shrinking aero anyone?

[Monitor]

So, how about those Knicks?

 

[pawineguy]

Pawineguy, we get that according to you any speculation suggesting that the way the leather was tanned may have had a connection to it shrinking is inadmissible on account of Horween posting a page to explain their CXL tanning techniques.

But with respect sir, in the open and inquisitive minds of educated members I suspect your objection to this line of speculation is more inadmissible in this debate than the speculation itself is, on account of there being no possible way for you to substantiate this die hard belief of yours that Horween are somehow beyond reproach. The leather on this jacket has shrunk. Not just this leather, other leather on other jackets from the same place has too.

Granted, it doesn't say so on that page from Horween that you hold so dear, but I think we are pretty much all agreed here that leather is not supposed to shrink. My understanding on this is that the industry standards, which align closely with the US military's, state that the leather should not shrink below temperatures of 97 degrees Celsius.

Perhaps rather than telling us what it definitely isn't down to, you might advance a suggestion or two on what it possibly could be down to? Because that it has shrunk is a stone cold fact

I don't hold anything from Horween to be dear... but again, just as you posted something out of context from Horween (you have noted that the image was sent to you by a 3rd party), the poster above has done the same, and hadn't even taken the 20 seconds to do a quick Google search and find the tanning method of CXL. To call these "educated" speculations is a VERY loose interpretation of the word. As an example, just as you didn't look to see what the image was you were posting, and then incorrectly stated that toggle drying "stretched" leather out, this poster ignored in the same article where it discusses pollutants and their role in shrinking leather. Now, I don't think you wearing the jacket in a polluted area has anything to do with whatever loss of length you have experienced, but if we were making "educated" guesses we'd be looking at all possibilities.

In respect to Horween, perhaps it's the fact that I own my own company, or that I just am partial to these types of family run operations who've managed to survive against long odds, but publicly speculating that they are cutting corners on their leather production and lying about it... that's a bit much for me. Since you well know that air drying CXL is a publicly touted virtue of this product, speculating that they have stopped doing it but don't want us to know is a very serious charge. As is the idea that they forgot how to tan leather and ruined an entire batch, leading to hundreds of shrinking jackets.

If I had come on here and just stated "I think Schitzo got the thing soaking wet, dried it with a hair dryer and doesn't want to admit it", what would your reaction have been? Based on your previous posts I don't think you would have taken it very well.

 

[zhz]

I don't hold anything from Horween to be dear... but again, just as you posted something out of context from Horween (you have noted that the image was sent to you by a 3rd party), the poster above has done the same, and hadn't even taken the 20 seconds to do a quick Google search and find the tanning method of CXL. To call these "educated" speculations is a VERY loose interpretation of the word. As an example, just as you didn't look to see what the image was you were posting, and then incorrectly stated that toggle drying "stretched" leather out, this poster ignored in the same article where it discusses pollutants and their role in shrinking leather. Now, I don't think you wearing the jacket in a polluted area has anything to do with whatever loss of length you have experienced, but if we were making "educated" guesses we'd be looking at all possibilities.

In respect to Horween, perhaps it's the fact that I own my own company, or that I just am partial to these types of family run operations who've managed to survive against long odds, but publicly speculating that they are cutting corners on their leather production and lying about it... that's a bit much for me. Since you well know that air drying CXL is a publicly touted virtue of this product, speculating that they have stopped doing it but don't want us to know is a very serious charge. As is the idea that they forgot how to tan leather and ruined an entire batch, leading to hundreds of shrinking jackets.

If I had come on here and just stated "I think Schitzo got the thing soaking wet, dried it with a hair dryer and doesn't want to admit it", what would your reaction have been? Based on your previous posts I don't think you would have taken it very well.

I am not saying that the Horween change the way of tanning the leather, what I am saying is, is it possible that this is just a small batch of leather that does not meet the standard?

 

[pawineguy]

I am not saying that the Horween change the way of tanning the leather, what I am saying is, is it possible that this is just a small batch of leather that does not meet the standard?

According to an earlier post, nearly 100 jackets were made with this batch of leather.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Man, whether someone has posted twice, ten times or one hundred is irrelevant.
An educated person can read the entire post, without weighing in and understand the commentary from all involved.

Why do you have to take such a harsh & personal tone to many who have contributed?

You keep asking your questions and have yet to receive an answer that you are satisfied with. That's fine, but why jump down the throat of anyone who has a differing opinion to yours? I am not merely referencing your response to my post above either.

A clearly defined stance? interesting assumption on your behalf. Actually no, I do not. I am considering right now investing in one of these great horeshide jackets from Scotland and do have an interest.

