Schott 618hh. The good, the bad, and the ugly.

[01flhr]

 

[01flhr]

The one lapel snap got pretty boogered up during the slide. I can barely get the snap buttoned. I think over the winter im going to send it in and see if they can fix the shoulder padding where the stitching got ripped out. I may see if i can get them to take an inch out of the length. I wish it were a fuzz shorter but they absolutely nailed the arms and shoulders which i usually have a hard time with. My vanson hardcore was so tight through the forearms i was almost losing circulation. The guys at langlitz said my forearm dimensions are probably similar to popeyes. The worst of the damage was to my helmet. I cant express how glad i am i wear a full face helmet. Anyway, to my original point, there are alot of perfecto style jackets in that price range and a few that i would rather take a spill in. I know the langlitz are double (if not triple) stitched and i can say the same for bates but i cannot say i know this about schott or cal. Heavy leather alone does not make a good riding jacket. Most jackets are going to come apart at the seams as opposed to wearing through the hide. If i could say i knew the schott jacket were at least double stitched id say go for it. I know for sure that vansons have reinforced seams as well. I just cant vouch for the schott and thats what would make me leary of wearing one on a bike.

 

[roadking04]

Guppy, I would have to say a "power ranger" suit with full modern armor would probably be the safest. But , I don't think Marlon would've looked as cool. But then again, he was such a cool cat; if he would have worn one, we would probably call it a Brando suit.

01flhr, glad you were ok and thanks for the pics. The jacket really doesn't look that bad. I would maybe fix the snap and leave the rest as "earned" patina.

Ton, thanks for the weight comparison. I am really starting to second guess Schott. Especially if their product is not as advertised.

 

[roadking04]

From the info I could gather:

Lost Worlds uses a 4.0 oz Heavy horsehide, with lighter weights available

Vanson uses a 3.5 oz cowhide for their comp. weight

Aero uses a 3.0 oz cxl horween leather for their heavy horsehide

Langlitz no longer offer their heavy cowhide and their medium weight comes in at 3 oz

Schotts "claim" to use 3-3.5 oz for their horsehide.

Not sure what to do, I am starting to doubt Schott. I definitely don't want a flimsy jacket. I am getting worried the Schott might not survive a crash.

 

[jacketjunkie]

Maybe a Vanson Thunderbird then? Very similar design-wise but certainly a good bit heavier. Leather thickness won't matter too much in a crash though, all of these jackets will keep your skin safe in a slide, in a crash you'll be equally funked in any of them, so you may want to pick the one whichever you like best design-wise..

If you want a biking jacket, I'd rule out Aero and LW, these are repro jackets and look the deal, but won't be able to keep up with the functionality and range of motion of a real biking jacket such as from Vanson or Langlitz or a Johnson Leather who offer 4+ oz leather too...

You could also go for a used Cal Leather jacket from the bay if you want something heavy, these are made from actually ridicoulously thick leather.

 

[01flhr]

Are lost worlds jackets even motorcycle jackets? I know for certain aeros are not. I know lw looks the part as does aero. Vanson knows a thing or 3 about moto gear, id feel very safe in something of theirs if you fit something they have in stock or if you can find your size on the bay. Give bates a call and see what they have to say. Theyve told me repeatedly that they can do anything i want. Johnsons comes up alot here, id give them a call too.

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[ton312]

Are lost worlds jackets even motorcycle jackets? I know for certain aeros are not. I know lw looks the part as does aero. Vanson knows a thing or 3 about moto gear, id feel very safe in something of theirs if you fit something they have in stock or if you can find your size on the bay. Give bates a call and see what they have to say. Theyve told me repeatedly that they can do anything i want. Johnsons comes up alot here, id give them a call too.

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Having owned both this LW j23:

And many incarnations of this Vanson:

I can attest to the fact that they are both good riding jackets. I ultimately gave the edge to Vanson though. It just moved better on a bike and frankly felt more purposely built for it. The LW was great tho. It was entirely personal preference. Both are super solid riders.
My Aero j106 just doesn't move or feel like a true M/C jacket...despite being so insanely cool and my personal favorite. Johnson Leathers would be a very good choice too. I've only owned one Langlitz and it was a light/medium weight 70's jacket. It's not worth mentioning b/c it really doesn't compare to the Langlitz I've seen here. Any of these guys could get you better bang for your buck than a Schott, and that's not a knock on them. Just my opinion.

