Sellers Guide for Dress Hats on Ebay

[Andykev]

ASK AWAY

******

You are also absolutely right about asking the right questions.

Perhaps you'd care to make a list of what you normally ask the sellers as we can educate the buyers in our group too.

John, I usually ask questions about damage to the felt, such as mothing or stains..remember that the sweat, liner, and the ribbon can be replaced. If the hat body is quality, you are ahead (pun intended) of the game. You just have to figure aobut the cost of the auction vs. the mad bidding frenzy that often happens.

You then have to educate the seller about the SIZE, suggesting they peek under the sweat for the manufatcurers "reorder" label. Some sellers give hat measurements like 6" X 8 1/2". Which is useless. You have to tell them all about the math in Pi, the 3.1415929, and how inches are divided to convert to size....blah blah blah. All the while, they cannot be guranteed to accurately measure the sweatband. So, you take your chances.

Usually you can tell by how good or bad the photos are.

And some sellers seem happier with the box than the hat. Guess they think we wear the box on our head!!!!

 

[Andykev]

Hi ho, Hi ho, the seller just don't know.....

************
They will always be the ethically challenged, crooks, fakers, liars and cheats, what can you do? This Ebay system is imperfect, but most of the time it works.

Oh NO, this dear woman was totally honest and offered to fully refund my money, including shipping. She just thought the hat looked wonderful, and she wouldn't know a moth divot from the cup hole on the 18th green! THEY JUST DON"T KNOW.

That is why you just have to ASK. and ASK for a better pic, and ASK about smells or stains.....ASK what size hat they wear, and then they try on the hat. I bought a TOP HAT that the seller promised was a 7 3/8...well, it was a 1/8. Again they happily refunded my money. I think MOST Ebayers are honest. but remember, despite the "internet" it is nothing more than a big fat garage sale.

 

[Andykev]

Polite

Oh and I posted answers to John in Covina before reading this entire thread. Eh..hem! As I clear my throat. Some of you are getting a bit personal and fftopic:

 

[Marc Chevalier]

The process of earning a Ph.D. apparently involves learning how to take concepts that could be clearly and plainly explained and loading 'em down with so much jargon and obscure asides that they end up about as clear as mud and plain as a banana split.

For those who have learned it, jargon saves time. Instead of using ten "normal" words to describe a very specific, field-related concept, I can use one "jargon" word. Every profession uses jargon. Either take the time to learn the terms and expressions, or be content with what is written for a lay audience.

Now, let's get back on topic and back to hats.

 

[Katt in Hat]

I Know Nothing!!!

Drastically shortened post:

John, I agree with you about what's desirable - and I think Katt would agree that I provide that info in my auctions.

I'm Kidding, I'm Kidding...(SNL)


"Biltmore Green Fedora, Size 7 1/4

Mint condition, in Hatbox!

This is a Biltmore fedora in dark green color. This hat was new when purchased, and I have only worn it twice...so it needs a new owner to enjoy it! It comes in the Biltmore hatbox in which it arrived.

This hat is absolutely mint condition, as new! The Biltmore line is made in Canada, and as you can see from the tag inside the hatband, the original retail was $72 a few years ago. This hat is no longer available in Biltmore's current line.

The felt is a plush material with visible nap, as you can see from pictures. It's not as "fuzzy" as the Tyrolean-style hats, though. The felt is quite substantial in thickness, but has a nice soft feel due to the plush finish. The brim is slightly oval, as you can see from the top shot showing the box. Brim width is 2 1/4 front and back, tapered to 2" wide on the sides.The hat can be worn as a fedora with the front brim down and back brim up, or you can snap the brim down all around (this is the current configuration, although I show pictures in fedora mode.) The hat's crown is about 5" tall at the highest point.

The styling is contemporary on this hat, the feather is a beautiful accent, and if you are looking for a nice dark green fedora with real style, this is the one to go for. Right now, in this price range Biltmore makes a better hat than Stetson (sorry to say) and this is a well-made, solid hat that will last a lifetime.

