shoes: oxford and derby

[herringbonekid]

i see a lot of misuse of the term 'oxford' when describing shoes, sometimes even by shoe sellers themselves, so in the interests of accuracy here is a brief reminder:

an oxford (a 'closed-laced' shoe) has 'quarters' (the bit with the eyelets on) which come together in a straight line and are stitched UNDER the 'vamp' (the bit that creases when your foot bends).

a derby (an 'open-laced' shoe) has quarters which spread out at the bottom and are sewn OVER the vamp.

the combination of features such as wingtip, cap-toe, brogueing etc does not affect the name of the shoe as these can be found on both oxfords and derbys.

oxfords are characteristically english and are thought of as the more elegant shoe.
derbys have their roots in hungary and vienna, and are a tad more robust-looking than the oxford.


oxford:

derby:

 

[Marc Chevalier]

The "derby" is also widely known as a "blucher", named after the Prussian marshall Gebhard Leberecht von Blucher (1742-1819), whose forces played a key role in defeating Napoleon at Waterloo. Apparently, Blucher wore a similar pair of boot-shoes. Incidentally, British wellingtons (or "wellies") -- rubber boots -- are named after the Duke of Wellington.


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[Zach R.]

I've noticed this as well, pretty much every shoe that laces-up (that isn't a tennis shoe), people automatically call an oxford.

 

[Brad Bowers]

I see the term "balmoral" used in regards to shoes. Can you define it? I suppose it comes from the castle in Edinburgh.

Brad

 

[herringbonekid]

according to my source book 'handmade shoes for men' published by konemann, the balmoral was originally a high oxford boot made for prince albert in the middle of the 19th century for a holiday at balmoral castle.

 

[Matt Deckard]

It's a really good book and break down of the inside of shoes. I bought it a few years back in a Book store in old town Pasadena.

Worth owning for any shoe lover.

 

[Brad Bowers]

Thanks for this thread, herringbonekid. I've been searching for bargains on dress shoes for the day if/when I finally get a job interview. I see these terms bandied about with abandon, and figure most folks don't know what they really mean, and as I don't really know, I'm at a loss. I just know what I like in a shoe:cool2:

I'll keep an eye out for that book, Matt.

Brad

 

[pablocham]

no so cut and dried?

I think that this might depend on which side of the atlantic you call home. In the U.S. all non boot lace up shoes are called oxfords, but we call those with a closed vamp balmoral (which you call an oxford), and those with an open vamp blucher (what you call a derby).

I don't think that people using the term oxford for all lace-up shoes are necessarily wrong; it is just a linguistic difference created by unfortunate positioning of the Atlantic ocean and by our thoughtful and timely rejection of servitude to the unsavory George III.

 

[Vladimir Berkov]

Balmoral now refers to what you call an "oxford." Balmoral is simply a close-laced shoe like that spectator shoe.

 

[GHT]

I see a lot of misuse of the term 'oxford' when describing shoes, sometimes even by shoe sellers themselves, so in the interests of accuracy here is a brief reminder:

In the diagram that herringbonekid posted the difference between the two shoes is very subtle but when you see real Oxfords, there's no mistaking them. How I love the name of the colour of these Oxfords that I bought from Colin Johnson: "Racing Green," and cream of course.

 

[Harris HTM]

of these Oxfords that I bought

I'd call them Derbies to be honest.

 

[Edward]

Yes, I think @GHT 's lovely shoes are derbies; an Oxford would have the bottom of the laced area sewn down, like this:

When it sits up loose at that end on both sides as on those Johnsons, they're derbies. Derbies were traditionally more casual (at least for those who could afford to care about such differences), but these days pretty much any leather shoe without an obvious trainer-type sole is considered 'dress'.

I've had many of both over the years myself, and TBH I've never honestly noticed any difference purely in terms of comfort or wear. If you put them on me blindfolded I doubt I'd ever notice a difference all other things being equal.

 

[Wolf99]

Yes, it all has to with whether the lacing is ‘closed’ (as on the Oxford examples) or ‘open’ (for Derbies) - so GHT’s are Derbies, but no less swish for that.

I am puzzled by the fact that some seem to regard the Oxford as the more formal or stylish type of shoe. Both ways of lacing can be used for fairly rugged shoes and boots and both can look very elegant. I’ve seen it suggested that Derbies are inappropriate for black tie, for example- which is odd because there are 1930s ads from Simpson’s on the Strand for patent leather evening shoes with open lacing.

 

[Harris HTM]

am puzzled by the fact that some seem to regard the Oxford as the more formal or stylish type of shoe.

I think this has to do with the fact that an oxford has a sleeker profile. But I do wear my derbies with suits and ties.

 

[Edward]

I think this has to do with the fact that an oxford has a sleeker profile. But I do wear my derbies with suits and ties.

I think there is something to that. Of course, it's also easy to forget that dresscodes were not always set in stone, and even in the thirties era when black tie had finally coalesced into an identifiable thing there would have been variations and fashion fads. Whether it comes from the fact that so many people get into vintage via military uniforms first (where there is, objectively, 'right' and 'wrong') or whether it's just the nature of hobbyists to seek hard and fast rules, or an unconscious carrying on of the u/non-u mentality that many such 'rules' were designed to serve, who can say.... but I think there's an awful lot of 'rules-based' thinking being retro-actively imposed on the past at times in a way that doesn't really reflect what people actually wore.

 

[GHT]

Yes, it all has to with whether the lacing is ‘closed’ (as on the Oxford examples) or ‘open’ (for Derbies) - so GHT’s are Derbies, but no less swish for that.

Derbies are new to me, the only derby or darby, is the American term for the bowler hat. Out of curiosity I Googled, men's derbies and this fabulous photo popped up.

It comes from an amazing album, here for your perusal