Retro-extremists? What are we called?

[Senator Jack]

At a writing forum, I was trying to explain about this kooky subculture of ours but was hard-pressed for one good word to describe it. If you say someone's a 'biker', at least it evinces the stereotypical image of a fat, tatted guy drinking Bud on a Hog, but there's no word that fully evinces what we do. And I'm not talking about those having a passing interest of vintage culture, I'm talking about the diehard Forgotten Man/Lizzie Maine/myself-included set that go on about life as though it really were still 1930,40,50, etc. (I apologize to FM and LM if I'm wrong about this inclusion, but I'm going to presume from the thousands of posts stating otherwise, I'm not. )

Kind regards,

Jack

 

[LizzieMaine]

I'm kind of fond of "Atavist," myself. I got called a "Vintage Liver" once, but that made me sound like something that sat too long in a butcher's window.

 

[Senator Jack]

Yeah, I was going with 'atavist' also, but I still had to explain it to people. I suppose what we need to do is propagate the term through the internet, accompanied with picture of what we do and how we live, till people start associating it with us. I know, we all hate labels, but I think a wikipedia article about us would save us all a lot of trouble.

 

[LizzieMaine]

That's a good idea -- we need to, as they say, work on our brand. Occasionally I get asked questions that go beyond the "what do you call that outfit you're wearing" type of question (and to which my answer is always "Clothes.") The simplest shorthand explanation I can give is something like "I'm a twentieth century person stuck in a twenty-first century world," or if the person asking is an obvious techie type, "I'm an analog person trapped in a digital world."

If I recall, Miss Joeri, who I wish was around here more than she is, had a great term -- and I can't for the life of me remember it.

 

[Shangas]

Living Historians.
Retrophiles.
Walking Museums.
Time-travel Machines.

 

[Senator Jack]

This is Wikipedia's entry on Cultural Atavism.

The term atavism is sometimes also applied in the discussion of culture[8]. Some social scientists describe the return of older, "more primitive" tendencies (e.g., warlike attitudes, "clan identity," etc. -- anything suggesting the social and political atmosphere of thousands of years ago) as "atavistic." "Resurgent atavism" is a common name for the belief that people in the modern era are beginning to revert to ways of thinking and acting that are throwbacks to a former time. This is especially used by sociologists in reference to violence.

I don't think we're particularly violent. People might get the wrong idea.

I think the term has to definitely conjure up a 20th century lifestyle, whether it's 20s, 30s, or even 70s. (yes, there are people out there who live a completely 1970s lifestyle with 8-tracks and everything.)

Regards,

Jack

 

[Senator Jack]

'Retrophile' certainly has a good ring to it, but I think anything with 'Retro' in it might deem us as being a fad instead of a subculture that's been around for decades.

'The Curators of Time'? Sounds like an 'Outer Limits' episode.

 

[Flat Foot Floey]

I always just hear terms with "swing" in it because its the more lighthearted part of the 20s to 40s. As in germany..ah not again.:eusa_doh:

So they call my Hepcat or Swingheini or something ...not very creative and not even my own choice but I guess it could be worse.[huh]

 

[MisterCairo]

Occasionally I get asked questions that go beyond the "what do you call that outfit you're wearing" type of question (and to which my answer is always "Clothes.")

When asked what he called his haircut, a 1964 George Harrison replied "Harold". I've always liked responses like that!

 

[Creeping Past]

At a writing forum, I was trying to explain about this kooky subculture of ours but was hard-pressed for one good word to describe it. If you say someone's a 'biker', at least it evinces the stereotypical image of a fat, tatted guy drinking Bud on a Hog, but there's no word that fully evinces what we do. And I'm not talking about those having a passing interest of vintage culture, I'm talking about the diehard Forgotten Man/Lizzie Maine/myself-included set that go on about life as though it really were still 1930,40,50, etc. (I apologize to FM and LM if I'm wrong about this inclusion, but I'm going to presume from the thousands of posts stating otherwise, I'm not. )

Kind regards,

Jack

By all that's holy, and indeed unholy for that matter, avoid the term 'extremism', which is being waggled in the direction of anyone who dares think of expressing a sense of themselves even a tad higher than the lowest common denominator.

Retroactive?