A reminder: to keep this hat as nice as it is now, always pick up and handle a good hat by the brim!

Features:

This is an accurately sized 7 1/4 size hat.
Sweatband is imprinted in gold: "Biltmore".
The tag behind the sweatband says Arcade - Portoverde - BDF3565 - $72.00.
The liner is in absolutely lovely, clean and new shape with no sign of wear.
The feather is from the factory and provides a beautiful accent.
This hat is distinctive, unusual and smart looking.
Can't you just see yourself topping off a casual outfit with this snappy dark green Biltmore? Just visualize the feel of this creamy-soft felt between your fingers as you pick up the brim on each side, lift the hat up and tug it confidently down on your head before stepping out the door. You will look and feel like a million bucks walking confidently..."

Pilgrim said it all and I took the bait...

Seething and very gruntled. Katt fftopic:

My Actual Feedback: Heard things about 100% positive seller. Here's my ++FB B4 he even mails hat.
Follow-up Feedback: Beautiful Green hat arrived in 2 days! Comes Next St. Patrick's Day, I'm ready.

 

[tonyb]

For those who have learned it, jargon saves time. Instead of using ten "normal" words to describe a very specific, field-related concept, I can use one "jargon" word. Every profession uses jargon. Either take the time to learn the terms and expressions, or be content with what is written for a lay audience.

Now, let's get back on topic and back to hats.

Point taken, Marc. We certainly use our share of hat-specific jargon here. I just don't like stuff that reads like it is exclusionary by design, as though that is the real point of it. Really, though, I like most academics.
I gotta second Andykev's observation about sellers playing up the box. They must think there's more interest in it than the hat. (In some cases, there very well may be, I suppose.) I can't count the number of times I've read descriptions about what a great item of decor that vintage box is and, almost as an aside, that there happens to be a hat that goes with it. Just a couple of days ago an auction for an Open Road-like Knox, a 7 1/8, ended without a single bid. Had I been near the computer at the time, I would have snagged it. And yes, the seller's photos and description left me thinking he or she must have considered that octagonal box more valuable than the hat.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Point taken, Marc. We certainly use our share of hat-specific jargon here. I just don't like stuff that reads like it is exclusionary by design, as though that is the real point of it.

I agree with you, Tonyb. Jargon can be useful, but some bad writers go overboard with it in order to camouflage the mediocrity of their arguments. There's an old t-shirt saying: "If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bull." lol


I wonder: could there be buyers out there who are more interested in hat boxes than in hats?


.

 

[tonyb]

I wonder: could there be buyers out there who are more interested in hat boxes than in hats?.

There's gotta be, Marc. Maybe those of us who hang out here think of hat obsession as NORMAL, when in all probability the larger world would think we're a touch, well, touched.
There's no way to verify this, but I'd guess there are probably more people interested in kitschy/funky decor than vintage hats. If that's so, then it would follow that old hat boxes might attract more interest than the hats that came in them. I find it telling that, when I type in a search for, say, "Knox hat," I usually find a few Knox hats, a bunch of old Knox magazine ads, and several Knox boxes. I deliberately sought out one of those oval, silver-colored Stratoliner boxes and didn't choke on paying 16 bucks for it, which is more than I've paid for some truly fine old hats.

 

[John in Covina]

Guide for Ebayers.

I have tried to copy paste this into the buying guides section on ebay but it say something about "html" and won't go in. I really hate to have to re-type the whole thing. I think it hate the " for inches thing too.

Men’s Dress Hats, Questions for the Seller & Buyer!

There are a variety of styles of hats that fall under the category of Men’s Dress hats. The most famous is the FEDORA, which has wide latitudes and parameters for dimensions yet still falls under the description. Your best bet is to do some research visiting online stores to get a good description and look at pictures to match up with the hat you’re selling. Still, “Fedora” is a much misused term with sellers calling all sorts of men’s hats, a ‘fedora’ that are not. HOMBURGS are also in the mix and are similar to a fedora but the especially the brim and sometimes the crown are shaped differently. BOWLERS, DERBIES, TOP HATS, PORK PIES, ALPINE and STINGY BRIMS round out usual men’s dress hats.

