Savile Row, in Cigar Aficionado

[scotrace]

The June '06 Cigar Aficionado carries a very fine article about the history of Savile Row and how it is changing (more RTW, etc.)

Worth picking up.

 

[Matt Deckard]

Sounds like one to buy... I'll stop buy Ralph's and see what's inside the cover.

 

[geo]

The article is interesting, but some of the most famous tailoring houses are not mentioned at all, for example Dege & Skinner or Andeson & Sheppard. Also not addressed is the practice of RTW retail stores that have nothing to do with tailoring and rent premises on Savile Row just to advertise their product as "Savile Row suits".

Anyway, what I think is really missing in the world is tailors that make a real tailored suit at an affordable price. SR tailors charge around 2000 pounds for a suit, and I don't think it's worth it, no matter how rich one is. The fabric does not cost more than the fabric of my Pakeman suits, and it takes 40 hours to produce a suit. I know that they pay astronomical rents, but that still does not justify the price. SR tailors cater to princes, sultans, and music and movie stars, and I think that's who they really are for, even though they try now to project a more open and friendly image. It wasn't the "stuffiness" that was driving customers away, it's the 2000 pounds price tag.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

... and it's the 2,000 pounds price tag that attracts customers who want to spend a lot of money. When you're rich, spending tons of cash makes you feel rich. It also shows others just how rich you are.

.

 

[scotrace]

Exactly

If price were an issue, they wouldn't have been around for 150+ years.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

Exactly.

 

[geo]

There's less and less of them around. There used to be tens of tailoring firms on Savile Row, and today there are maybe less than ten. Bigger firms are buying smaller firms, for example Davies bought James & James and others, and they are now all one firm. Huntsman has been going through financial troubles, Chester Barrie, although not a tailoring firm, has closed definitively, Norton & Sons is going through financial troubles and may be closing soon. Anderson and Sheppard has moved from Savile Row because of the high rents. There are a number of one-man operations that have started recently, but who knows how long they'll last. Also, their prices are lower than the prices of the established firms.

The thing is that the market is getting smaller and smaller for this sort of business, with good quality but grossly overpriced Italian RTW taking a big share of the same market. I believe that Savile Row attracts customers not only with money, but also with a certain taste. Customers who only want to spend 5000$ on a suit to show off, go to Kiton and pick up a suit off the rack. Those going to Savile Row have to wait for 2 months and go through 3 fittings before they can have their suit.

 

[Grimstar]

*snip* The fabric does not cost more than the fabric of my Pakeman suits, and it takes 40 hours to produce a suit. *snip*

Depending on the fabric, it can indeed cost more...sometimes, a lot more. Check out fabric manufacturer Scabal's "Gold Treasure" line, for an example. Vicuna can cost more than $100 dollars a yard. I have no idea how much the "Gold Treasure" is, but it has pinstripes in 22 karat gold...I'm guessing it's not inexpensive. Also, it can take more than 40 hours to make a suit, depending on the details. Anywhere from 60 to 80 hours is not unusual. Plus the time involved with fittings, etc. Bespoke can be worth it, if you have a reason to wear suits every day, if you really can't find anything that fits well enough RTW, if you just want something that fits flawlessly, if you want a suit that will look as good at the end of the day as it did when you put it on that morning...or one that will look as good in 6 years as it did the day you picked it up. For a good example of why it costs more, check out the "Anatomy of a suit" thread that I just posted.

 

[Dixon Cannon]

3 Savile Row

Back in '73 I visited Savile Row and stood outside while a white Rolls Royce was parked out front of #3. I still remember the license tag - EUC100C! Lord Nelson used to live there over a century ago. Never saw the occupant of that Roller though! -dixon cannon

 

[geo]

The 2000 pounds cost of a SR suit takes into account a normal English wool, Super 100's usually, which is exactly what Pakeman uses in their suits. Prices skyrocket if one wants more exotic fabrics. I know what goes in the construction of the suit, and I know that most of the work is not done on the premises, but by subcontractors such as coatmakers, trouser makers and vestmakers, based in the streets around SR. True bespoke is way superior to off the rack suits, but it's a pity that it's become a matter of money, not a matter of taste.

 

[Marc Chevalier]

... if you just want something that fits flawlessly, if you want a suit that will look as good ... in 6 years as it did the day you picked it up.

The wearer, alas, is often less perfect than the suit. He gains (or loses) weight, or his back begins to stoop. Suddenly, the suit must be altered.

.

 

[Grimstar]

The wearer, alas, is often less perfect than the suit. He gains (or loses) weight, or his back begins to stoop. Suddenly, the suit must be altered.

.

Very true...and a good custom suit can be altered...far more than off the rack can be, usually.

 

[wackyvorlon]

Frankly, I don't see $2,000 for a bespoke suit as being unreasonable. A quality suit can last a lifetime. Today, an average car is 16 to 20,000. This vehicle cannot be expected to last even ten years. The car, is equal in price to buying one bespoke suit annually for ten years! And yet, people who balk at spending this amount on a quality suit, do not do so when confronted with the price of an automobile.

 

[geo]

$2000 seems very reasonable for a bespoke suit, but the price of a SR suit is around 2000 pounds, not $2000. I saw the same mistake in an older issue of Cigar Aficionado, in an article that quoted $2800 for a bespoke suit at Gieves and Hawkes. The real price was 2800 pounds, around $5000.

 

[cameraderie]

White Rolls Royce EUC 100C

Back in '73 I visited Savile Row and stood outside while a white Rolls Royce was parked out front of #3. I still remember the license tag - EUC100C! Lord Nelson used to live there over a century ago. Never saw the occupant of that Roller though! -dixon cannon

This was John & Yoko's famous 1965 Phantom V. It is historically interesting that you recall seeing it in Savile Row in 1973, at least a year after they left England to live in New York. It is possible that Lennon gifted the white Phantom to Ringo, who later purchased Titenhurst Park from Ono & Lennon. For more about this fabulous limousine, please see: http://www.60x50.com/search/label/John Lennon

Eric Roberts
Brisbane Australia