 

[01flhr]

I just got off the phone with cal and im waiting on a return call next week to find out their leather weight. The poor girl was only able to tell me between 3-5oz. Theyre a double rider but not perfecto style really but theyre saying they can do whatever i want as far as pockets. I had to ask if theyre motorcycle or motorcycle style. The response i got was that they are the original, everyone else copied them. I guess from this point with the great double riders available on the market how close do you want to be schott perfecto?

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[lospice1]

Have you checked out fox creek’s offerings? They make motorcycle specific jackets with armor pockets. I ride and have their Grayson(cafe) model and love it. They also have Brando
Versions as well. Nice people to work with as well.
Will


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[AeroFan_07]

01flhr sure glad you are ok after your asphalt experience! Earned those stripes indeed.

As to how much a jacket will protect, anything been discussed above will protect you a lot better on a bike than the shorts & t-shirt I see so many people riding with near my area. I will say that based off Schott's website and trying on several at a store in Seattle that I happened upon, I sensed they were made a little more for fashion than serious riding. However, just walk into a Harley Dealer sometime and try on their "specials"

Having spoken with Stuart at LW this week, he will make a jacket for you in anything between 3.0 - 5.0 oz FQHH. review each manufacturer's websites, and see what is offered. Turns out you can "upgrade" or switch up quite a bit on many products out there. Find what you like and go with it!

 

[SkyTurtle]

SkyTurtle, thanks for the opinion and pics. Your 618 looks cool with all the patches. If I end up with a Schott, I would opt for the stars. I am a little confused as to the thickness of the leather. I have a Vanson and it is 3.5oz cow. Schott lists their horsehide as 3-3.5oz. Wouldn't they both offer about the same protection, maybe even a slight edge to the horsehide for its tighter fibers/slide resistance?....

Thanks, roadking. Yeah, I got the stars from Jerri at Schott and installed them on my 618. That's why a lot of people mistake it for a 613 with extra snaps.

Thankfully, my experience with spills is limited and almost exclusively from third parties who have offed on track days where it's a fast hard slide for a short distance until you hit the grass or the kitty litter. But according to testimony the three most important components -- in order -- always seem to be armor, leather, stitching (so your "Power Ranger" comment is apt!).

I try to wear armor whenever I do longer, highway rides and I do have slip-on Leatt elbow guards that I'll occasionally used under a Vanson Manx or Thunderbird but around town I'm usually not armored.

I have no experience with the Schott horsehide but the steerhides just do not feel as heavy as Vanson's competition weight leather nor do they take nearly as long to break in. It literally takes me three full seasons to completely break in a Vanson comp weight. But once it's broken in it feels like a second skin.

The stitching on a Vanson just feels bulletproof. Period. Just don't get the same impression from my Schott. I once heard a rumor about Vanson's stitching. It's intriguing, but I can't verify its authenticity: Around the time Vanson was flirting with the factories in El Salvador, I heard/read that, when asked, someone at Vanson said it took a couple of years to learn the stitching techniques they use on their racing leathers and it was becoming harder and harder to find workers in the US willing to invest time to "apprentice" in such a technique before becoming technically competent. In other countries (such as El Salvador) though, there are plenty of craftsmen willing to do so. Could be true, could be well-crafted marketing lore. But tugging at a shoulder seam on a Vanson it's hard to argue.

MY BOTTOM LINES ON THE TWO:

SCHOTT
1 - True piece of American motorcycling history (they designed the first motorcycle jacket and bought the company that probably made Brando's jacket)
2 - Absolutely wonderful, helpful and knowledgeable people at the factory
3 - Great leather for looks and protection
4 - Excellent craftsmanship
5 - Outstanding customer service and will stand by their product
6 - If Schott were a car it would be a: BMW 3 Series
7 - The jacket I'd want to be wearing in any photograph featuring me

VANSON
1 - Made in USA
2 - Polite people who always seem too busy to talk
3 - Tough leather that ages beautifully
4 - Consistently outstanding craftsmanship
5 - Customer service is hit-or-miss; I prefer third parties like Thurston Bros. or my BMW dealership
6 - If Vanson were a car it would be a: Humvee
7 - The jacket I'd want to be wearing in any accident featuring me

 

[roadking04]

Thanks guys for all the opinions and experiences, they are greatly valued. Ton, thanks for the pics. I agree with the Vanson opinions, nobody can say they are not true motorcycle jackets. I was turned off from Vansons customer service. To me, their comp weight leather never really seems to gain any character and their styles seem a little off to me. I keep going back to their highwayman and I haven't ruled them out.

