Simmons Bilt. Which leather?

[Seb Lucas]

If you spend a lot of time in bars don't get heavy leather. You'll have to take it off and someone will steal it. I have had this happen a few times. I spent a lot of time in bars over the years. A lot. I recommend a vintage Brooks cafe racer. You can get a good one for under $200 and it will last you years. Light characterful steer hide and much cooler looking than the vintage inspired reproof cafe racers, no matter who makes them.

 

[Woodyear]

I thought the protective top coat is more of a final waterproofing coat totally separate from the pigments!

Nick, it can be. However it usually isn't because it generally defeats the purpose, which is uniformity of color and durability whilst retaining the soft hand of a full aniline leather. I actually have a jacket with this configuration, and the jacket retains the mottled natural appearance but has a shiny acrylic top coat which annoys me. Over time the clear top coat will wear away or if one wants to speed up the process they can just take it off with some isopropyl alcohol. Rub until the shine is gone and you begin to see color come off on the rag, and then move to a different spot. Warning however, the jacket may transfer color but typically only when its damp.

Here's an illustration which may help.

http://www.leatherusa.org/aniline-semi-aniline-pigmented-leather

 

[nick123]

Nick, it can be. However it usually isn't because it generally defeats the purpose, which is uniformity of color and durability whilst retaining the soft hand of a full aniline leather. I actually have a jacket with this configuration, and the jacket retains the mottled natural appearance but has a shiny acrylic top coat which annoys me. Over time the clear top coat will wear away or if one wants to speed up the process they can just take it off with some isopropyl alcohol. Rub until the shine is gone and you begin to see color come off on the rag, and then move to a different spot. Warning however, the jacket may transfer color but typically only when its damp.

Interesting. I think I know what you are talking about. Some people have tried that with success on these forums. My amateur reasoning behind my statement was confirmation from a defunct maker regarding a waterproof sealant/coat applied to a fully analine hide. And the leather had very little shine to it. I suppose I'm just curious about this "sealant"; whether or not it is applied after the fact or is a process in the leather creation itself.

 

[Woodyear]

Interesting. I think I know what you are talking about. Some people have tried that with success on these forums. My amateur reasoning behind my statement was confirmation from a defunct maker regarding a waterproof sealant/coat applied to a fully analine hide. And the leather had very little shine to it. I suppose I'm just curious about this "sealant"; whether or not it is applied after the fact or is a process in the leather creation itself.

Nick fully aniline means there can be no top coat applied, otherwise it's semi aniline. Any waterproofer or sealant applied to full aniline is essentially just some oil or silicon spray to make water bead up like the suede waterproofer stuff you can buy. That stuff isn't really a part of the leather but just something that's sitting up on top of it to offer some modicum of protection and eventually sloughs off and must be reapplied. If it's an actual paint or finish that's applied to the aniline leather then the aniline has just been turned into semi aniline leather unfortunately.

 

[Harris HTM]

Oskar,
As Seb said, if you visit bars a lot then avoid heavy leather or heavy lining.
Where are you based? Having lived in 2 european countries (gr and nl) I can assure you that bars are different depending on location and weather. Here in NL usually it's really really cold till you get to the bar but then you have to take your jacket off as it is very warm on the inside. In GR usually you can keep your (lightly lined) jacket on duribg winter, though personally I hate the stench of smoke as everybody is smoking inside.
My advise, if you are determined to go for a brand new jacket, would be to get a lightly lined off-the-rack jacket (thus you can return it without difficulty if it doesn't fit). My first expensive leather was a schott 618 which I'm actually wearing at the moment and though fitwise I got much better with custom aero's it is amazing.
Good luck and keep us posted.
In no time you will end up with many jackets and no savings.
You will either end up getting your girlfriend a custom aero (I know, I did) or she will leave you.

 

[58panheadfan]

... as I really want to pick up a Shinki jacket but I'm not willing to pay japanese prices...

The key factor why Shinki leather it is more expensive than others, the tanning process they use is... t---i---m---e---consuming (time is $$$ these days).

Edit: A chrome-tanning process takes hrs/days... a combine chrome/veg tan process e.g. used by Horweens chromexcel takes 28 days... an italian veg tan leather takes weeks but the veg tan process used by shinki tannery takes months (up to 15-18).

 

[58panheadfan]

Detail shoot from a FW Jacket made from "Rude Black"* Shinki Horsehide to show why so many Shinki-Lovers are around...

Of course the "bling-bling" appearance isn't everyone's taste




click to enlarge

* I was asking FW about their black shinki horsehide they used, here's the answer:

"We're making a few kind of 'Black' color in our lineup of horse leather
jacket.

The first one is 'Rude Black'. For a start, dye the leather Dark Gray color, and dye it again Black from the surface and the back side. We call it 'Rude Black'. The second one is 'Vintage Black'. Dye the leather Dark Brown color, and dye it again Black in the same way as Rude Black. 'Vintage Black' is like it. The third one is 'Blackjack', dye the leather Red Brown color, and dye it again black from the surface. 'Blackjack' is it."

Edit: As you can see also the dyeing process is very time-consuming. They dyed it twice! Not sure if it's dyed thru but FW answer indicates it's over dyed which mean the very base dye is a light brown base as usual when leather is veg-tanned. I don't know what kind of black top coat* was used... semi-aniline or pigment finish. If the top coat is more than 0,15 mm, it should declared as pigment finish. If I remember correctly, somewhere I read it is a pigment finish...

*Depending on what kind of top coat was used, influences the gloss level... it's also possible to add some matting stuff at the pigment finish to get a satin finish.

