Save Saville Row!

[old barnacle]

hmmm....A&F should be entered and sunk !

 

[AntonAAK]

I'm not aware of such zoning laws in England (though it's not my area by a long stretch). There are rules governing Conservation Areas, if the Row fell within one of those, but that relates only to preserving external appearances - I've seen a McDonalds set up in a Conservation Area.

Copied from a post on another forum (Maj Molesworth, Sheridan Club)

I suggest that Westminster's planners pay due regard to National planning policy and their own guidance when making the decision.

First, the opening paragraph of Section 12 to HMG's freshly minted National Planning Policy Framework states:

Local planning authorities should recognise that heritage assets are an irreplaceable resource and conserve them in a manner appropriate to their significance. In developing this strategy local planning authorities should take into account:

3 the desirability of new development making a positive contribution to local character and distinctiveness.

Meanwhile, Westminster Council have the following in their Local Development Framework 'Core Strategy' document:

Policy CS2: SPECIAL POLICY AREAS

Special Policy Areas are designated to protect and promote specialist uses and functions as follows:

Saville Row Tailoring

Reasoned Justification:

It is necessary to provide specific protection for the unique clusters of specialist uses which are central to Londons character and ensure these clusters are not eroded by pressure from other commercial uses. The detailed policies to protect and encourage these uses are in the City Management Plan.

 

[MisterCairo]

I'm not aware of such zoning laws in England (though it's not my area by a long stretch). There are rules governing Conservation Areas, if the Row fell within one of those, but that relates only to preserving external appearances - I've seen a McDonalds set up in a Conservation Area. There was at least at one time a rule built into any lease on Savile Row premises that a certain proportion of the premises had to be used for a workshop, i.e. the actual tailoring. No idea whether that's still in place.... and of course as the building in question has formerly been offices, I don't think those rules apply to it in particular any longer.

I recall this very building was the Beatles' Apple Corp. office. What was the reaction then?!

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Are A&F proposing to take over the premises of an established tailor's shop? This is the only situation under which I can see Westminster Council using the "strategy"/"policy [from these Tories? Give me a break!] framework" mentioned above.

Savile Row tailors aren't going anywhere soon. It's far too lucrative a business.

bk

 

[reetpleat]

Are A&F proposing to take over the premises of an established tailor's shop? This is the only situation under which I can see Westminster Council using the "strategy"/"policy [from these Tories? Give me a break!] framework" mentioned above.

Savile Row tailors aren't going anywhere soon. It's far too lucrative a business.

bk

ANd there is the rub. As long as they can maintain high rents there, it will be a damper on other businesses. But, on the other hand, in a free market, it is often the big chains that can afford to outspend most small local businesses. But then again, it is the market place that decides. If people do not value Saville row, and do patronize a and f and not saville row tailors, then the people have voted with their feet and dollars. So, my complaint, perhaps, is not with big corporations, or with zoning boards, but with the general public and their lack of values for things that I value.

In Seattle, a large coffee shop in the hip formerly gay now gay and hipster neighborhood, the most dense and vital in Seattle excepting the small downtown, will be closing next year as they have sold the building to a developer. It will displace a dozen cool small businesses and you know they will never be able to afford to come back. This coffee shop is a neighborhood living room, and the gateway to the neighborhood. i will be very sad to see it go, but not much can be done.

 

[Edward]

Ah, the evils of modern capitalism...

I recall this very building was the Beatles' Apple Corp. office. What was the reaction then?!

No idea.... They were beardy hippies by then, I think, but I believe they still often wore respectable suits. Not sure if they bought them on the Row, or whether that would affect opinion? Actually I could imagine Lennon in SR suiting.... for a guy who droned "imagine no possessions", he certainly liked to spend big on the best of the best...

 

[Tango Yankee]

=Progress is progress, and times change,

Times change, yes, but not all change is progress. Progress is generally defined to mean improvement, though there are those who try to claim that any change at all is "progress". Sometimes change is just change. Of course, as with many things, the difference between change and progress may be a matter of opinion. In the matter of A&F on Saville Row I'm sure that the senior leadership of the company will see it as progress for the company, while those on the Row itself will likely see it as change and not good change at that.

Cheers,
Tom

 

[herringbonekid]

Savile Row tailors aren't going anywhere soon. It's far too lucrative a business.

i'm not so sure Baron. i was reading over on the LL, that many of the SR tailors make very little profit because of all the high overheads. if their rent was doubled (which happens) some might go out of business.

...Not sure if they bought them on the Row, or whether that would affect opinion?

they did. On the cover of Abbey Road all but George are wearing suits by the late Tommy Nutter, who at the time was the 'rebel' of the Row.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

I have always wondered at the notion that the actual environs of the suit's making have any effect on the quality of the garment. If the top tailor from Poole's was to move to the east end (Or, God Forbid! the North, as I believe at least one Savile Row tailor has done) due to cost differentials, would he not make as high quality a garment?

Therefore, should not "Save the Tailor" be the refrain, rather than "Stop Change on Savile Row"? (Just a bit of devil's advocacy to liven the discussion.)

 

[lframe]

My 11 year-old, for all of mine and my husbands love of all things vintage, his exposure to it, and our mutual love of Saville Row, to say he doesn't get why we were discussing this with so much..venom, is an understatement. He was like "their new, they will breathe fresh air in". When we tried to explain he pontificated about our "moldy ways" and how could we be for something as "old" as that.

I finally looked at him and said "your father and I are going to continue discussing this matter. You've expressed yourself and how you feel about it quite clearly. However, if you have nothing else to say other than what you're repeating over and over, please refrain from this conversation."

At that point and time? I was ready to duct tape his mouth shut.