 

[Senator Jack]

Yeah, I've never been much for extremists, either, but then again, I'm pretty much everything I hate.

Okay, so definitely out are anything with 'extreme' and 'retro' in it (for reasons explained above). Also, for reasons listed above, it should be a generic term and have nothing to do, specifically, with 'the golden era'. 70s guy should be able to use the term as equally as 20s guy.

I should point out that I'm entirely serious about this, as what Lizzie appropriately calls it, 'branding'. I'm starting to sketch out a short Wiki article already.

Regards,

Jack

 

[LizzieMaine]

I think the subcultural aspects of this are really rather interesting -- because I guess I grew up in a subculture without even realizing it was one. Culturally speaking, my grandparents pretty much stopped winding the clock in 1945, and that was the influence that I grew up surrounded by, and that shaped my outlook -- it was just the way we lived. I never thought there was anything unusual about it at the time, but then at that time it was only thirty years or so in the past, and as you say there's still people today who seem to be rather unironically stuck in the 70s or 80s. You'd be surprised how many middle-aged or older people, especially in small towns, still had a '40s-ish way of life in the '70s.

We never had a word for people like that -- who didn't "move with the times" because it wasn't in their nature to do so -- but there really ought to be a non-judgemental, non-derisive way of describing it. I think the phrase Joeri used, now that I think of it, was "neo-traditionalist," but that isn't quite what I'm looking for either. But I think "extreme" anything is much too far in the wrong direction -- I'm about as non-extreme a person as ever lived, myself.

 

[dhermann1]

My mother always referred to herself as atavistic, so you can guess where I get it from. I like atavist, but I'm afraid it's too esoteric a word. Some people will dash for the dictionary, others will think it has something to do with science fiction.
(Lizzie: I'm imagining that retro liver sitting on the butcher's shelf, turning colors. lol )
But I still like atavist better than anything using the word "vintage".
One problem is that "My Father's house has many mansions". There is great diversity among us. I'm told that in LA it's a much more all inclusive life style, but here in New York it's a little more diverse. Out in Middle America it must be a very solitary passion indeed! But there are 20's types, 50's types, and everything in between.

 

[Senator Jack]

Culturally speaking, my grandparents pretty much stopped winding the clock in 1945

Clockstoppers? Certain ring to it, but still not right. Not scientific enough, if you get my drift. Chrono-? Chrono what?

 

[Senator Jack]

Damn, Atavist really is the right word. 'Hey, look. There goes one of those atavists.' Perhaps it's just a matter of getting it out there so people associate it with this subculture.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I've also heard "chronological dysphoria", but that's a bit too clinical for my tastes, to say nothing of implying there's something *wrong* with us. Nothin' wrong with me, thank you very much. Well, aside from the migraines and the sciatica.

Perhaps "20th Century Atavism?"

 

[skyvue]

Perhaps "throwback" could be worked in? Merriam-Webster uses it in its definition of atavism.

 

[BellyTank]

20th-Centurions.

Non-scientific names seem worse...


B
T

 

[Senator Jack]

How's this for a start?

Atavism is a sub-culture in which the members have decided to ‘stop the clock’, generally rejecting the culture of modern society in favor of one from a bygone era. While they understand that some of the technical innovations of the modern era are required for them to function in today’s world (ex. the Internet and the mobile telephone), members genuinely live an alternative lifestyle based on their chosen chronological culture. Thus, a 1920s Atavist will have in his or her home the furnishings and appliances of that era but in no manner consider these pieces to be antiques. That is, in a 1920s Atavist home, a Victrola is not a quaint device used to play old records but a convenience as modern and useful as the Ipod.

I guess I'm trying to nail the essence of it before going into the details. I used 'Atavism' here just to get started, but I'm still unsure if that's the right word.

Regards,

Jack

 

[LizzieMaine]

I think that hits it right on the head. Maybe make the point that the Atavist generally makes use of elements of modern technology as a means to an end, rather than embracing them as an end in themselves -- computers and the Internet, for example, might be used primarily as tools for acquiring and maintaining the necessary accoutrements of an Atavist lifestyle, but the user may have little interest in other applications of such technology beyond its value as a source of goods and information -- preferring, for example, to write letters as opposed to the everyday use of text messages or email, or using eBay to acquire a set of hard-bound encyclopedias.