Regular Oval vs Long Oval

[Simon82]

All --

As I've ordered a custom Adventurebilt, I want to make sure I don't drop the ball on this one. I know my head measurements, and my usual hat size (7 1/4), but can't tell if I'm a long oval or not.

I have a straw 7 1/4 Resistol cowboy hat (the wide brim keeps off the sun in summer) and a "large" 7 1/4 - 7 3/8 Stetson straw fedor that fit nearly perfectly.

However, I have an old 7 1/4 Benton fur felt fedora that's tight only against my tall Frankensteinish forehead, and not the back of my head. Nothing horrible, but snugger than I'd like. Same thing with a cheapy old wool Stetson cowboy hat. So I don't know if it's the age of the hats, the material, or what, but the tightness is in the same place -- the front -- which makes me wonder if my noggin's a long oval.

Any way to tell, and does it really make that much of a difference when ordering a custom hat?

Thanks in advance,

Simon

 

[jamespowers]

It makes a difference. Especially if you are an extra long oval like me.
If a regular 7 1/4 has problems fitting you then you probably need a long oval just to be sure the hat is going to fit. If you have a flatter than normal forehead then that extra area is going to add to the circumference of the regular oval hat. I am not sure if a soft fur felt would conform to that kind of shape readily. I have a friend with the same problem as you. He just goes up a size and everything is fine but it depends on the manufacturer.
I am sure if you express this concern at the outset, your custom hatter should be able to help you.

Regards to all,

J

 

[Andykev]

Call the cops

If you put on a hat in "your size"..and can stick finger width(s) on the side, it clearly shows you have a noggin that is front to back wider than side to side.

I recommend having your head measued at a reputable hat shop. If none exist, try a police store, which sells STRATTON Trooper hats. Straton has a set of SIZEING RINGS which are in SIZE and OVAL.

They are heavy cardboard with oval cut outs. They are great!

 

[Cruiser]

I suspect that my correct hat shape would be a long oval, based on the way my hats press on the front and back of my head. I have searched this forum trying to find specific info on the long oval and how that relates to hat size, but am still confused: (1) If I wear a 7 1/2 normally, would I wear a 7 3/8 long oval? At least one post suggested that this is the case; however, circumference is circumference, regardless whether the ellipse is skinny or fat, isn't it? If anyone can shed light on this, I would appreciate it!

fftopic: In doing some research on this, I ran across two web sites that suggested ethnic origin plays a part in selecting hat shape (included here just as a point of interest):

(1) "The shape of your head is partially determined by your ethnic make-up. Germanic, Hispanic and oriental people, in ascending order of roundness, tend to have more rounded heads. A regular oval hat will usually fit people from those backgrounds. "

(2) "If known, please include your ethnic descent. Your cranium is much like your ancestors. Over the years, we have developed knowledge of types of noggins by the region from which your people came. An example would be German descent, the head tends to be angular and tall, on some men up to four inches above the ear which can cause you to “top out” in the crown of some hats (Hit your head on the top). You may have French ancestry who often have a slight protrusion about an inch over your brow line. This can add an eighth of a inch to what you think is your size which can lead to a slightly too tight fit. Our Oriental friends have more rounded heads all around and cannot wear a European long oval hat, which many hats are. If your ancestry is Welsh or Polish, well we need to talk!"

 

[Tony in Tarzana]

Well, my Dad's half is Scots-Irish and Mom's is from Austria, Hungary and Slovakia. Must be why I have a weird head. lol

 

[Cruiser]

Unfortunately for me, Tony, I have Welch ancestry--must mean I am doomed as far as hats go![huh]

 

[Andykev]

Size is OK, but oval matters

Hummmm..'
The hat measurements that you mentioned are correct. Your head shape is either a LONG OVAL, REGULAR OVAL. WIDE OVAL..

THis is how the hat fits the head.

I, for instance, am a " long oval".

When you wear a hat with the improper oval. you will be disappointed/

So you may be a 7 1/4, but if the oval is wrong, you can up or down size to fit correctly.

 

[feltfan]

I don't know if Long Oval is a different circumference.
I expect it's just a different distribution of the circumference.
Depending on the hat make, I can wear a 7 1/2 LO or a 7 5/8.
And sometimes that means I have some space around the sides
and sometimes it doesn't.

But that business of head shape and ethnic background
sounds pretty fishy to me. Smacks of phrenology.
I am of German, Dutch, Polish, Lithuanian, etc derivation
and have a LO head. "Hispanic" is a pretty bogus term
for these purposes, for example- it could mean a lot of
different origins.

That's why a good hat maker will measure your head,
not ask what your great grandfather wore.

 

[Fedora]

The circumferences are the same, regardless of head shape. The long oval hat block just elongates the circumference. Fedora

 

[aliados]

Long oval


I just found this info on

http://www.headshaveproducts.com/forums/showthread.php?p=36966

and thought it would be of general interest.

"You can measure the circumference with a tailor's measure and then convert that number. Google hat sizing. The European have it right sizing the hat by circumference in Centimeters, no confusion. The only other problem is head shape. Round oval. oval, long oval, extra long oval. To determine that you'll need a set of outside calipers and this . . .
"Round oval is 5/8 inch longer than it is wide
"Regular oval is 1 3/8 inches longer than it is wide
"Long oval is 2 1/8 inches longer than it is wide
"X-Long oval is 2 7/8 inches longer than it is wide
"XX-Long oval is 3 5/8 inches longer than it is wide
"XXX-Long oval is 4 3/8 inches longer than it is wide."

