Simmons Bilt jacket advice

[AllanP]

I'm actually also in the process of finalizing a jacket with Debs. I am just a bit stumped on size as well. I don't have a well fitting leather jacket for reference. I am sending her measurements of a well fitting denim jacket, i wonder if that throws things off considering the difference in materials. Also I can only wear a t-shirt under the denim jacket, I wonder if leather jackets are suppose to have a looser fit.

 

[jacketjunkie]

Leather jackets are not generally supposed to be a looser fit. It's a taste thing and a style thing. Many leather racer jackets are very tight while casual styles are more loose because that's more comfortable to wear. Denim is more flexible than new leather which will be stiff when new so tight leather jacket will be more uncomfortable at least. Also keep in mind that leather is a thick and difficult to work with material, so SB allows for 0.5" allowance at the measurements which may or may not result in the leather jacket being even a bit tighter than the denim one. Generally, a denim jacket is a good starting point though cut-wise.

 

[Asaha]

I'm actually also in the process of finalizing a jacket with Debs. I am just a bit stumped on size as well. I don't have a well fitting leather jacket for reference. I am sending her measurements of a well fitting denim jacket, i wonder if that throws things off considering the difference in materials. Also I can only wear a t-shirt under the denim jacket, I wonder if leather jackets are suppose to have a looser fit.

I know how confusing this is even if you know your measurements. I think for your first jacket you need trust the maker. Also as jacket junkie said, typ of jacket determine the fit as well as cafe racers will be more tight fitting compared to civilian jacket.
I tried different companies leather jacket and saw their size guides for initial understanding of fit.

 

[Asaha]

So Debs was kind enough to came back to me which her suggestion and she suggested to go with size 38 and it has the pit to pit 21" which in my best fitting jacket is 20.5". Back and arm length were little off but she said it can be altered.
She also gave this measurement :
Waist at bottom hem: 20” (does anyone know what this means?)

 

[Harris HTM]

So Debs was kind enough to came back to me which her suggestion and she suggested to go with size 38 and it has the pit to pit 21" which in my best fitting jacket is 20.5". Back and arm length were little off but she said it can be altered.
She also gave this measurement :
Waist at bottom hem: 20” (does anyone know what this means?)

yes, this is really important if you have a beer belly as me. With the jacket laid flat on a table measure the bottom side, along the hem.
For example the Schott 618 perfecto size 38 has a 21'' pit to pit and 19'' waist sweep which means that I can barely zip mine up but I love it so much to give it away.
Which leather did you finally choose?

 

[Asaha]

yes, this is really important if you have a beer belly as me. With the jacket laid flat on a table measure the bottom side, along the hem.
For example the Schott 618 perfecto size 38 has a 21'' pit to pit and 19'' waist sweep which means that I can barely zip mine up but I love it so much to give it away.
Which leather did you finally choose?

Ahh I see. Then it seems to be good fit.
I have little bit gut going on good to have some extra room.
For leather I am still leaning towards horween cxl brown, just because I have read they age very well. My ideal jacket is this new jacket 20yr down the line. Is it too much of a fantasy?

 

[Harris HTM]

Ahh I see. Then it seems to be good fit.
I have little bit gut going on good to have some extra room.
For leather I am still leaning towards horween cxl brown, just because I have read they age very well. My ideal jacket is this new jacket 20yr down the line. Is it too much of a fantasy?

No, I think that it can go 20 years. Keep in mind that SB offers chromexcel steerhide but no chromexcel horsehide; their horsehide is not chrome excelled but chrome tanned, not sure what the difference is though.

 

[Asaha]

No, I think that it can go 20 years. Keep in mind that SB offers chromexcel steerhide but no chromexcel horsehide; their horsehide is not chrome excelled but chrome tanned, not sure what the difference is though.

yes, cxl steer hide. From what I gathered, HH sounds like very stiff and uncomfortable to start with. I have heard lot about Shinki HH and SB offer lighter (1.2mm) HH than Horween Steer(1.4mm), but they are a bit pricey.

 

[Harris HTM]

yes, cxl steer hide. From what I gathered, HH sounds like very stiff and uncomfortable to start with. I have heard lot about Shinki HH and SB offer lighter (1.2mm) HH than Horween Steer(1.4mm), but they are a bit pricey.

I think that initially both chrome steer and horse are stiff, I have only handled CXFQHH (aero) but people say that chrome steer softens easier. As for shinki, this is veg tanned, a completely different story.

 

[Carlos840]

So Debs was kind enough to came back to me which her suggestion and she suggested to go with size 38 and it has the pit to pit 21" which in my best fitting jacket is 20.5". Back and arm length were little off but she said it can be altered.
She also gave this measurement :
Waist at bottom hem: 20” (does anyone know what this means?)

20" bottom hem is what i aim for and i have a 33" waist.

 

[jacketjunkie]

My father has a SB jacket made from their Horween Horse and while he's okay with it, I feel like it's very stiff and breaking in much slower than my Aero CLX Horse. Due to that I would recommend you to go with SBs Steerhide which other members around here have made a good experience I think or try their Clayton/Shinki.

Edit: The chocolate brown Shinki and the dark brown Clayton are the ones I personally would consider, were I to order another SB.

 

[Asaha]

My father has a SB jacket made from their Horween Horse and while he's okay with it, I feel like it's very stiff and breaking in much slower than my Aero CLX Horse. Due to that I would recommend you to go with SBs Steerhide which other members around here have made a good experience I think or try their Clayton/Shinki.

Edit: The chocolate brown Shinki and the dark brown Clayton are the ones I personally would consider, were I to order another SB.

