Questions About the United States Navy Peacoat

[Cornelius]

It's a bummer about Sterlingwear. In the world of peacoats this is a small consolation but a great thing over the last year did happen with the company as Boston contracted them to make ton of PPE. https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/08...ry-supplied-navy-peacoats-now-its-making-ppe/

Thanks for posting the link to this Boston Globe story - I hope Sterlingwear was able to make it through the loss of the Navy contract & subsequent pandemic. There's so very few classic US clothing manufacturers left alive...

 

[Peacoat]

Congratulations. You got a fine old coat. This may have been one of the last WWII models issued, if he got it in 1945. When they switched over to the Post WWII coats in, or about, 1945, I imagine there were still the older version coats hanging around.

With the P2P you gave, I think the size is closer to a 36 than a 38/40.

I think these posts would fit rather well in the extant major peacoat thread, so I will move them there.

Welcome to the Lounge. I have been hanging out here for almost 16 years; hope you enjoy it as much as I have.

 

[Peacoat]

@eclipse7309, thank you for the video.

The Navy started phasing out the peacoat in 2018, and phase out was scheduled to be complete by October 1, 2020. The peacoat was still optional, but the sailor would have to buy the coat out of his own funds.

@Cornelius, Sterlingwear didn't survive. Loss of the peacoat was a major blow, but the death knell was Covid19.

 

[Sonero]

Great Info.

Thank You to everyone that responded .

 

[eclipse7309]

Great talking with you all

I have a bridge coat question: Does anyone know when bridge coats went from kersey to melton?

Since my recent acquisition of a WW2/40's peacoat, I'm convinced you just cant beat kersey, and even if that's not the case, I'm just in love with the dark blue compared to the standard black of melton, and I think because of its denser/softer feel, it actually looks a little bit more 'dressed up'.
I have a bridge coat from the Vietnam era, with the contract number in it allegedly putting around 1968. It's a 41R and made by Emerson Clothing Corporation. A very nice coat indeed.
Over the weekend I visited a bunch of thrift stores here in Brooklyn. One of them did have a very old bridge coat that definitely wasn't melton and was almost certainly kersey. The store wasn't well lit so I couldn't be 100% it wasn't black though. I don't remember the manufacturer, but it had a name hand written in the tag, as well as a date of Sept. 1939! It looked and felt amazing, but the shoulders were quite a bit too tight for me, it was probably a 36 or perhaps smaller. (I'm a 38-40 depending on the coat). I may try to track one down online, hence my original question.

Thanks all!

 

[Peacoat]

Great talking with you all

I have a bridge coat question: Does anyone know when bridge coats went from kersey to melton?

Since my recent acquisition of a WW2/40's peacoat, I'm convinced you just cant beat kersey, and even if that's not the case, I'm just in love with the dark blue compared to the standard black of melton, and I think because of its denser/softer feel, it actually looks a little bit more 'dressed up'.
I have a bridge coat from the Vietnam era, with the contract number in it allegedly putting around 1968. It's a 41R and made by Emerson Clothing Corporation. A very nice coat indeed.
Over the weekend I visited a bunch of thrift stores here in Brooklyn. One of them did have a very old bridge coat that definitely wasn't melton and was almost certainly kersey. The store wasn't well lit so I couldn't be 100% it wasn't black though. I don't remember the manufacturer, but it had a name hand written in the tag, as well as a date of Sept. 1939! It looked and felt amazing, but the shoulders were quite a bit too tight for me, it was probably a 36 or perhaps smaller. (I'm a 38-40 depending on the coat). I may try to track one down online, hence my original question.

Thanks all!

@Doctor Damage is the resident bridge coat expert. Below is a link to his guide to bridge coats. He will see this and chime in.

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/forums/the-fedora-lounge-guides.36/page-2

 

[eclipse7309]

@Doctor Damage is the resident bridge coat expert. Below is a link to his guide to bridge coats. He will see this and chime in.

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/forums/the-fedora-lounge-guides.36/page-2

Oh great! Thanks Peacoat. I’ll check that out too.

 

[Peacoat]

Ooops. This link goes right to it. Don't know how the above link got copied.

https://www.thefedoralounge.com/threads/the-fedora-lounge-guide-to-the-u-s-navy-bridge-coat.75504/

 

[Peacoat]

@Doctor Damage I noticed the other day that your guide had some broken image links. Today I went back through it, and all of the links are broken. Don't know what happened, but it's a shame as that was a lot of work.