Lospice1, thanks. I agree with your opinion on Foxcreek. I have their buffalo nickel vest. Very well made, But you have to like naked cowhide. I am actually thinking of getting their riding pants soon. I almost ordered them before and they quit making them. They just brought them back.

Very well put Skyturtle, I like your comparison, especially point number 7!!!

My buddy went down about a month ago. He was going about 40-45 mph when he hit the pavement and slid. He was in a generic, mall grade leather, not sure of the name, maybe from JP cycle. The jacket survived with major scuff marks and abrasions, but no holes or tears. He was banged up a bit, but ok. His major injury was to his butt. It shredded his levis and gave him some pretty good road rash to his behind.

 

[Monitor]

One other thing; Aero's full action back is great on a bike. The J106 I've had was a really good and comfortable motorcycle jacket. It's a whole different cut from the MC jacket but... It's also a good alternative to consider. Maybe, just maybe they could do a standard Perfecto front with a full action back, based on a J106 design. Again, great jacket on a bike.

 

[ton312]

One other thing; Aero's full action back is great on a bike. The J106 I've had was a really good and comfortable motorcycle jacket. It's a whole different cut from the MC jacket but... It's also a good alternative to consider. Maybe, just maybe they could do a standard Perfecto front with a full action back, based on a J106 design. Again, great jacket on a bike.

Very true. The full action back makes ALL the difference. The gussets are purely there for optics. Aero full action back works, as it should.

 

[Luca Brasi]

My Lost Worlds Speed Demon is a Great Motorcycle Jacket.

 

[Luca Brasi]

 

[The dogs bollocks]

Maybe a Vanson Thunderbird then? Very similar design-wise but certainly a good bit heavier. Leather thickness won't matter too much in a crash though, all of these jackets will keep your skin safe in a slide, in a crash you'll be equally funked in any of them, so you may want to pick the one whichever you like best design-wise..

If you want a biking jacket, I'd rule out Aero and LW, these are repro jackets and look the deal, but won't be able to keep up with the functionality and range of motion of a real biking jacket such as from Vanson or Langlitz or a Johnson Leather who offer 4+ oz leather too...

You could also go for a used Cal Leather jacket from the bay if you want something heavy, these are made from actually ridicoulously thick leather.

Nonsense!
Aero is certainly ‘real’ biker jacket and a good deal higher in quality than Vanson. Vanson are good...no better. I have 3 of their jackets and they are just somehow bland. The Langlitz is another good step up from Vanson. I have the HH Columbia and the quilted version. Great Jackets. Recently , got a Steerhide Aero. This by far is the highest quality serious biker jacket I have ever seen. It weighs a ton , perfect design and will withstand a nuke.
The Aero is just simply the best. I wish
I’d know earlier I could have circumvented the progression journey of Schott...Vanson...Langlitz...Aero.


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[The dogs bollocks]

Are lost worlds jackets even motorcycle jackets? I know for certain aeros are not. I know lw looks the part as does aero. Vanson knows a thing or 3 about moto gear, id feel very safe in something of theirs if you fit something they have in stock or if you can find your size on the bay. Give bates a call and see what they have to say. Theyve told me repeatedly that they can do anything i want. Johnsons comes up alot here, id give them a call too.

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What are you all talking about. Aero is without doubt a fully fledged serious Biker jacket. Having 2 Langlitz I thought I had arrived at the pinicle of Biker jacket quality and design.
A couple of weeks ago I stumbled across an. Aero Steerhide.

It is quite simply the heaviest , best designed and highest quality Biker jacket I have ever seen. Aero is certainly a very serious Biker jacket if not the very best!


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[The dogs bollocks]

Thanks, roadking. Yeah, I got the stars from Jerri at Schott and installed them on my 618. That's why a lot of people mistake it for a 613 with extra snaps.

