Reeded vs. Unreeded Sweatband

[fluteplayer07]

What is the difference between a reeded and unreeded sweatband? One of them indicates a hat is older, right? I was hoping you had pictures... I think something like this popped up earlier, but I didn't see any examples.

Thanks!

 

[ScottF]

What is the difference between a reeded and unreeded sweatband? One of them indicates a hat is older, right? I was hoping you had pictures... I think something like this popped up earlier, but I didn't see any examples.

Thanks!

Thread on this subject: Identifying early hats by sweatband

 

[rlk]

Thread on this subject: Identifying early hats by sweatband

Careful of generalizations...Only applies to certain makers.

 

[ScottF]

Careful of generalizations...Only applies to certain makers.

If I remember correctly, that thread should give him enough information to tell the difference, and I believe it also gives examples of Stetsons moving from reeded to unreeded, then back to reeded. But that might be another thread.

 

[Stan]

Hi,

Well, I find that having a reed helps one flare out the edge of the sweatband, and hold it flared, which makes it a lot easier and faster to install into the hat.

I imagine that one day some hatter somewhere got the idea that having a reed would speed up the installation of the sweat. As time marched on, first one hatter and then another would find out about this reed business, and so copy it.

So, for some makers, they'd have started using reeds years earlier than others.

I'm not sure one can do better than maybe date the brands individually when it comes to reeded vs. non....

Later!

Stan

 

[ScottF]

Hi,

Well, I find that having a reed helps one flare out the edge of the sweatband, and hold it flared, which makes it a lot easier and faster to install into the hat.

I imagine that one day some hatter somewhere got the idea that having a reed would speed up the installation of the sweat. As time marched on, first one hatter and then another would find out about this reed business, and so copy it.

...

Stan

I'll play devil's advocate here. I used to think the same thing, but then I ran across a hat that was reeded, but the band was still sewn through the edge of the felt 'corner', as you see in un-reeded bands, rather than straight through the felt. This got me thinking that maybe the 'reeding' idea was actually for strength - i.e, to keep the sweatband attached to the hat better, and that this evolved into creating wider reed tape for easier sewing straight through the felt, and thus faster production, as you describe above.

Just throwing that out there - could be that someone like Dinerman already has the answer for us.

 

[rlk]

Doesn't seam to be about "progress" as unreeded and reeded examples can be found over 100 years old and current production. The reed does give some roundness(oval) and shape to a soft hat. As you have noted the installation varies as well. Reeded are generally 3-piece while unreeded is just the leather so degree of complexity is not precisely the issue. Different machines are involved(or handwork).

 

[Brad Bowers]

As rlk states, reeded sweatbands have been around a long time, since the mid- to late-19th century, at least. One thing I have noted is that most ealier reeded sweatbands were in Derbies, whereas the use of unreeded sweats seems to be confined to soft hats. The reeds in Derbies were metal wire, and were also used around the circumference of the brim. I can only suspect that they were utilized for adding strength to the crown and brim.

Someone seeking the comfort of a soft hat would want to escape the rigidity of the reed, which may explain the difference in usage. I don't know when the monofilament reed started showing up in soft hats, but it seems a compromise between the metal wire and no reed at all; it also was probably a cost issue. Perhaps monofilament reeds were developed during the war years due to lack of metal. Pure speculation on my part.

However, there is something else to consider here -- the role of the reed cloth/reed tape. The majority of sweatbands patents over the last 100 years concern preventing sweat from soaking into the felt and ribbon. Most of these involve putting barriers between the sweaty wearer and the felt, or at least removing the path of least resistance for the sweat. With unreeded sweatbands, sweat has a direct line to the felt by wicking through the attachment thread. Stitching the sweatband to the felt through the reed cloth, as originally used, and reed tape as developed later, instead of through the leather, adds a barrier and prevents the easiest wicking action from taking place. In a black hat such as a Derby, sweat stains look particularly noticeable due to the salt, and so a reed cloth would help with this.

As soft hats came to take the place of Derbies in the 20th century, the methods used to prevent sweat leak-through came to be applied to soft hats, thus, reed and tape.

This is just my working hypothesis.

Brad

 

[ScottF]

...As soft hats came to take the place of Derbies in the 20th century, the methods used to prevent sweat leak-through came to be applied to soft hats, thus, reed and tape.

This is just my working hypothesis.

Brad

Sounds like a good hypothesis. I never feel stress, or walk fast enough to sweat, so your idea never crossed my mind.

 

[Stan]

Hi,

Ah. That all makes sense. I've not ever had a Derby, new or old, so I never knew that there was once a wire reed used long ago. The sweat issue makes sense as well, as the worst of the sweat-stained hats I've run across had unreeded sweatbands.

This place is always good for learning new things about hats.

Later!

Stan

 

[carouselvic]

Reeds were also used to make reeded sweatbands as well.

 

[Sam Craig]

venting

Brad,

I've got a great old Stetson derby, early 1900s, very stiff and it has this maltese cross design in little vent holes in the top of the crown — it's unlined.

As I say, it's a great old hat, and I've always been very careful with it.

I've owned it for 30 years now and only use it for formal wear.

But I'm wondering if the vents really work, or is that just a convention?

I used to do Indian Wars living history and I know some of the campaign hats after the Civil War had vents in the sides of the crowns, but I never knew if they really made a difference.

Surely they couldn't have much of an affect on the sweat issue, or could they?

Whaddya think?[huh]

 

[Brad Bowers]

I have to imagine that they did work to some extent to help remove heat, as so many summer Derbies had them, from all the manufacturers. But, I think sweat would still be a problem, no matter the venting.

Brad

 

[job]

Has any one done a pictorial on this subject.

 

[zetwal]

Has any one done a pictorial on this subject.

Maybe this will help. The top example is unreeded. The leather sweatband is stitched directly to the felt. In the second photo, the sweatband is sown to a reed.

 

[job]

Thanks for the pics. I've never seen a side by side comparison.

 

[zetwal]

Thanks for the pics. I've never seen a side by side comparison.

Sure, no problem. I'm glad that it helped ... :high5:

 

[randooch]

Reeds were also used to make reeded sweatbands as well.

Anyone have any photos of dissected sweatbands showing an actual reed? That would be most interesting.

 

[carouselvic]

real reed

Anyone have any photos of dissected sweatbands showing an actual reed? That would be most interesting.

 

[randooch]

Very cool. Thanks, Vic!