Ronald Lacey - Toht Fedora

[Sam Craig]

Hey, I watched Hogans Heroes for years ... those guys in the Gestapo weren't very smartlol

 

[Stan]

Hi,

Ah, but this is an adventure serial. The heros *have* to be super-men, so the villains have to be super-sinister!

And, you have to admit, that Toht *is* that. I mean, even his coat hanger looks like some modernized medieval torture device!

Usually members of the Geheim Staatspolzei wore plain clothes just like modern police detectives do today. The entire idea was that a very small number of agents could be anywhere at any time because one could not tell who was and who was not.....

I mean, it was the Secret Statepolice, after all, which is the literal translation.

Not that *this* agent had anything secret about him. You *knew* what he was about the first second you saw him onscreen!

If you want a better representation onscreen, watch The Great Escape. The Gestapo in that film are a lot more realistic, especially the old guy at the train station....

Later!

Stan

 

[avedwards]

Hi,

Ah, but this is an adventure serial. The heros *have* to be super-men, so the villains have to be super-sinister!

And, you have to admit, that Toht *is* that. I mean, even his coat hanger looks like some modernized medieval torture device!

Usually members of the Geheim Staatspolzei wore plain clothes just like modern police detectives do today. The entire idea was that a very small number of agents could be anywhere at any time because one could not tell who was and who was not.....

I mean, it was the Secret Statepolice, after all, which is the literal translation.

Not that *this* agent had anything secret about him. You *knew* what he was about the first second you saw him onscreen!

If you want a better representation onscreen, watch The Great Escape. The Gestapo in that film are a lot more realistic, especially the old guy at the train station....

Later!

Stan

I agree, for the purposes of the film Toht is great. And they look a lot more realistic in The Great Escape. In fact, in a lot of war films I think the Gestapo have a lot of style.

I just don't like it that anyone in a dark overcoat with a fedora risks being called Gestapo today thanks to the steriotype. I got that comment for the first time last Saturday when just walking down a street. People should learn that in films the Gestapo look like that, but in reality calling someone the G-word is quite a strong insult considering what they actually did.

 

[Stan]

Hi,

And, Toht's outfit just adds to that sad and silly situation. It seems that every time the image starts to fade from the collective mind, someone puts out a movie that just refreshes the tired old stereotype.

But, his hat is still cool. I don't yet have a black hat, but I would have one of this style for sure. I have all sorts of other colors, even white, but somehow never went for a black one.

It may be time to pull off another one of my cowboy hat to fedora conversions. I should be able to find a low-cost vintage black c'boy hat on eBay to try this on.

Later!

Stan

 

[scottyrocks]

I agree, for the purposes of the film Toht is great. And they look a lot more realistic in The Great Escape. In fact, in a lot of war films I think the Gestapo have a lot of style.

I just don't like it that anyone in a dark overcoat with a fedora risks being called Gestapo today thanks to the steriotype. I got that comment for the first time last Saturday when just walking down a street. People should learn that in films the Gestapo look like that, but in reality calling someone the G-word is quite a strong insult considering what they actually did.

Also, let us not forget that when this film was being made, we were all a lot less PC than we are (supposed to be) now.

 

[avedwards]

Also, let us not forget that when this film was being made, we were all a lot less PC than we are (supposed to be) now.

I personally like the lack of PC, since PC spoils a lot these days. But Steven Spielberg even made an effort to play it safe by using the Nazi's as the enemy, since it is agreed that they were evil. His words in an interview I saw were that using them is like a "get out of jail free card". Things got too political when he used the Russians in the new film, though Russia's failed attempt at trying to make people boycott the film did make me laugh.

I like Raiders of the Lost Ark and the other Indiana Jones films, and I think the characters come across well considering they are supposed to be a bit exaggerated. However I think a lot of the morons who make comments need to accept that it is just a film. When morons call anyone in a fedora Indy, and anyone in a dark overcoat Gestapo the joke gets killed.

Anyway, sorry for being fftopic: and talking about Gestapo comments.

 

[ScottF]

I wear a similar hat when interrogating...I mean 'discussing things with' ... my children.

 

[Not-Bogart13]

However, we need to bear in mind that these films have little historical accuracy a lot of the time. Indy uses a bag issued in the early 40s, and a lot of the German machine guns were made after the time the films are set in. That's not a complaint as they are not supposed to be historically accurate period dramas but action/adventure films.

Exactly. And even the novel for Raiders wasn't very specific about what Toht was. It did acknowledge him as a Major, but never mentioned a branch, or if the rank was part of his current position or something he held from previous service.