Sorry for hijack this SB-thread with FW Stuff... my intention only was, to share some knowledge about Shinki (Horsehide) Leather

 

[zebedee]

Blackjack, obviously.

 

[Edward]

If you spend a lot of time in bars don't get heavy leather. You'll have to take it off and someone will steal it. I have had this happen a few times. I spent a lot of time in bars over the years. A lot. I recommend a vintage Brooks cafe racer. You can get a good one for under $200 and it will last you years. Light characterful steer hide and much cooler looking than the vintage inspired reproof cafe racers, no matter who makes them.

Frankly, I'd be more inclined to stop hanging out in places where that level of theft goes on than I would to limit my choice of hide to s jacket I can / have to keep on inside all the time!

 

[jacketjunkie]

Frankly, I'd be more inclined to stop hanging out in places where that level of theft goes on than I would to limit my choice of hide to s jacket I can / have to keep on inside all the time!

Theft happens everywhere. As it's said, opportunity makes thieves. Even at the very rich people's parties, events and places to be, stuff gets stolen all the time. And stealing isn't the only thing, they may get dirty, fall on the floor (or you fall on the floor, stranger things have happened in bars), someone spills beer over it or god fordbid, you have two tequilas too much and forget it on your way home. For all those reason I have beater jackets whose loss wouldn't annoy me too much that I take out for these occasions.

 

[58panheadfan]

... And stealing isn't the only thing, they may get dirty, fall on the floor (or you fall on the floor, stranger things have happened in bars), someone spills beer over it or god fordbid, you have two tequilas too much and forget it on your way home. For all those reason I have beater jackets whose loss wouldn't annoy me too much that I take out for these occasions.

Ha, ha, ha... these bad times... that's not for me anymore... age before beauty

 

[Woodyear]

Detail shoot from a FW Jacket made from "Rude Black"* Shinki Horsehide to show why so many Shinki-Lovers are around...

Of course the "bling-bling" appearance isn't everyone's taste


View attachment 88925
View attachment 88926
click to enlarge

* I was asking FW about their black shinki horsehide they used, here's the answer:

"We're making a few kind of 'Black' color in our lineup of horse leather
jacket.

The first one is 'Rude Black'. For a start, dye the leather Dark Gray color, and dye it again Black from the surface and the back side. We call it 'Rude Black'. The second one is 'Vintage Black'. Dye the leather Dark Brown color, and dye it again Black in the same way as Rude Black. 'Vintage Black' is like it. The third one is 'Blackjack', dye the leather Red Brown color, and dye it again black from the surface. 'Blackjack' is it."

Edit: As you can see also the dyeing process is very time-consuming. They dyed it twice! Not sure if it's dyed thru but FW answer indicates it's over dyed which mean the very base dye is a light brown base as usual when leather is veg-tanned. I don't know what kind of black top coat* was used... semi-aniline or pigment finish. If the top coat is more than 0,15 mm, it should declared as pigment finish. If I remember correctly, somewhere I read it is a pigment finish...

*Depending on what kind of top coat was used, influences the gloss level... it's also possible to add some matting stuff at the pigment finish to get a satin finish.

Sorry for hijack this SB-thread with FW Stuff... my intention only was, to share some knowledge about Shinki (Horsehide) Leather

I'm certainly among the Shinki lovers here, it's a beautiful leather and the one that I plan to get my next jacket in. The overdye leathers are the "teacore" leathers I was referencing, really beautiful stuff. However the one Simmons Bilt gets is neither of those three teacore leathers you mentioned, it's straight black dyed all the way through unfortunately or I'd have likely already ordered. I just insist that if I'm getting a semi aniline or pigmented leather that it at least be an overdye or "teacore" so that the wear and patina over time can still come through.

 

[Edward]

Theft happens everywhere. As it's said, opportunity makes thieves. Even at the very rich people's parties, events and places to be, stuff gets stolen all the time. And stealing isn't the only thing, they may get dirty, fall on the floor (or you fall on the floor, stranger things have happened in bars), someone spills beer over it or god fordbid, you have two tequilas too much and forget it on your way home. For all those reason I have beater jackets whose loss wouldn't annoy me too much that I take out for these occasions.

Oh, sure, plenty of possibilities there and you always need to be sensible, but all the same, there does come a point where you just have to say dammit and just wear the jacket andnot worry too much or you'll end up never enjoying it....

 

[oskar]

When i go out I will defenetly not take my jacket off. But I dont understand you. You want to have a jacket with a beautifull patina but are afraid to take it to places where those memories are created.

 

[technovox]

I'm certainly among the Shinki lovers here, it's a beautiful leather and the one that I plan to get my next jacket in. The overdye leathers are the "teacore" leathers I was referencing, really beautiful stuff. However the one Simmons Bilt gets is neither of those three teacore leathers you mentioned, it's straight black dyed all the way through unfortunately or I'd have likely already ordered. I just insist that if I'm getting a semi aniline or pigmented leather that it at least be an overdye or "teacore" so that the wear and patina over time can still come through.

Thanks for the info on Simmonsbilt Shinki. As I'm finding out- not all Shinki is the same. Personally, I prefer the "teacore" as well.

 

[zebedee]

Someone get a picture of that blackjack leather, pls. I just had an idea...

 

[Seb Lucas]

When i go out I will defenetly not take my jacket off. But I dont understand you. You want to have a jacket with a beautifull patina but are afraid to take it to places where those memories are created.

Yep. When I was drinking I got jackets covered in beer, vodka, food and smoke. I slept in them. I swam in a pool in them. I wore them in scuffles. I don't think it did the jackets any harm. But it sure did me no good.