If you still have the photos, I can open the thread and you can repost them. That would be a better resolution than what we have now.

 

[Bfd70]

Watched youtube above. Bought a 1966. Should be here monday

 

[TheGuitarFairy]

I wore my Dad's peacoat that he got in the service for years till I left it at the counter of some greasy spoon in Montana in the 90s. I've meant to replace it since then but never got around to it till now. Jacket's super clean and is a pleasure to wear. I appreciate all the info shared within these threads!

 

[Peacoat]

I wore my Dad's peacoat that he got in the service for years till I left it at the counter of some greasy spoon in Montana in the 90s. I've meant to replace it since then but never got around to it till now. Jacket's super clean and is a pleasure to wear. I appreciate all the info shared within these threads!
View attachment 381753
View attachment 381755

That is the coveted 1949 model. It has the nicest finish of any of my coats. I have heard the same thing from others who are experienced in peacoats.

Too bad you lost your father's peacoat, but congratulations on getting an excellent replacement.

 

[CityHunter]

Just need some clarification - I came across a peacoat with corduroy pocket lining AND pewter buttons. This thread has taught me many things, including that corduroy pocket lining stopped in 1967, and pewter buttons came out in 1975-76. Since this doesn't line up, is it fairly correct to assume this is a pre-1967 peacoat, but with buttons that were replaced? Or is there any instance of pewter buttons pre-1975?

 

[Peacoat]

Just need some clarification - I came across a peacoat with corduroy pocket lining AND pewter buttons. This thread has taught me many things, including that corduroy pocket lining stopped in 1967, and pewter buttons came out in 1975-76. Since this doesn't line up, is it fairly correct to assume this is a pre-1967 peacoat, but with buttons that were replaced? Or is there any instance of pewter buttons pre-1975?

At some point post 1976, changeover to pewter was required. The buttons on this coat were probably changed during that period.

 

[Doctor Damage]

Great talking with you all

I have a bridge coat question: Does anyone know when bridge coats went from kersey to melton?

I don't know, unfortunately, and can only speculate that it would have been roughly around the time the peacoats changed. But... and it's an important "but"... the bridge coats were always something officers sourced themselves and were not issued. This meant that in the older days they got them from civilian tailors or clothiers who were approved or whatever to provide USN-spec officer clothing. You see a lot of weird tags in old bridge coats, often from so-and-so tailors, and it's only more recently that bridge coats seem to have become a single-sourced item, via USN canteen shops or something (again, working from memory). This is a roundabout way of saying different tailors or clothiers probably switched from kersey to the modern melton cloths when they ran out, not necessarily when the enlisted seamen's peacoats changed. Basically, I don't know, but then I don't think anyone else knows either, including the companies who actually made bridge coats!

 

[Peacoat]

Great talking with you all

I have a bridge coat question: Does anyone know when bridge coats went from kersey to melton?

Your finding a Bridgecoat in what you believe to be a Kersey shell is a bit surprising. As heavy as is the kersey and as long as is the Bridgecoat, I would have thought the Bridgecoat would be uncomfortable to wear with a kersey shell. But 1939 is a long time ago. If I can find the Navy regs from that time period, maybe I can solve the problem.

 

[Peacoat]

After digging through the 1922 and 1941 regs, I found this description in the 1922 regs:

"UNIFORM SPECIFICATIONS—OFFICERS.

281. Frock coat.—(a) For all commissioned and warrant officers.

(b) Material.—Cloth, dark blue (blue black), broadcloth or Kersey finish, Navy standard, 16 ounce. Authorized variations, not lighter than 16 ounce; not heavier than 18 ounce. [Emphasis Added]"

So, the Kersey shell was used, but in a much lighter weight. The standard peacoat weight for the Kersey was 32 oz. The weight for the Bridgecoat is 1/2 that.


The 1941 regulation provides:

"I. Frock Coat.-This garment shall. be a double-breasted frock, blue cloth, double row of five gilt buttons, close fitting, full skirted, reaching to kneecap, rolling collar, open front; io be wom buttoned, using the four lower buttons on the right side. [Emphasis Added]"

So, in 1941 the requirement was for "blue cloth." I looked at a drawing of the coat described in the 1941 regs, and it is identical to the post war peacoat, except for the length of the coat and the number of buttons.

