimo, a pretty reputable source. I've seen pictures of him in C-Crown, center dent and telescoping crown (sort of a fedora/pork pie cross.)

Have you read the Sinatra book "The Way You Wear Your Hat." Really fun. It's got a lot of his personal style musings ("No brown after 5 PM, Clyde. Go home and put on your tux.") and little bits about shining your shoes by rubbing them briskly under couch mats, etc. Pretty cool. You may enjoy "Why Sintra Matters" by fellow New Yorker Pete Hamill as well.

Now go dig a couple of fingers of Jack, baby. And how's your bird?

Harry Lime

 

[Andykev]

He did it "My Way"

The style Sinatra used that is most recognized is the "Stingy Brim". Generally, the very narrow band. Stetson and Cavanagh made them. If the hat has the "Cavanagh" edge then you can guess what that hat is. Frank likely bought the best, so I believe that Cavanagh would have been his choice over Stetson. Not that Stetson is a bad hat. I have a 2 3/8 Stetson from the 60's, which is a high quality hat. It is also the lower limit to my preference for width, which is a 2 1/2 inches.

Sinatra did wear wide brim hats in the '40's early on. But he was a scrawny skinny "kid". Not the "New York, New York" guy we all love.

 

[Lincsong]

Rough with class

Sinatra was a class act. An uneducated man, brilliant business man, weak in personal relationships, strong with charity, an iron fist in a velvet glove. And he knew exactly how to wear a hat. Scooby, dooby doo!:cheers1:

 

[MattC]

Cavanagh?

Well, lots of brands sold hats with a Cavanagh edge. But you are certainly right, Cavanagh itself was the cream of the crop, and Sinatra probably bought the best.

I always think of brims 1.5 or less as stingy, but 2" as moderate. That's prob. because I'm not a big guy and I have a narrow face. The hat in the current avatar has a 2 1/8" brim. Over 2.5 and a hat usually looks pretty bad on me. I have a gorgeous Cav. edge Borsalino with a 3" brim and I just can't wear it.

 

[Rundquist]

Sinatra was a class act. An uneducated man, brilliant business man, weak in personal relationships, strong with charity, an iron fist in a velvet glove. And he knew exactly how to wear a hat. Scooby, dooby doo!:cheers1:

Sinatra had a career lull in the 50's. He somehow got it in his head that this lull was due to government blacklisting. He voluntarily offered to ?¢‚Ǩ?ìsnitch?¢‚Ǩ? on fellow entertainers that he thought had communist leanings in exchange for the government letting up on his imposed ?¢‚Ǩ?ìbanishment?¢‚Ǩ?. Sinatra might have been a fine singer at various points in his career, but he was a creep in real life.

 

[MattC]

Right about that

With most artists, I think you have to separate the person from what they produce. A fair number of really great artists were really rotten human beings.

 

[Raindog]

He was a creep. Dean Martin related how he liked to play mean tricks on people too. Martin opened his dressing room door one day to find a naked starlet in his room, she smiled prettily and said Frank had advised her that she could further her career by visiting Martin and showing her wares....Martin replied "That's very nice dear, but you must remember that Frank is an asshole"....
He did look cool though


Jeff.

 

[Lincsong]

He ratted out Reds, good for him!

If Sinatra ratted out Red Commies who wanted to pollute the minds of American's good for him. I think it's funny to have a friend who would send a naked woman to my room. Sinatra built orphanges and hospitals in Mexico, he paid off mortgages for widows, paid the hospital bills for sick kids. George Raft and Bela Lugosi were on hard times and Sinatra helped them out. He never asked anything in return. :cheers1: If ratting out Reds and sending naked women to dressing rooms makes someone a creep then we need more creeps. Also, bartenders what's the criteria for hijacking a thread again? I thought we weren't supposed to veer too far off the subject of the thread. What does naked women and ratting Communists have to do with Sinatra wearing classy hats? What does it have to do with the size of the brim of the hat he was wearing? How does "creep" and "stingy brim" relate? Let's stay on topic here; Sinatra's hats.