You've interpreted my post as a 'hurry up'. Yet you readily admit this has been done before now by others. Why is this I wonder?

"which in case you missed it in the 29 pages " & "There is a video on here for you to look at before answering." &"My inkling is, NO, you won't want to dwell on it either..". Again with the accusatory tone, why? This does nothing to enhance your postion nor solicit a willingness to assist.

I have read every single post, seen each picture & even watched your home vid. I do agree that a reasonable person would expect that the natural creases in an elbow would reduce the overall length by a small amount. I also agree that the creases in the back of your jacket appear unlikely to have absorbed the claimed shrinkage. So what? That's my thoughts & this doesn't get you any further down the track to an outcome.

"my posting style is the product of this environment".
If you are unhappy with the responses people are offering freely in a publc forum, then I suggest that you either reconsider posting in the first place, or engage with the respondents in a different manner.

Don't you think that if there was a difinitive answer to your question, it would have most likely been found by now?

And as for being new here, that does not preclude me from owning several great jackets & wishing to continue to contribute to a great, supportive group who have a shared interest & up till now have been welcoming of new members.

I do wish you well in your endevour to find a response that you are satisfied with.

Dan..
Schitzo's responses to you actually has little to do with your 'newness' here. That is just something that he can use since you seem disagreeable. The berating..belittling..lecturing happens in practically every thread or poll that Schitzo posts. Scolding others has become the biggest part of his process as he has noticed that he can and does get away with it. Matters not who you are,how well liked,how reasonable,or how many posts you have accumulated. If you fail to keep quiet (as he suggests) the next step in his exercise of language is to 'up' the insults. He does somewhat eloquently still manage to play others who somehow become involved in his threads,but woe to those who just don't measure up to his standards. It seems this happens because a schitzo thread can start out innocently enough drawing others in but soon develops into quite something else that he enjoys much more than the topic at hand. He has done quite well in this attempt by successfully dragging out and delaying what would seem to be the gest of his problem. That will be saved for the opportune time to start anew the same procedure with very similar effect. Solving any problem with the jacket is secondary to the game he plays. All one must do is read his responses to others to discover the game. Nothing new here.
HD

 

[schitzo]

I don't hold anything from Horween to be dear... but again, just as you posted something out of context from Horween (you have noted that the image was sent to you by a 3rd party), the poster above has done the same, and hadn't even taken the 20 seconds to do a quick Google search and find the tanning method of CXL. To call these "educated" speculations is a VERY loose interpretation of the word. As an example, just as you didn't look to see what the image was you were posting, and then incorrectly stated that toggle drying "stretched" leather out, this poster ignored in the same article where it discusses pollutants and their role in shrinking leather. Now, I don't think you wearing the jacket in a polluted area has anything to do with whatever loss of length you have experienced, but if we were making "educated" guesses we'd be looking at all possibilities.

In respect to Horween, perhaps it's the fact that I own my own company, or that I just am partial to these types of family run operations who've managed to survive against long odds, but publicly speculating that they are cutting corners on their leather production and lying about it... that's a bit much for me. Since you well know that air drying CXL is a publicly touted virtue of this product, speculating that they have stopped doing it but don't want us to know is a very serious charge. As is the idea that they forgot how to tan leather and ruined an entire batch, leading to hundreds of shrinking jackets.

If I had come on here and just stated "I think Schitzo got the thing soaking wet, dried it with a hair dryer and doesn't want to admit it", what would your reaction have been? Based on your previous posts I don't think you would have taken it very well.

mate, for the very last time I passed on somebody else's speculation and made as much abundantly clear on more than one occasion..The speculation came from a qualified and non malicious source, so let's just leave it at that. I have made it very clear that I personally do not think this explanation is the answer, and am not seeking to slander Horween in any way. If you would just stop bringing them up we could shut up about Horween, who to the best of my knowledge are doing a great job, and treat their customers with respect!