Thankfully, my experience with spills is limited and almost exclusively from third parties who have offed on track days where it's a fast hard slide for a short distance until you hit the grass or the kitty litter. But according to testimony the three most important components -- in order -- always seem to be armor, leather, stitching (so your "Power Ranger" comment is apt!).

I try to wear armor whenever I do longer, highway rides and I do have slip-on Leatt elbow guards that I'll occasionally used under a Vanson Manx or Thunderbird but around town I'm usually not armored.

I have no experience with the Schott horsehide but the steerhides just do not feel as heavy as Vanson's competition weight leather nor do they take nearly as long to break in. It literally takes me three full seasons to completely break in a Vanson comp weight. But once it's broken in it feels like a second skin.

The stitching on a Vanson just feels bulletproof. Period. Just don't get the same impression from my Schott. I once heard a rumor about Vanson's stitching. It's intriguing, but I can't verify its authenticity: Around the time Vanson was flirting with the factories in El Salvador, I heard/read that, when asked, someone at Vanson said it took a couple of years to learn the stitching techniques they use on their racing leathers and it was becoming harder and harder to find workers in the US willing to invest time to "apprentice" in such a technique before becoming technically competent. In other countries (such as El Salvador) though, there are plenty of craftsmen willing to do so. Could be true, could be well-crafted marketing lore. But tugging at a shoulder seam on a Vanson it's hard to argue.

MY BOTTOM LINES ON THE TWO:

SCHOTT
1 - True piece of American motorcycling history (they designed the first motorcycle jacket and bought the company that probably made Brando's jacket)
2 - Absolutely wonderful, helpful and knowledgeable people at the factory
3 - Great leather for looks and protection
4 - Excellent craftsmanship
5 - Outstanding customer service and will stand by their product
6 - If Schott were a car it would be a: BMW 3 Series
7 - The jacket I'd want to be wearing in any photograph featuring me

VANSON
1 - Made in USA
2 - Polite people who always seem too busy to talk
3 - Tough leather that ages beautifully
4 - Consistently outstanding craftsmanship
5 - Customer service is hit-or-miss; I prefer third parties like Thurston Bros. or my BMW dealership
6 - If Vanson were a car it would be a: Humvee
7 - The jacket I'd want to be wearing in any accident featuring me

Ok...have to add my comments from experience.
Schott , today a fashion piece. Not in the same bracket as Vanson or the others. OK leather but poor furniture ie zips and belt. ( just look at the buckle)
Vanson , very good. They DO last well. They do NOT age well , by this I mean the leather stays fairly bland and does not adopt the character you’d hope for. Good middle f the serious biker jackets.

Langlitz, probably at the top of the US manufacturers...superb.

Best of all....Aero. Their steerhide and HH biker jackets are right up there and is one of the best serious biker jacket in the World...If not the best!


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[Monitor]

From the info I could gather:

Lost Worlds uses a 4.0 oz Heavy horsehide, with lighter weights available

Vanson uses a 3.5 oz cowhide for their comp. weight

Aero uses a 3.0 oz cxl horween leather for their heavy horsehide

Langlitz no longer offer their heavy cowhide and their medium weight comes in at 3 oz

Schotts "claim" to use 3-3.5 oz for their horsehide.

Not sure what to do, I am starting to doubt Schott. I definitely don't want a flimsy jacket. I am getting worried the Schott might not survive a crash.

None of this should be taken seriously anymore.

My Schott cafe racer is heavier than the last two Vanson jackets I have had, Model E and A, all of which were noticeably lighter than the last Aero in CXL FQHH I got. Ton312's Aero J106 is like 5 oz. Natal (or Walter Dyer) leather jackets that I have had were all over 7 oz. Go figure.
What I'm trying to say though is that none of those jackets are lightweight and 0.5 oz just won't make much of a difference in a crash.

Vanson makes a perfect motorcycle jacket. I love Langlitz and I love Aero but for a trip around the world on a bike, I would take a Vanson jacket, any Vanson jacket, without even considering the alternative.

@dogsbollocks - you're comparing a professional motorcycle racing apparel company that's been at it since the 70's, with a vintage reproduction clothes company. Aero makes a beautiful jacket, there's no debate there, a jacket that's definitely made with a better looking hide and a jacket that will even occasionally even out-weighs Vanson, but let's be realistic here.