 

[budward]

I wonder if Frank bought custom made hats? Anybody know if those were available even though there were decent production hats available?

Bud

 

[MattC]

No offense friend

But in America, I thought you were supposed to be able to believe whatever you like. Something about that in the constitution I think. So its ok to think Lees are better than Cavanaghs (talk about heresey) or that Borsalino still makes some good hats (now there'll be a fight). And people shouldn't be "ratted out" for what they think.

 

[Fedorista]

Sinatra built orphanges and hospitals in Mexico, he paid off mortgages for widows, paid the hospital bills for sick kids. George Raft and Bela Lugosi were on hard times and Sinatra helped them out.

Osama bin laden has been much involved in alms for needy widows, building schools and hospitals. No less a creep notwithstanding the good deeds.

 

[Raindog]

Easy to throw money about....Especially with the amount he had.
Still wish I was as thin as him in his early days though, and wish I could pull off the stingy brim look too.


Jeff.

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

Sinatra vs Osama

That's about as asinine as comparing and contrasting Jesus and Spiderman. Enjoy the man' style and music, nevermind all the personal crap. Wasn't this thread about his hats, and not what a creep he was, or what a bunch of jerks you guys may or may not be? This place is fast becoming a Kitty Litter Box in dire need of a good scooping!
Dusty

Osama bin laden has been much involved in alms for needy widows, building schools and hospitals. No less a creep notwithstanding the good deeds.

 

[Lincsong]

Get back on track

I agree with Dusty. Get back on track. I don't believe Sinatra was waging war on Western Society. MattC. the Red's he ratted out were no Freedom loving American's. They wanted to use pictures to undermine this country. It was Lenin who said that the motion picture was the greatest propaganda tool ever created. Red's don't believe in freedom of speech, thought, religion, private property, so why protect someone who wants to destroy you? Sinatra had a sense of style that hardly any of the today's pop artists have. Who here would rather dress like 50 cent or Snopp Dogg over Sinatra? He had some great looking hats. The small brim fit him. His suits were beautifully tailored. I wouldn't doubt if he had several custom made hats. If his suits were custom tailored why not the shoes and hat? He scraped and scratched to earn every dime, and he enjoyed the fine quality objects that are offered in America. The wide brimmed hats he wore in the 1940's made him look boyish. The smaller brimmed one's in the 50's made him look like a man. Like the song from ROBIN AND THE SEVEN HOOD'S goes; "you either got or you haven't got style" and Sinatra had style.

 

[Raindog]

Whatever his personal faults (who hasn't got those?) I have to agree. The man looked damn cool. You have to have the frame to pull it off I think. Even so I'd like to find somewhere that does similar hats. Gene hackman looked cool in a stingy brim, so it might not be to do with size as much as attitude.
Anyone got any movie recommendations with Sinatra looking ultra cool? Might be difficult as the movies came later in his career I think.



Jeff.

 

[Brad Bowers]

Anyone got any movie recommendations with Sinatra looking ultra cool? Might be difficult as the movies came later in his career I think.

I'm partial to some of his early to mid-Fifties films, such as Young at Heart, The Tender Trap,Guys and Dolls, and High Society. The same time as his years with Capitol, when I think he made his best recordings. Never really could get into his Reprise years stuff.

Brad

 

[Raindog]

Thanks Brad, I'll check them out


Jeff.

 

[Lincsong]

Several Movies

Check out; Pal Joey, Ocean's Eleven, Tony Rome, The Tender Trap, Hole in the Head, Robin and the Seven Hoods. If you catch any of his specials that are rebroadcast on PBS he's dressed to kill.:cool2:

 

[Raindog]

I can see my collection of old movies is going to quadraple in the next few weeks Cheers :cheers1:

Jeff.