So, it appears to me that in 1941 the requirement that the shell be of Kersey was eliminated. Didn't say it couldn't be used, but it was no longer required. I doubt that any manufacturers would voluntarily use the more expensive Kersey.

 

[Doctor Damage]

So, the Kersey shell was used, but in a much lighter weight. The standard peacoat weight for the Kersey was 32 oz. The weight for the Bridgecoat is 1/2 that.

This makes sense since a full-length coat (bridge coat) is going to be warmer overall and doesn't need as heavy a shell as a 3/4 length coat (peacoat).

So, it appears to me that in 1941 the requirement that the shell be of Kersey was eliminated. Didn't say it couldn't be used, but it was no longer required. I doubt that any manufacturers would voluntarily use the more expensive Kersey.

As I said the other day, most of these old coats seem to have been tailor made by civilian tailors, so I imagine if an officer had $$$ he could get the better cloth!

 

[eclipse7309]

Thank you @Peacoat & @Doctor Damage . I'm not sure if that coat is still at that shop but if I'm able to in the next few days I'll try to swing by that shop and maybe the folks there would allow me to take a couple pics and inspect it a bit more. I'll keep you posted!
Thanks again for the info

 

[eclipse7309]

Good afternoon @Peacoat @Doctor Damage and folks,

I had some free time today and took a trip back to the shop that had that bridge coat. Sure enough it's still there. Lest anyone wonders, the shop is 10 ft. Single by Stella Dallas in Williamsburg / Brooklyn.
As I'm still trying to figure out which Kersey era Peacoat fits & looks best on/for me I have the previously mentioned early 40's peacoat in a sz 40, but I just acquired a size 38 peacoat with a 1949 tag (a bit more on this later), which I wore to the shop today, and will appear in some of the following pics.

Also useful in comparing and figuring out what's up with the seemingly kersey bridge coat, is right next to it was another bridge coat identical to the one I own, which is a black melton one from the late 60's.

Peacoat, for your question about seeing if I could try to verify the weight of the kersey bridge coat, as per the regs you were able to find... When I held each of the two bridge coats from their hangers, it was tough to really notice any difference in overall weight on the coats. The thickness of the fabric also seemed to be pretty similar. However, when comparing either of these to the kersey peacoat I was wearing, the peacoat's fabric did seem a bit thicker, but not by very much. So maybe this kersey was near 24-28oz? Note: owning 2 different kersey peacoats, and comparing with this bridge coat, it seems the smoothness / feel of kersey can differ a bit from garment to garment. I'm sure this has a lot to do with wear and condition as these are all very old garments, but it seems to differ more with kersey than melton, which is very consistently coarse and fuzzy and just about always the same.
Other things to note: the back room where the bridge coats were in the store was not very well lit and all coats appear as black there. I took pictures as best I could of both bridge coats next to each other.
I also took the kersey bridge coat to the front of the store where there is a big window. Comparing the bridge coat to my peacoat which is very obviously blue in natural light, it seemed like the bridge coat was probably actually black, but appeared as what I suppose I'd call a "blue-based-black". It also has one rank stripe right at the cuffs. As you all probably know, it's really tough to photo graph these things and have really any color accuracy. Sometimes black looks blue & vice versa. Nevertheless, here's a few pics. Hopefully the image names make sense, and other observations will be self explanatory in the pics.

On another note! The sz.38 Peacoat I recently acquired with the 1949 naval clothing depot tag has later style, soft/thick, but non corduroy pockets. I'm thinking they must've just been replaced at some point, but interesting to note.
The other thing I thought was a very interesting difference between my early 40's 10 button, and this coat, is the shoulders and sleeve are quite a bit different. I wonder if anyone has noticed / commented on this. the older 10 button has much more pronounced roping at the sleeve head, and the sleeve is bigger/wider, as opposed to the the 1949 tag coat which has softer shoulders and the sleeves seem to be quite a bit slimmer.

Lastly while I'm back on the peacoats, I think I mentioned this a while back, my older 10 button coat has the collar tag which seems pretty rare to find. It's so delicate and it's already coming undone. Any advice to keep it on there? This tag is different than the labels near the pockets; it's an odd and very thin fabric.

Anyway, please discuss, thanks a lot for reading, and if I think of anything else here worth noting, I'll be here!