Concerning context, and what I originally said, it seems you are still confused. At this point I think advising you to re-read my words would be worthless, but you may like to look up devils' advocate and think on. Possibly, you and I just do not understand one another and are not going to, so perhaps we could both agree to end the repetition here

Concerning other angles, yes, if you want to throw any out there, please do. All suggestions are welcomed and I agree that all possibilities should be considered. Concerning drying the leather with a hair dryer, no I have not ever tried that, and having been reading posts on here for a good few years nor would I. But if you had have wanted to ask me the question to rule out the possibility, instead of framing it as an accusation, then in those circumstances I would have been happy to answer, if only to rule out this line of enquiry. Sure, it's not what happened, and I don't think you think it is either - but you are entitled to have that thought, as you are to voice it on here if you think it can help to move the debate forwards. Let's be cleat Pawineguy, you and I may well disagree but I respect your right to your own opinion and to post whatever you like because I do not doubt that you are a stand up guy with no hidden agenda to look after - the same as me

 

[schitzo]

Dan..
Schitzo's responses to you actually has little to do with your 'newness' here. That is just something that he can use since you seem disagreeable. The berating..belittling..lecturing happens in practically every thread or poll that Schitzo posts. Scolding others has become the biggest part of his process as he has noticed that he can and does get away with it. Matters not who you are,how well liked,how reasonable,or how many posts you have accumulated. If you fail to keep quiet (as he suggests) the next step in his exercise of language is to 'up' the insults. He does somewhat eloquently still manage to play others who somehow become involved in his threads,but woe to those who just don't measure up to his standards. It seems this happens because a schitzo thread can start out innocently enough drawing others in but soon develops into quite something else that he enjoys much more than the topic at hand. He has done quite well in this attempt by successfully dragging out and delaying what would seem to be the gest of his problem. That will be saved for the opportune time to start anew the same procedure with very similar effect. Solving any problem with the jacket is secondary to the game he plays. All one must do is read his responses to others to discover the game. Nothing new here.
HD

lol

Hello HD. I've been waiting for this moment to arrive and for educational purposes I am pleased to see it finally has.

 

[zhz]

According to an earlier post, nearly 100 jackets were made with this batch of leather.

Also, as I said, it is possible that not all the owner of these jackets aware the shrinkage, and they may not on the forum etc...so, as I said, it is my suspect. And it has nothing to do with the general quality of the Horween. As a matter of fact, I still believe they are one of the top leather tanner.

 

[handymike]

HD, let everyone have a little fun!
Maybe we CAN figure out something in the process.
This place has gotten a bit dry since MajorMajor, Butte, and Andy F have stopped posting. There is only so much back-patting I can take about Aero Moto jackets ;-)
(you know who you are, guys).

I think Schitzo has a point- If you don't want to play ball on our field, go find another thread to spend your time on.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

handymike
I don't think my post has dissuaded anyone from a having little fun in this thread. If there are those that enjoy sparring with schitzo then I'm sure they will still feel free to continue. I have no intention of playing ball on this thread one way or the other. Laying out my impressions in a matter of fact way was simply not to beat around the bush about what is really going on. I'm sure some others realize the same. However..the new guy seemed like he may have needed more info to save further effort in dealing with someone who has no qualms about jumping down anyone's throat (as he calls it) without any sense or intention of welcoming courtesy.
HD

 

[Monitor]

I agree with handymike that the place has gotten a bit uneventful lately but seriously, where the hell is this thread going? What's the point? What are you hoping to achieve?
Even if the thread reaches 10,000 pages and we figure out exactly why the jacket had lost half an inch - something that I don't see happening, judging from the course that the discussion has taken in the last ten pages - it still won't change a damn thing. Schitzo would still need a remake and there isn't anything anyone else can do to prevent it from happening again.

What, you think Horween will suddenly jump in with promises never again to stretch dry their leather, followed by Aero offering everyone ever a remake that most definitely, positively will not shrink, ever? Hell, they've done it once already, so why not again? It would be only fair, right?

At the very end, does it truly matter? Jackets shrink. Jackets stretch. Jackets get creases. Who cares. We ain't that good looking to begin with, half an inch sure as paint won't make no difference either way you look at it.

It's a painfully dumb thread. Let it die.

 

[pawineguy]

Also, as I said, it is possible that not all the owner of these jackets aware the shrinkage, and they may not on the forum etc...so, as I said, it is my suspect. And it has nothing to do with the general quality of the Horween. As a matter of fact, I still believe they are one of the top leather tanner.

There was something you saw in the photos or video that led you to suspect the jacket was not tanned properly?

 

[schitzo]

It's a painfully dumb thread. Let it die.

stated as fact, when of course this is merely one opinion among many which differ wildly.
But OK Monitor, we all get what yours is now and if that is what you think and that is what you want to happen, then I guess you and I will be having our next catch up on another thread.

There was something you saw in the photos or video that led you to suspect the jacket was not tanned properly?

