Responding to public mocking

[Chinaski]

I think you might find some inspiration here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWNLhptltBg&feature=related

 

[tonyb]

I generally got no problem with going back over territory we've thoroughly covered before. After all, there's only so much to chew over, and similar themes (essentially identical ones, sometimes) are bound to come up over and over again. And we always have our new arrivals, such as yourself, mercuryfelt76, who haven't been in on those earlier discussions. So that's all cool, in my book.

Still, this particular road is getting pretty deeply rutted. But, just to wear that rut all the deeper ...

You certainly aren't responsible for other people's behavior. But how do you suppose these unfortunate encounters of yours appear to a reasonable and disinterested third party? Are you able to take a sufficiently detached view of yourself to get some sense of that? (It's tough, I know, and perhaps not even possible, but we can try.)

A person who presents him- or herself as looking for attention ought not be surprised when he or she gets some, positive or negative. Only a masochist would consciously go looking for the sorts of attention of which you complain, so I have to wonder if you are coming across quite the way you think you are.

I'm not critical of a certain amount of attention-seeking, by the way, or unusual styles or careful planning of one's attire. I dig it, when it's done well. And if not for that tendency, the forums here would be a whole lot quieter than they are, and people like me might have to find straight jobs. Perish the thought. But there comes a point (we've been over this ground many a time before, too) where the hat or suit or the whole shebang wears the man, rather than the other way around. People tend to respond unfavorably to that.

 

[mercuryfelt76]

I think that hat wearing is less astounding in the U.S. than it seems to be in the U.K.

I think the reason is the British people see on films time and time again the stereotype the feeble, over-apologetic, old fashioned, stuffy fop - subsequently, the under-represented working class hate people reinforcing these tiresome stereotypes. Plus as someone else said earlier, two world wars wiped out most of the decent gentlemen or at least made a big enough generation gap and our culture of respect wasn't passed on to the next generation.

 

[mercuryfelt76]

I generally got no problem with going back over territory we've thoroughly covered before. After all, there's only so much to chew over, and similar themes (essentially identical ones, sometimes) are bound to come up over and over again. And we always have our new arrivals, such as yourself, mercuryfelt76, who haven't been in on those earlier discussions. So that's all cool, in my book.

Still, this particular road is getting pretty deeply rutted. But, just to wear that rut all the deeper ...

You certainly aren't responsible for other people's behavior. But how do you suppose these unfortunate encounters of yours appear to a reasonable and disinterested third party? Are you able to take a sufficiently detached view of yourself to get some sense of that? (It's tough, I know, and perhaps not even possible, but we can try.)

A person who presents him- or herself as looking for attention ought not be surprised when he or she gets some, positive or negative. Only a masochist would consciously go looking for the sorts of attention of which you complain, so I have to wonder if you are coming across quite the way you think you are.

I'm not critical of a certain amount of attention-seeking, by the way, or unusual styles or careful planning of one's attire. I dig it, when it's done well. And if not for that tendency, the forums here would be a whole lot quieter than they are, and people like me might have to find straight jobs. Perish the thought. But there comes a point (we've been over this ground many a time before, too) where the hat or suit or the whole shebang wears the man, rather than the other way around. People tend to respond unfavorably to that.

Believe me it's nothing I'm doing, people are just very aggressive here. I admit I'm asking for it so I only come here for the advice I've missed out on, being new here and all. But if people are getting tired of this issue I'll say thank-you, I think I've had all the advice I need. I won't change my style because it looks so good and plenty of other people tell me they like it so I'm all the better for discussing it now. Thanks everyone.

 

[Saint-Just]

Considering how ridiculous most cyclists look nowadays, I wouldn't bat an eyelid. I might reply something along the lines of "we can't all have pretty legs like yours" if I felt like I could be bothered, but most of the time I would laugh it out, possibly with him (rather than at him).

If you're going to dress in an old fashion way, you must also find in yourself this old fashioned self depreciating humour Brits are renowned for.

 

[Italian-wiseguy]

Well, I'm quite used to see people wearing fedoras, berets and "newsboy" caps; I even met the random bowler in a couple of occasions; so I guess they were at ease and nobody had anything rude to say.
That said, it's true that in Italy (mostly in the past decades, it's definitely a dead thing) there was a emphasis on "doing like others do"; it was also true that doing differently than others do rarely got any rude comment, as this may have led (in some part of this country even today) to knife fighting; judging from the rude oxfordian bikers (ironically in Italy "Oxford" is the paramount of education and good manners) I'm starting to re-evaluate knife fighting as a good way to teach proper manners.

ciao!

 

[cybergentleman]

Regarding how to contend with these types- just ignore them. I've been hooted at a few times on the sidewalk, usually highschoolers or freshman undergrads; just smile and move on. Frankly, anyone who wastes their energy mocking a stranger for wearing clothes is a jerk and not worth the energy.

On a side note regarding your appearance vs age- post up some pics, maybe our experts can lend some advice.