The point of Toht's design is to evoke certain feelings and ideas in the audience, more than anything else.

 

[Sam Craig]

Hey, whoever he was, he was creepy ... wasn't that the point?

Scott ... great lid ... what is it?

Sam

 

[ScottF]

Hey, whoever he was, he was creepy ... wasn't that the point?

Scott ... great lid ... what is it?

Sam

Thanks - it's a 1920's Stetson No.1 dress western.

 

[Stan]

Oh, Yeah!

I wear a similar hat when interrogating...I mean 'discussing things with' ... my children.

Now, *there's* a super 'dad' outfit if I ever saw one. You now need one of those coat hangers you can pull out from under the coat and - well - you'll get the straight dope! lol

later!

Stan

 

[Pilot99]

I wear a similar hat when interrogating...I mean 'discussing things with' ... my children.

Outstandingly similar Scott and it looks great!

 

[ScottF]

...
But Steven Spielberg even made an effort to play it safe by using the Nazi's as the enemy, since it is agreed that they were evil.

:eusa_clap Yes, much safer than having Indy be a Nazi fighting the rest of the evil world! (but I could imagine Tarantino trying something like that)

 

[Not-Bogart13]

For those who might want to know, I recently decided to try a Christy's to fill the role. I was going to go custom, but I'm not sure if I'll wear an all black hat that much. So, I decided to go for something less expensive. If it gets enough use, I'll upgrade to a custom, but for now, this will do.

It is the Adventurer model, with several modifications (making it non-returnable).

More Photos;
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27810273@N04/sets/72157623642757714/

 

[Diamondback]

My guess is that Toht wasn't so much Gestapo as SS, personally--and I'm still not sure if Vogel in LC was wearing Wehrmacht Feldgrau or SS Black. Given Spielberg's background, it'd be understandable to go SS for his bad guys as the worst of the worst... (believe me, I know, my great-uncle was part of a unit tasked with hunting the SOB's down and killing 'em!)

----------------
Now playing: Jerry Goldsmith - Sinking Plane
via FoxyTunes

 

[tonyb]

For those who might want to know, I recently decided to try a Christy's to fill the role. I was going to go custom, but I'm not sure if I'll wear an all black hat that much. So, I decided to go for something less expensive. If it gets enough use, I'll upgrade to a custom, but for now, this will do.



It is the Adventurer model, with several modifications (making it non-returnable).

More Photos;
http://www.flickr.com/photos/27810273@N04/sets/72157623642757714/

I like that look, NB, and your account of how it all came about.

I'm not familiar with Christy's, so please indulge me here. What modifications from their standard Adventurer model are we seeing? Edge binding? Band ribbon and bow? How 'bout brim width?

And, if it's not out of place to ask, how much do they charge to accommodate those requests?

What's your assessment of its overall quality, as compared to other modern factory-made hats?

 

[Not-Bogart13]

What modifications from their standard Adventurer model are we seeing? Edge binding? Band ribbon and bow? How 'bout brim width?
And, if it's not out of place to ask, how much do they charge to accommodate those requests?

What's your assessment of its overall quality, as compared to other modern factory-made hats?

The Adventurer is basically a Temple of Doom hat that comes open crowned with a 3" x 2.5" raw brim. And really terrible bow tacking. All I wanted was the block shape, because it had the least taper of their fedoras. I then ordered a bow change, binding, and different brim width. They did not charge me for any of this. In the end, it was cheaper than buying a Federation and sending it a hatter for the modifications, and I had zero luck finding a cheaper lid still made of fur felt.

Based only on handling it, quality is fair. The felt feels thinner than a modern Stetson, but still substantial. Brim is crisp and springy, while the crown is buttery soft. The ribbon and tacking are mediocre at best, detracting from the overall. It's a shame really. They did a nice job with the binding, though. Clean and even. I also noticed that sizing is smaller than other factory hats I've worn. That's ok for me because most factory 7.5's are a little big on me. [huh]

Only time will tell if it can handle daily life, but as a dress hat: It looks about on-par with the low-to-mid quality factory lids. Despite frequent comparisons to Herbert Johnsons, this felt seems totally different. Construction methods may be the same, though, based on what I've seen in the past.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Just for a visual reference, here's a shot of Toht.

Checking around quickly it seems that the Akubra Campdraft is a close match, having the same crown height and having a bound brim of about the right width.

Of course it would have to be shaped, and have a new band put on. But it's a great excuse to get a black Campdraft!

That band does look rather wide.

Strangely enough, I already have prescription glasses just like that, they're German frames from the 1930s.