That's not at all what he said. You've even pasted what he did say, so there can be no doubt. This question is spurious and does not deserve to be dignified with an answer

 

[pawineguy]

I agree with handymike that the place has gotten a bit uneventful lately but seriously, where the hell is this thread going? What's the point? What are you hoping to achieve?
Even if the thread reaches 10,000 pages and we figure out exactly why the jacket had lost half an inch - something that I don't see happening, judging from the course that the discussion has taken in the last ten pages - it still won't change a damn thing. Schitzo would still need a remake and there isn't anything anyone else can do to prevent it from happening again.

What, you think Horween will suddenly jump in with promises never again to stretch dry their leather, followed by Aero offering everyone ever a remake that most definitely, positively will not shrink, ever? Hell, they've done it once already, so why not again? It would be only fair, right?

At the very end, does it truly matter? Jackets shrink. Jackets stretch. Jackets get creases. Who cares. We ain't that good looking to begin with, half an inch sure as paint won't make no difference either way you look at it.

It's a painfully dumb thread. Let it die.

Nooooo!!!! We are so close to the answer! This toggle dried, ph imbalanced leather must be exposed!

 

[pawineguy]

stated as fact, when of course this is merely one opinion among many which differ wildly.
But OK Monitor, we all get what yours is now and if that is what you think and that is what you want to happen, then I guess you and I will be having our next catch up on another thread.




That's not at all what he said. You've even pasted what he did say, so there can be no doubt. This question is spurious and does not deserve to be dignified with an answer

I do know what he said, I'm trying to understand what led him to decide that it was the ph in the tanning process? What led him there? Or did he just go on Wiki and decide that it would become his guess? I'm trying to point out the absurdity of these random theories.

 

[nick123]

Now that we're discussing allegiances, here's my take. I'd say let people continue acting the way they do. As a reader, not once has the defense of Aero or other brands ever bugged me. I just chalk it up as a person who for whatever reason, is caught up in a love of their brand. Most of the time the overkill posts are funny. I doubt anyone is infuenced in a buying decision based on one person's continual love or hate affair. It's more entertainment than anything I think. There are some people with vivid personalities on here, and it's to be cherished. It makes this place fun.

Where the line is crossed is where a customer talks down other brands just for the sake of talking them down. Schitzo isn't doing that. He's genuinely baffled and I don't think he's out to harm anyone. Rather, he's trying to seek answers to a situation while simultaneously giving what he feels a dignified heads up to members about his experience. That's not a comfortable endeavor to embark on either. There's possibly a little bit of unecessary vile added, but I think he's been pretty level headed given his circumstance. I'd personally leave it there, as there are too many loose threads and possibilities at play here to accuse Aero of any WILLFUL wrongdoing. But that's me and me only.

Now, it's up to each and every person to take what he/she feels useful from this.

 

[Monitor]

stated as fact, when of course this is merely one opinion among many which differ wildly.
But OK Monitor, we all get what yours is now and if that is what you think and that is what you want to happen, then I guess you and I will be having our next catch up on another thread.

Schitzo, I apologize if my post came across too personal. That wasn't my intention.

What I meant by dumb is that the thread's gone bad. What I said earlier still stands - your problem is legit and I want you to see you having it resolved to your satisfaction no less than you do, because I still don't think your jacket should've shrunk - and if it's a normal thing, you should've been warned about it - but the fact is, we ain't getting closer to a solution, are we? Nothing that will come of this thread will have any affect on your next jacket, or your 10th jacket. That's a fact.
The way this thread's gone, people arguing over literally nothing, is what's saddens me, is all.

 

[handymike]

Oh...almost forgot...Welcome to the Lounge Dan_T!

Now, Back to the game!!!!!

 

[schitzo]

It's Ok Monitor I'm not taking it to heart and have had far worse.

At this point in proceedings I think a gentle reminder is in order:
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/show...rt-and-protect-all-our-great-members-in-here)

FWIW, like any other this thread will inevitably reach it's natural conclusion when the people interested in discussing the topic are no longer interested in discussing the topic. When that time arrives is anyone's guess, but i think it a reasonably safe bet that it isn't going to be accelerated by the people who claim to be disinterested coming on and telling those who are that it's time to pack up and go home because there's nothing left to talk about! Do you all dig? We're grown men with our own minds, and this after all is a forum for people with shared interests to discuss them freely. Those that are not interested are welcome to their disinterest. Please, rest assured guys, nobody is going to come and find you and tell you that you have to be interested. By that same token, will the disinterested please stop telling the interested that they need to be disinterested. Such actions I think are not in the spirit of this house.

I'm turning in. Good night chaps. Let's keep it gentlemanly.


For the interested only, fit pics coming soon

 

[Monitor]

Fit pictures is something I'm very interested in.