 

[Mario]

Being an Americain who has lived in Europe for the last 11 years, I think that there is much more tolerance in the States for the whole "doing your own thing but not bothering anybody" attitude. I don't know if you consider Britain as part of Europe, but the people here have a very hard time accepting anything which is out of the ordinary-whether it be something positive or not. There is a huge emphasis on conforming and doing things just like everyone else.

Now that's kinda funny. Just two days ago (wearing 50's pants, 50's jacket and a Fedora) I happened to bump into a guy I hadn't seen since our school days (and that was 24 years ago...). He walked up to me - I was amazed that he did actually recognize me in the first place, it took me a moment to find out who he was - looked me up and down and then commenced to say something to the extent that he always believed I was some kind of trouble monger. He was actually convinced that I thought of myself as something better by not strictly 'conforming to the rules' and doing things my own way. I was really stunned by the sheer disgust he showed me. This guy actually loathed me for having my own point of view. Twentyfour years gone and he still had those feelings. That encounter left me dumbfounded, really. Never before have I experienced something like this. [huh]

 

[BinkieBaumont]

In Australia we are encouraged by the Cancer Council to Slap on a Hat! Slip.Slop.Slap so nobody has an issue with anyone wearing any type of headgear

[video=youtube;nztHSVvZUoU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nztHSVvZUoU&feature=related[/video]

 

[Italian-wiseguy]

I find somehow funny that appearently in the last 40 years in Italy all the craze was about "do your think", "show your own personality" and "be different"; which the vast majority translated in "be just like everyone else in your age group, and slightly different from your father's generation".
I knew tons and tons of persons firmly convinced of being different, interesting and full of personality, while they were doing, buying and donning the very same things.
Still, very few rude comments here to "really different guys".

One hint to people visiting Italy and considering about driving here: if you meet some a**hole honking or shouting at you, stay calm and slow down, give the impression that you're ready to the stop the car and confront him: 9 on 10, he'll fly away at lightspeed, fearing you're some kind of criminal...

 

[avedwards]

On a similar note- Does vintage clothing attract a rude/violent response?

I think what the Baron said in page one or two of this thread really nailed it: the UK is not a good place to wear a hat or in any way look different. A homburg may draw more a lot of stupid comments, but so will a fedora. The only option you have other than wearing more conformative clothing is to ignore people's stupidity. I'd personally advocate the second option as I do not see why you should be intimidated into no longer dressing the way you want to. Alternatively, when someone shouts a rude comment you could just tip your hat and say thank you as though they complimented you. That might confuse them.

Also, try associating with people who are supportive of your hat and suit wearing habits. I always find that it strengthens my resolve to carry on dressing the way I do when my friends tell me how "cool" or "awesome" it looks.

 

[fmw]

Considering how ridiculous most cyclists look nowadays, I wouldn't bat an eyelid. I might reply something along the lines of "we can't all have pretty legs like yours" if I felt like I could be bothered, but most of the time I would laugh it out, possibly with him (rather than at him).

If you're going to dress in an old fashion way, you must also find in yourself this old fashioned self depreciating humour Brits are renowned for.

That struck a chuckle in me. I'm an avid cyclist. I ride a road bike every day that weather permits. I've always been confounded by the gaudy attire. Personally, I've quit wearing cycling jerseys in favor of monochrome T shirts. i wear black cycling shorts and shoes. But my helmet? Well, that's another thing entirely.

 

[RP McMurphy]

*Holds self back*

My gut reaction here is a few choice words as to the character of such bicycle riding individuals... but those comments would likely get me in trouble on such a family friendly establishment. Let me just say that a great many dubious characters wore hats in the past. John Dillinger, and Winston Churchill, for instance. Now, I wouldn't advocate carrying around a tommy gun or calling in spitfire attack... but keep the memory of history's great hat-wearing men burning when you stand up to such abuse. Quite frankly, stopping in the street to denounce someone's sense of style is just rude. Just keep walking, and ignore the idiot holding up traffic.

 

[fmw]

I find somehow funny that appearently in the last 40 years in Italy all the craze was about "do your think", "show your own personality" and "be different"; which the vast majority translated in "be just like everyone else in your age group, and slightly different from your father's generation".
I knew tons and tons of persons firmly convinced of being different, interesting and full of personality, while they were doing, buying and donning the very same things.
Still, very few rude comments here to "really different guys".

One hint to people visiting Italy and considering about driving here: if you meet some a**hole honking or shouting at you, stay calm and slow down, give the impression that you're ready to the stop the car and confront him: 9 on 10, he'll fly away at lightspeed, fearing you're some kind of criminal...

What? Horn honking in Italy?

 

[Italian-wiseguy]

Mmm
clacsoning.. don't know I've used the right term... anyway, italian car drivers are capable of everything (except, respecting the law )
when I lived in Rome, one popular sport there was, er, "driving while insulting", i.e. drivers shouting at each others if one of the two did something goofy.
The first time it looks intimidating, then you simply realize they're simply looking for occasion of fun, and ready to take answers in the same tone. Actually, they're expecting them, the funnier the better.
Ciao!