First off, the best of these hats are made of fur felt, either: beaver, rabbit or a blend of both. Occasionally, you may find an exotic fur used in the felt. If you are positive of the content, please list it, exotic fur felt can be quite desirable. Also, there are some well made hats that contain synthetic materials that were blended with real fur to make the felt. The dress hat has a relative in Western hats, both using fur felt bodies to make the hat. Western hats often have different beaver contents are noted as X’s, with the idea that more x’s are better felts. Although wool felt hats can be well made and serviceable, fur felt is generally noted as a better quality.

The quality of the felt may allow for cleaning and re-blocking plus re-sizing sometimes but these are moderate to expensive restorations when done by professionals. The cleaning and restoration of hats were once available in most towns and cities. Now there are only a small number of hatters and shops prepared to do this work. Amateurs should consider many repairs in the realm of pros only, unless they have many hats to practice on to get the experience. Some defects are not repairable or extremely difficult to do such as holes or divots in the felt. Holes can come from too much improper handling and the dreaded “moth bites.” Moth larva may munch on the felt creating small holes and divot like tracks along the surface of the felt. Moth flakes or cedar should be utilized in the storage area to keep these destructive pests away from your quality hats. Any holes or divots need to be described and shown in photos if possible. Dirt, dust, stains, smudges, or damages to the surface again must be described and shown in photos. Dust and dirt may be cleaned by a knowledgeable person, but should not be done by the untrained as the felt can be quickly and irreversibly damaged. Spots and stains are not always removable and again should be noted and photographed.

Smells or odors should be noted, most can be removed by cleaning, airing out or if the hat is placed in a bag with a box of baking soda like the refrigerator odor removal type for about a week. Don’t get that baking soda on the hat though!

Always try to show pictures of the details of the imprints on the sweatband and the liner. Careful checking under the sweatband may reveal tags with codes that are of interest to the collector. The style of crests and such can often be used to find the era of manufacture. Occasionally an actual date may be revealed and that is good detective work to the delight of the collector. Be sure to include all of the liner, sweatband imprints and tag information in your written description! Be as accurate and honest in your description. If you can do “macro” or close up pictures of these details that clearly show them all the better, it will help sell the hat.

Take clear and focused pictures from every conceivable angle: outside: top, bottom, front back and both sides. Inside: close-ups of any imprints and details. The box, if you have a box, can be generic or specific to the hat or totally unrelated, describe and photograph separately. Also try to describe the colors of the hat as it doesn’t always show correctly on the computer monitor. Fuzzy pictures are a detriment and a headache.

Measurements and dimensions are critical to a men’s hat so be prepared to measure! Describe the Crown & give height front and rear. Describe the brim, as to the WIDTH. Does it curve up or down or both? Please measure from the base of the crown, at or near where the bottom of the ribbon or band is, and out to the edge. Also note as some hats are wider at the front and the rear than the sides, you may wish to measure all of these sections to be sure.

Good pictures of the ribbon and the bow are essential too! Also the edge of the brim maybe worked in a variety of ways such as raw, bound, stitched, folded and pressed all of which are of interest to the collector or user.

Even if you find a size tag, old hats tend to shrink so double check the ACTUAL SIZE of a hat! Please, measure the CIRCUMFRENCE of the hat, INSIDE, all the way AROUND the SWEAT BAND in inches to nearest fraction of an inch. If you do not have a cloth tape measure, then use a piece of string and read measured string against tape measure or yard stick. Here is a conversion chart for converting Inches to US sizes:

INCHES US Size Metric
21” = size 6-5/8 = 53 cm
21-1/2” = size 6-3/4 = 54 cm
21-3/4” = size 6-7/8 = 55 cm
22” = size 7 = 56 cm
22-1/2” = size 7-1/8 = 57 cm
22-3/4” = size 7-1/4 = 58 cm
23” = size 7-3/8 = 59 cm
23-1/2” = size 7-1/2 = 60 cm
24” = size 7-5/8 = 61 cm
24-3/8” = size 7-3/4 = 62 cm
24-7/8” = size 7-7/8 = 63 cm
25-1/8” = size 8 = 63 cm

Also the size tag may mention a shape type like LONG OVAL which is a specific shape to match a head shape. This is key information to be listed!