 

[Pompidou]

Seems what we need for Saville Row are three things: government protection against other business types moving onto the street as argued for by the protests, rent caps set by the government so that the tailors aren't priced out, and perhaps some sort of government handouts so that they can stay in business regardless of supply and demand.

 

[Edward]

they did. On the cover of Abbey Road all but George are wearing suits by the late Tommy Nutter, who at the time was the 'rebel' of the Row.

Aha! Dear Tommy Nutter.... he made some nice stuff. Shame he wasn't able to mandate Paul at least wear some decent shoes with his, though... if that really is Paul...

I think you're right on the subject of Row rents, I've heard that too. Certainly pretty much any tailor I've ever met doesn't earn enough that he could buy a suit from himself at retail.

I have always wondered at the notion that the actual environs of the suit's making have any effect on the quality of the garment. If the top tailor from Poole's was to move to the east end (Or, God Forbid! the North, as I believe at least one Savile Row tailor has done) due to cost differentials, would he not make as high quality a garment?

Therefore, should not "Save the Tailor" be the refrain, rather than "Stop Change on Savile Row"? (Just a bit of devil's advocacy to liven the discussion.)

I get where you are coming from on that... I've certainly more than once entered bang-head-on-desk territory with various "patriotic" types who cannot or will not accept that there are not magic trees in the USA, or something in the air which means that an electric guitar fashioned there is automatically superior to any instrument which might be made anywhere else in the world (especially, heaven forbid, in godless China). lol The Row certainly is a brand as much as anything. For me, though, it keeps coming back to there being a unique corner of London that I really do feel should be preserved in its uniqueness rather than left to merge into sameness like Camden Market is headed towards, or Carnaby Street has long been. The only unique element of Carnaby Street nowadays is the sign. It's an emotional case rather than an economic one, but there you have it.

My 11 year-old, for all of mine and my husbands love of all things vintage, his exposure to it, and our mutual love of Saville Row, to say he doesn't get why we were discussing this with so much..venom, is an understatement. He was like "their new, they will breathe fresh air in". When we tried to explain he pontificated about our "moldy ways" and how could we be for something as "old" as that.

I finally looked at him and said "your father and I are going to continue discussing this matter. You've expressed yourself and how you feel about it quite clearly. However, if you have nothing else to say other than what you're repeating over and over, please refrain from this conversation."

At that point and time? I was ready to duct tape his mouth shut.

I knew from I was eighteen that I had no desire to father children. Of all the parental anecdotes I have heard in the nearly twenty years since, not a single one has done anything other than convince me of how right I was. Inevitably, though, I imagine kids will rebel against whatever it is their parents do. My parents sighed when I wore bondage trousers, long hair, overly-short hair, wore my shirts out, then when I tucked them in (my mother would do anything to get me to stop wearing high waists), when my trousers were too tight, too wide.... Now I just confuse the life out of them by dressing like their own parents did before they were born. lol

Seems what we need for Saville Row are three things: government protection against other business types moving onto the street as argued for by the protests, rent caps set by the government so that the tailors aren't priced out, and perhaps some sort of government handouts so that they can stay in business regardless of supply and demand.

Absolutely. Here in Beijing that's exactly the approach they'd take. The Chinese know all about protecting their past - though it helps that beautiful cultural relics like the Forbidden City and the Temple of Heaven draw in the tourist dollar big time nowadays. Wasn't always the case, though.

 

[Tango Yankee]

I have always wondered at the notion that the actual environs of the suit's making have any effect on the quality of the garment. If the top tailor from Poole's was to move to the east end (Or, God Forbid! the North, as I believe at least one Savile Row tailor has done) due to cost differentials, would he not make as high quality a garment?

Therefore, should not "Save the Tailor" be the refrain, rather than "Stop Change on Savile Row"? (Just a bit of devil's advocacy to liven the discussion.)

I'm sure they would make as high quality a garment as before; but would they still charge the same rates in an attempt to keep the same level of "prestige" as they had when on the Row? As Edward mentioned, the location itself is part of the brand.

Now that I've thought of it, I believe I've seen the website of the tailor you mentioned--I think someone here posted links a few years ago--and his prices were said to be less than if he was on the Row. His business hadn't seemed to have suffered much for the move.

"Save the tailor" would be a good cause, as would "Bring back tailors who can make clothing for the ordinary guy" as well.

Cheers,
Tom

 

[MisterCairo]

I imagine a tailor is capable of producing quality anywhere, but two things come to mind. While a SR tailor could make quality suits in, say, the Yukon, I doubt there is much clientel in the immediate area.

Second, is there not a community created when craftsmen congregate in one area? I'd like to think they are a group, more than the sum of the parts, so to speak.

 

[AntonAAK]

Now that I've thought of it, I believe I've seen the website of the tailor you mentioned--I think someone here posted links a few years ago--and his prices were said to be less than if he was on the Row. His business hadn't seemed to have suffered much for the move.

You might be thinking of Thomas Mahon, formerly of Anderson and Sheppard, currently operating out of Cumbria (although he has an office on the Row for fittings).

http://www.englishcut.com/

As he says...

Firstly, basing my workshop outside of London saves me the huge overheads. This allows me to sell my suits at about 20-25% less than the big houses on Savile Row.

Still more than I can afford, though.

Two Piece Suit: £2350.00
Three Piece Suit: £2910.00
Jacket or Blazer: £1580.00
Trousers: £810.00
Overcoat: £2350.00
Two Piece Dinner Suit: £2775.00
Three Piece Dinner Suit: £3350.00

 

[Tango Yankee]

Yup, that's the fellow!

Still more than I can afford, though.

Roger that!!!

 

[herringbonekid]

just read over on the LL that Gieves and Hawkes has been bought by a Chinese retail giant after making zero profit since 2005.
more here:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...d-Hawkes-sold-to-Hong-Kong-group-Trinity.html