 

[bowlerman]

This thread has spurred some hilarious responses!

While I live in a very "status quo" community, there is a hidden balance of underground free-thinkers, and often they're the folks you wouldn't necessarily peg as such at first glance.

However, I do get some fairly uninformed commentary from time to time, but the only adverse harassment I get (other than a complete hat disapproval from my wife) comes from high school kids or undergrads, who are typically easy to ignore, especially since I teach/have taught/occasionally work with every almost every college in the area, and don a hat every time I walk onto campus.

I did, however, have to keep my mouth shut and avert my gaze once at a gas station in Las Vegas while wearing my Montana Peaks cowboy hat next to a car of clearly-no-messing-around gang members-- and these were easily identified as "not the poser type." I had to swallow my pride for a few hours, but was recovered by the time I pulled into Los Angeles.

 

[mercuryfelt76]

As many replies from our UK Loungers seem to suggest, it's not the suit which draws the attention, it's the hat. Everyone here wears baseball caps and people in suits don't wear hats at all. But I know other people who are vintage dressers and apparently I wear it well.

I did see an older gentleman wearing an extra wide fedora in London the other day and noticed a lot of people looking at him, one even gave a "yeeha!" thinking it was a cowboy hat - nothing unusual there.

As soon as I take the hat off I feel invisible as there's nothing unusual about suits in London and nobody even gives me a second glance. Funny enough I get a lot of teenagers say they love on hat and want to know where can buy one. It only seems to be the people born in the 60s who can't wait to tell me what they think.

I once had a near-50 year old skinhead in denim and patches shoulder barge me really hard in a busy central London station filled with security cameras. I spun round and squared up to him but he just kept walking and shouted an obscenity over his shoulder. I said absolutely nothing but I must have looked to calm (even though I was shaking) and a girl next to me appeared to be quite taken by me after that. Can you believe this is in London where my style was so popular not long ago? OK I don't blend in but neither did this guy. It's not the first time I've been assaulted just for my fashion sense.

 

[John in Covina]

This thread has spurred some hilarious responses!
I did, however, have to keep my mouth shut and avert my gaze once at a gas station in Las Vegas while wearing my Montana Peaks cowboy hat next to a car of clearly-no-messing-around gang members-- and these were easily identified as "not the poser type." I had to swallow my pride for a few hours, but was recovered by the time I pulled into Los Angeles.

The reference to gang members points out exactly how intimidation works. In certain situations if we get mad enough to respond because it's been a bad day and we lose our temper we are less likely to have it be when we're dealing with some guy that truly looks dangerous. However, there is another part that says people that bully others never listen to reason and continue only until someone cleans their clock.

Unfortunately, the way that some communities work we find that gang members with sociopathethic behavior have not been incarcerated to serious re-education camps utilizing techniques as seen in A Clockwork Orange.
Here is when the phrase of "disgression is the better part of valor" comes in to play.

As a warning, I have seen enough of these threads shut down because the conversation gets mobbed by the egalitarian at all costs. Some Loungers may take up the challenge and tell you that you were totally judgemental as to your supposing they were gang members which in turn makes you the evil person in the story because you are prejudiced. Just watch out for those responses. Also they will come into a conversation and throw in a statement like a hand grenade to try to disrupt the conversation by making outrageous statements,

So every one be prepared.

 

[bowlerman]

I suppose I may kick myself for not using discretion right now, but I feel like a response is necessary:

Thanks for the warning, John.

I'd never in a million years say I'm a better person than the folks in the car next to me at that gas station, but to make a personal judgement call to ignore the hurling insults of 4-5 guys waving their hands up and down at me who, by coincidence I'm sure, were wearing recognized gang attire and looking to expel some energy in a confrontation, I'd say is definitely one's prerogative, especially with four young children in the car. I must admit, and I'm sorry to say it, that I probably do have some prejudices against people who display intent to confront me in front of my children. I'm not exactly the whitest looking guy on the block, and believe me, it has happened far more often with well-dressed businessmen than with presumed gang members. I chose this story, however, because it's the only one that related directly to my hat.
Thanks for understanding.

 

[fmw]

Mmm
clacsoning.. don't know I've used the right term... anyway, italian car drivers are capable of everything (except, respecting the law )
when I lived in Rome, one popular sport there was, er, "driving while insulting", i.e. drivers shouting at each others if one of the two did something goofy.
The first time it looks intimidating, then you simply realize they're simply looking for occasion of fun, and ready to take answers in the same tone. Actually, they're expecting them, the funnier the better.
Ciao!

Sorry, wiseguy, I was joking. I lived in Italy for several months many years ago. I felt like I was taking my life in my hands every time I took to the roadways. It is a tough place to drive for sure, particularly in Rome where drivers speed down one way streets in the wrong direction.