A good, complete, and accurate description, noting all the details, along with clear pictures will bring you a better chance for a good sale.

In the ITEM TITLE you should consider first listing the following:
STYLE, MAKER, MODEL, COLOR, SIZE and then some sales pitch.
These first five items will help more to sell the hat by allowing the collector find your treasure quickly and easily.

Example: Fedora Stetson Playboy Grey 7-7/8 Film Noir very clean!

Again, the more details in your write up you can accurately list the better the chance to sell. And the more accurately you describe the hat including faults the more likely you will NOT have an angry customer looking to return the hat as misrepresented in the listings.

If you don’t know the actual age of the hat then don’t guess unless you care to expound on why you think it is of a certain age. Many hats made in the 60’s and later are listed erroneously as much earlier manufacture, style does not always indicate age.

Damaged hats may be restorable, our hatters can do some remarkable and rather astonishing restorations but they are labors of love, time consuming and of great expense. That said, rare and desirable models may suggest a complete rebuild to revive a notable hat.

Collectors may be looking for certain specific details which are always good to publish in the Question and Answer area to help all the buyers, it is not privileged information.

Happy selling and good luck with your hat auction.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

John, your suggestions above are EXCELLENT. The highest compliment I can pay you is this: I will use your suggestions as my guide when I sell more vintage fedoras on eBay this Sunday!

 

[John in Covina]

John, your suggestions above are EXCELLENT. The highest compliment I can pay you is this: I will use your suggestions as my guide when I sell more vintage fedoras on eBay this Sunday!

** Thanks.
Need to add something about "wind trollies" but I don't know much about them. They were called a variety on names too. I believe they are a button in the hat with a string or cord that attached to a button on the men's shirt, acting as a leash so it wouldn't blow away and be lost.

 

[Naphtali]

On eBay, as everywhere else when you buy via remote viewing, buy the seller not the item.

The only non-positive transaction information that does not disqualify a seller is a dispute regarding payment -- that is, nothing amiss with the item. Something amiss with the buyer.

 

[John in Covina]

Made some changes.

:eusa_doh:
Version 3 Small changes and additions.

Men’s Dress Hats, Questions for the Seller & Buyer!

There are a variety of styles of hats that fall under the category of Men’s Dress hats. The most famous is the FEDORA, which has wide latitudes and parameters for dimensions yet still falls under the description. Your best bet is to do some research visiting online stores to get a good description and look at pictures to match up with the hat you’re selling. Still, “Fedora” is a much misused term with sellers calling all sorts of men’s hats, a ‘fedora’ that are not. HOMBURGS are also in the mix and are similar to a fedora but the especially the brim and sometimes the crown are shaped differently. BOWLERS, DERBIES, TOP HATS, PORK PIES, ALPINE and STINGY BRIMS are the usual suspects that round out those normally found in men’s dress hats.

First off, the best of these hats are made of fur felt, either: beaver, rabbit or a blend of both. Occasionally, you may find an exotic fur used in the felt. If you are positive of the content, please list it, exotic fur felt can be quite desirable. Also, there are some well made hats that contain synthetic materials that were blended with real fur to make the felt. The dress hat has a relative in Western hats, both using fur felt bodies to make the hat. Western hats often have different beaver contents are noted as X’s, with the idea that more X’s are better felts. Although wool felt hats can be well made and serviceable, fur felt is generally noted as a better quality.