I don't have calipers, but a wire coat hanger, bent into a "C", worked just fine!
For the record, I'm precisely between a long and an extra long oval -- rats! I guess that's why I favor SOFT hats!

 

[Baron Kurtz]

If a long oval head (like mine) wears a regular oval hat, it will be tight at the front and back and will have gaps on the sides. I was lucky enough to find the hat wardrobe of a man with a long oval head in my size. The L.O. vintage hats are generally quite rare in any size, and command a premium price when they are found.

bk

 

[jimmy the lid]

Aliados, thanks for posting that info. My head is 2 1/8 inches longer than it is wide, so I match the Long Oval criteria exactly. I was lucky enough to find a Playboy in a 7 3/8 LO, and a Whippet in a 7 1/2 LO. What a different feeling it is to have a hat that actually matches the shape of your head, rather than having the gaps on the side! It's wonderful, and, without a doubt, one of the reasons that makes custom hats so inviting.

Cheers,
JtL

 

[aliados]

What a different feeling it is to have a hat that actually matches the shape of your head, rather than having the gaps on the side!

You're more than welcome! Glad it did SOMEONE some good!
I have an old hat stretcher which measure perfectly to normal oval; I'm thinking of trimming it down to match my head-shape, then using it to custom-fit a regular hat that's one size too small. Will let you know if and how it works!

 

[fatwoul]

I seem to recall Matt Deckard mentioning he is "German Oval" somewhere, which I think he described as a slightly triangular oval, larger and flatter at the front. I'm the opposite - my head is smaller at the front, long oval, and slightly broader at the back.

Oh, and lopsided. One side of my head is bigger than the other.

I'm pretty sure there was nobody with the surname Merrick in my family, but I am also clueless as to my ancestry, other than it is just English and Welsh back at least 200 years.

 

[Matt Deckard]

From what I have measured the circumference is the same. Asking at the local hatter and seeing the blocks shows they are the same as well. The only difference is the shape of the circle.

The reason for the upsizing if a long oval is not available is because the fit will be more comfortable

 

[Kentucky Blues]

I'm pretty sure there was nobody with the surname Merrick in my family.

perhaps you're a decendant of his cousin? lol

fftopic:
I've recently discovered that I'm probably a long oval, and I've noticed something. Every hat I have except one (which is wide oval, drats) is a regular oval, but quite a few of them have an off center oval. That is, in order to wear it so that the back and front of the oval are at the back and front of my head, I have to turn the hat a little bit, throwing off the pinch, brim, and just about everything else. I'm *pretty* sure that at least two of these hats were like that when I got them, but I have to wonder.... Is it possible that my long oval distorted the oval of the hat to conform to my head?

Also, I've noticed that a larger size up feels like a larger size up, rather than a better fitting alternative to a regular oval in my circumference....

 

[Topper]

"Round oval is 5/8 inch longer than it is wide
"Regular oval is 1 3/8 inches longer than it is wide
"Long oval is 2 1/8 inches longer than it is wide
"X-Long oval is 2 7/8 inches longer than it is wide
"XX-Long oval is 3 5/8 inches longer than it is wide
"XXX-Long oval is 4 3/8 inches longer than it is wide."

Oooh someone at HeadShave Central pinched the size measurements from me !!!! haven't they heard of quoting the source! :rage:

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?t=20083&page=2

Please see my previous explaniation. There is no "Standard" Head Long oval - Though chatting away it was concluded that a 2&1/8 inch is the most common considered baseline Long oval.

X XX XXX dont exist is a written standard either - one can be a "XXX-long oval" or mearly a "4&3/8 Long oval" it is just the same, traditionally the latter would have been used, calling things XX XXX XXX, 2XL 3XL 4XL is a more modern concept.

"Long Oval" is a general descriptive term that needs a numerical figure to go with it for a hat to be made correctly.

Regional ethnic backgrounds do vary - and within that background there would be a Statistically "mode" head shape .. that being said it does not mean that other that all Germans were all squareheads and French Long Ovals! There is a differences in every Human ...that is what makes us Human!

 

[Fast]

I'm thinking about padding and taping my hat stretcher. . . first to a little longer oval, then to recreate the bumps up front.

Carpe Diem
Fast

 

[fatwoul]

...Long oval is 2 1/8 inches longer than it is wide...

That's an excellent find. Anybody who saw my picture where I mapped my head may remember I discovered my head is pretty much exactly 6 inches wide and 8 inches front-back. That 2 inch difference pretty much puts me as a textbook long oval.

 

[Dietzatron]

After a recent post of mine, I'm still trying to figure this long oval thing out. There's a Whippet on Ebay now that's exactly what I want (and am probably crazy enough to pay a premium for), except for one thing--it's 7 1/4 Long. According to the chart in this post, and after comparing my 7 1/4 Regular Stetson Open Road (which is a bit loose on the sides, but fits fine front and back) with my new Art Fawcett hat (which is perfect), I'm about half-way between a Reg. and Long oval. Whew...

So, for anyone with experience, how different is the fit between a Stetson Regular oval and Long oval in the same size? Could I make it work? Or will there be too much space front to back?