Everyone loves Shinki and they are considerably light compared to other HH i suppose. But to make it in budget i might go with cxl steer.

 

[Asaha]

I got bunch of mid weight leather swatches from SB today in Brown and obviously no CXL Steer as I didn't know 1.4mm isn't mid weight.

But, I am surprised by the Blattwerk HH, they are soft as sheepskin. Has anyone got one? I don't know how they age. So I am to ask between Shinki Chocolate/HorweenCXL Steer Brown(I now know its heavy) and Clayton Vintage Veg, which one would you recommend?

 

[ProteinNerd]

20" bottom hem is what i aim for and i have a 33" waist.

Yu also need to take into consideration how long the jacket will be and where it will "sit" or finish in relation to your waist or hips.

My waist measurement is quite a bit smaller than my hips so if I get a jacket sized to my waist but it comes down to my hips it won't fit.

 

[jacketjunkie]

I got bunch of mid weight leather swatches from SB today in Brown and obviously no CXL Steer as I didn't know 1.4mm isn't mid weight.

But, I am surprised by the Blattwerk HH, they are soft as sheepskin. Has anyone got one? I don't know how they age. So I am to ask between Shinki Chocolate/HorweenCXL Steer Brown(I now know its heavy) and Clayton Vintage Veg, which one would you recommend?

Can only tell you no one has posted a Blattwerk jacket here yet and the leather is fairly new so no one will be able to tell you how it ages. It's interesting to hear how soft it is, though. After all it's 1.2mm+ too, which is quite substantial. (1.2mm = 3 oz, 1.6mm = 4 oz) Try and scrap it and see how the leather looks if the topcoat comes off. I use to experiment with leather samples to get a feeling for the thing. Try to rub off color etc.

Regarding which leather to choose: Not taking into consideration the cost, I would always pick Shinki out of the bunch. It's widely considered top tier leather, most of the very high end leather makers use it, such as Himel, Good Wear and a number of Japanese brands.

That being said, you do nothing wrong here picking the Horween steer. Horween is a well established tannery and there is plenty of people in this forum who made good experience with their stuff.

Clayton is a fairly unknown leather because it's a SB only thing and not many people have ordered a jacket in that leather yet or at least didn't post pictures here. When I was at the factory, I favored the other leathers color-wise but that's a very personal question of taste. If you like the color of the sample; why not. It's less stiff than Horween stuff initially is, so that's a good thing.

In the end, choosing the leather is like choosing chocolate bars. All of them taste well and you can still get the others next time.

 

[ProteinNerd]

The info on SB website specifies it's Shinki Hikaku Horse, does anyone know if this is different to the Shinki the other makers use?

 

[Asaha]

Yu also need to take into consideration how long the jacket will be and where it will "sit" or finish in relation to your waist or hips.

My waist measurement is quite a bit smaller than my hips so if I get a jacket sized to my waist but it comes down to my hips it won't fit.

I like my jacket to sit on just at my belt line. And with 20" bottom hem, i think it would give me enough room.

 

[Asaha]

Can only tell you no one has posted a Blattwerk jacket here yet and the leather is fairly new so no one will be able to tell you how it ages. It's interesting to hear how soft it is, though. After all it's 1.2mm+ too, which is quite substantial. (1.2mm = 3 oz, 1.6mm = 4 oz) Try and scrap it and see how the leather looks if the topcoat comes off. I use to experiment with leather samples to get a feeling for the thing. Try to rub off color etc.

Regarding which leather to choose: Not taking into consideration the cost, I would always pick Shinki out of the bunch. It's widely considered top tier leather, most of the very high end leather makers use it, such as Himel, Good Wear and a number of Japanese brands.

That being said, you do nothing wrong here picking the Horween steer. Horween is a well established tannery and there is plenty of people in this forum who made good experience with their stuff.

Clayton is a fairly unknown leather because it's a SB only thing and not many people have ordered a jacket in that leather yet or at least didn't post pictures here. When I was at the factory, I favored the other leathers color-wise but that's a very personal question of taste. If you like the color of the sample; why not. It's less stiff than Horween stuff initially is, so that's a good thing.

In the end, choosing the leather is like choosing chocolate bars. All of them taste well and you can still get the others next time.

Here are the samples for Blattwerk Torf, Blattwerk Dark Brow(though it looks black) and Shinki chocolate brown

I don't know if u can tell, but it's very soft leather and already looks vintage,however the brown color looks very dull in real life.
Shinki as it looks gorgeous.
Is the weight substantial between 1.2mm and 1.4mm jacket?

 

[handymike]

Shinki-Hikaku is the Shinki tannery's full name, and if you are looking for a fantastic mid-weight horsehide it is hard to beat. Horween's steerhide is also lovely, but heavier stuff In my experience. I currently have boots and a belt made of it.

 

[AllanP]

I actually received some Clayton Horsehide from SB 2 weeks ago in Burgundy. It's definitely thinner and more pliable than the Horween Sample. The burgundy was really bright, and had a lot of pull-up. I kind of dismissed it because I thought it was too bright of a color for a jacket, at least for me.

I am going to go with the Shinki Chocolate for my jacket, it just stood out to me, it had lot more grain than I thought it would, it has a shinier top coat compared to the rest. It is a tad stiffer than the Clayton which I like.

I will say though that the SB Shinki feels different than the Shinki on a RMC I felt at a local store. The RMC was smoother with less noticeable grain and an almost waxy top coat.

Just from pictures the Shinki sample looks most similar to the "medium brown horse" hide Himel offers. But then again from what I've read Himel and JC gets their Shinki done to their individual specifications.
https://himelbros.com/pages/gallery