The quality of the felt may allow for cleaning and re-blocking plus re-sizing sometimes but these are moderate to expensive restorations when done by professionals. The cleaning and restoration of hats were once available in most towns and cities. Now there are only a small number of hatters and shops prepared to do this work. Amateurs should consider many repairs in the realm of pros only, unless they have many hats to practice on to get the experience. Some defects are not repairable or extremely difficult to do such as holes or divots in the felt. Holes can come from too much improper handling and the dreaded “moth bites.” Moth larva may munch on the felt creating small holes and divot like tracks along the surface of the felt. Moth balls or flakes or even cedar blocks should be utilized in the storage area to keep these destructive pests away from your quality hats. Any holes or divots need to be described and shown in photos if possible. Dirt, dust, stains, smudges, or damages to the surface again must be described and shown in photos. Dust and dirt may be cleaned by a knowledgeable person, but should not be done by the untrained as the felt can be quickly and irreversibly damaged. Spots and stains are not always removable and again should be noted and photographed.

Smells or odors should be noted, most can be removed by cleaning, although just a good an airing out may work. Failing that the hat may be placed in a big plastic bag with a box of baking soda like the refrigerator odor removal type for about a week. Don’t get that baking soda on the hat though!

Always try to show pictures of the details of the imprints on the sweatband and the liner. Careful checking under the sweatband may reveal tags with codes that are of interest to the collector. The style of crests and such can often be used to find the era of manufacture. Occasionally an actual date may be revealed and that is good detective work to the delight of the collector. Be sure to include all of the liner, sweatband imprints and tag information in your written description! Be as accurate and complete in your description as you can. If you can do “macro” or close up pictures of these details that clearly show them all the better, it will help sell the hat.

Take clear and focused pictures from every conceivable angle: outside: top, bottom, front back and both sides. Inside: close-ups of any imprints and details. The box, if you have a box, can be a generic hat box or a box that is specific to your hat or in can be totally unrelated. Still , describe fully and accurately and photograph, list the box information and photos at the end of the ad. Try to describe the colors of the hat and the box, as color pictures doesn’t always render correctly on the computer monitor. Fuzzy pictures are a detriment and a headache, and buyers often feel it is a ploy to try to hide defects. Also do not clutter the picture with other items or try to be artsy. Try to use a plain background such as a solid light colored blanket, table cloth or sheet. Sometimes you can prop up a hat to effectively show the curl of the brim. Try to refrain from cutesy posing like using the dog or your toddler with the hat, it distracts and detracts from the hat. By concentrating on the hat in your description and photos, you do the buyer a big favor.

Measurements and dimensions are critical to the style and size of a man’s hat so be prepared to measure! Inches with fractions works best but metric can be worked out for most buyers. Describe the Crown & give height front and rear. Describe the brim, as to the WIDTH. Does it curve up or down or both? Please measure width from the base of the crown, at or near where the bottom of the ribbon or band is, and out to the edge. Also note, some hats are wider at the front and the rear than the sides, you may wish to measure all of these sections to be sure.

Good pictures of the ribbon and the bow are essential too! Also the edge of the brim maybe worked in a variety of ways such as raw, bound, stitched, folded and pressed all of which are of interest to the collector or user. Sometimes you may find a button with a string or cord attached to the hat. This is referred to as a Wind Trolley, and by other names. It attached the hat to the man to keep it from being blown away and lost.

Even if you find a size tag, note that old and unworn hats tend to shrink, so you should double check and list the ACTUAL SIZE of a hat! Please, measure the CIRCUMFRENCE of the hat, INSIDE, all the way AROUND the SWEAT BAND in inches to nearest fraction of an inch. If you do not have a cloth tape measure, then use a piece of string and read measured string against tape measure or yard stick. Here is a conversion chart for converting Inches to US sizes:

INCHES US Size Metric
21” = size 6-5/8 = 53 cm
21-1/2” = size 6-3/4 = 54 cm
21-3/4” = size 6-7/8 = 55 cm
22” = size 7 = 56 cm
22-1/2” = size 7-1/8 = 57 cm
22-3/4” = size 7-1/4 = 58 cm
23” = size 7-3/8 = 59 cm
23-1/2” = size 7-1/2 = 60 cm
24” = size 7-5/8 = 61 cm
24-3/8” = size 7-3/4 = 62 cm
24-7/8” = size 7-7/8 = 63 cm
25-1/8” = size 8 = 63 cm

Also the size tag may mention a shape type like LONG OVAL which is a specific shape to match a head shape. This is key information to be listed!

A good, complete, and accurate description, noting all the details, along with clear pictures will bring you a better chance for a good sale.

In the ITEM TITLE you should consider first listing the following:
STYLE, MAKER, MODEL, COLOR, SIZE and then some sales pitch.
These first five items will help more to sell the hat by allowing the collector find your treasure quickly and easily.

Example: Fedora Stetson Playboy Grey 7-7/8 Film Noir very clean!

Again, the more details in your write up you can accurately list the better the chance to sell. The more honestly and accurately you describe the hat including faults, the more likely you will NOT have an angry customer looking to return the hat as misrepresented in the listings. Collectors may be looking for certain specific details which are always good to publish in the Question and Answer area to help all the buyers. It is not privileged information, you as the seller, should use all information at your disposal to help collectors find and select your hat.

If you don’t know the actual age of the hat, don’t guess, unless you care to expound on why you think it is of a certain age. Many hats made in the 60’s and later are listed erroneously as much earlier manufacture, style does not always indicate age.

Damaged hats may be restorable, our hatters can do some remarkable and rather astonishing restorations but they are labors of love, time consuming and of great expense. That said, rare and desirable models may suggest a complete rebuild to revive a notable hat. Even a damaged or dirty hat can be worth listing.

Happy selling and good luck with your hat auction.

 

[Mobile Vulgus]

What Words Would You Have Ebay Ban?

Time to vent…

OK, I am still fairly new to this fedora subject on ebay but I've noticed a few description words that I'd love ebay to ban from the fedora category.

Of course, the main word is the same word that should be banned for EVERY ebay sale, not just fedoras…

"Rare"

If I had a penny for every time the lie "rare" was included in an ebay description I' be a millionaire.

But here are a few others:

"Indiana Jones" … sorry, but they just ain't!
"Michael Jackson".. ditto
"Unisex"… uh, no.
"Pimp Hat"… please.
"Leather"… sorry, but NO respectable fedora wearer would buy a leather "fedora."
And how about "Zoot Suit"… that one is a laugh.
Then there's "gangster"… idiotic.

And while we are at it, how come you can't exclude sellers in your search? Can we ban the seller zhor50 that sells all those idiotic trilbys in all sorts of ridiculous colors? You can search BY seller, but you can't search excluding one and that sucks.

So, what words would you guys wish you could ban?

 

[Mr Vim]

Favorite sayings I hate?

"gangster" Everyone was a gangster back then?

"Mad Men" I didn't realize the show took place from the 30's until the 90's.

"good vintage condition" This can bloody well mean anything!

"A few nips" The thing is bleeding trashed, start it at .99 and be glad if someone takes it off your hands.

"l@@K" I blame this nonsense on the text-ing generation.

 

[Yeps]

"l@@K" I blame this nonsense on the text-ing generation.

As a member of the texting generation... blame someone else. That is very difficult to do texting. Heck, I am too lazy to use numbers, spelling them out is often quicker.

 

[Qirrel]

l@@k!!!!!1111!1!!1!AMAZING SUPER VINTAGE NEW RARE+++++++++++++++++

I could make a long list, but i think the above illustrates my point better.

 

[The Good]

There's really only one word that absolutely bothers me, and that's "Emo." Emos are more about their crazy hairstyles anyway, and not felt hats... I've yet to run across a picture of, or see an emo in person wearing a fedora.

 

[HarpPlayerGene]

I'm not big on the banning of any words. But I do get a kick out of some of the nonsense that surfaces in free society.

 

[Lefty]

Not a ban, but some sort of "are you sure about that one?" pop-up for "rare".