Question: is de WW2 sheepskin thicker than modern sheepskins?

[zwelgbast]

Loungers,

In the past I owned a WW2 Irvin with a rather thick skin.

Since a few years I'm the proud owner of a repro ELC 'Red Skin' Rough Wear B3 (see pics). The B3 is beautifully made, the quality is superb, and it keeps me warm in my 1944 Ford GPW in te winter, but all together I've the feeling that the skin is a bit more flimsier than my old WW2 Irvin. Is this true? Is WW2 sheepskin heavier than modern sheepskins?

(I definitely have the same feeling of the ELC WarHorse hide: in general thinner than the hides of original A-2's, IMHO that is...)

Hope to hear from you, Loungers!




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[aswatland]

Having handled hundreds of original Irvins and many B3s over the years I can say the actual skin is generally thicker on these wartime jackets than on most repros from ELC or other makers.

 

[Hankh]

BTW welcome to Fedora Zwelgbast.
Hope you will enjoy the Forum as much as I do.
Watch out, lots of addictive stuff overhere!

 

[zwelgbast]

Thanx, Andrew.

Just what I thought: I suppose they make sheep into jackets very fast, before the animals can develop a skin of natural thickness of their own.

Rgds,


Mathew

 

[zwelgbast]

Thanx, Hankh.

By the way, it's to late to warn me: I'm already addicted to the fine goodies of the Golden Era of the 30/40's.

Mathew

 

[kowalski]

it is a matter production techniques and varnish, sheep, cows are the same, no, unless something has changed, unfortunately, when the machines were different, used a less complex technology, no business, marketing and special effects, not to buy in the store, is now nice, fragrant, and is matched

 

[zwelgbast]

My dear fellow lounger Kowalski,

I got the impression that in modern times, animals aren't allowed to grow mature anymore before being butchered. Perhaps sheep are also solely bred indoors; a thick skin is therefore not 'needed'.

As I understand it you are the opinion that thin skins are caused by modern techniques in tanning?

Is there in Poland still a traditional tanning industry?

Greetz,


Matthew

 

[kowalski]

,, reply; thin skins are caused by modern techniques in tanning?,, I know, asked a man working in tanning, Not, in Poland there is no traditional tanning industry, still i looking for those who, in this way produces


I gave a man working in the tannery original b3, and asked if he is able to do the same thing, he replied that such equipment is not able to produce it, there is simply no such dyes and machinery, said , that these jackets (B3 ,irvin) have lot of manual labor

 

[zwelgbast]

Ah, I see.

Thanks for your reply, mr Kowalski!


Rgds,


Mathew

 

[Fletch]

Are we talking skin, what's on the outside...or fleece, what's on the inside?

Fleece thickness is important to me because I just picked up a handsome Aero B-3 in the pre-WW2 "redskin" (russet dyed sheep). But the fleece is uniformly 3/4" deep. The collar swallows up your head and shoulders - not at all like in the old pix - and it's a real chore to bend your arms or move around.

 

[ButteMT61]

Man, that's a beautiful jacket!!! So jealous. Tell me more please. Tempt me!

Loungers,

In the past I owned a WW2 Irvin with a rather thick skin.

Since a few years I'm the proud owner of a repro ELC 'Red Skin' Rough Wear B3 (see pics). The B3 is beautifully made, the quality is superb, and it keeps me warm in my 1944 Ford GPW in te winter, but all together I've the feeling that the skin is a bit more flimsier than my old WW2 Irvin. Is this true? Is WW2 sheepskin heavier than modern sheepskins?

(I definitely have the same feeling of the ELC WarHorse hide: in general thinner than the hides of original A-2's, IMHO that is...)

Hope to hear from you, Loungers!




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[zwelgbast]

Are we talking skin, what's on the outside...or fleece, what's on the inside?

We're talking skin: the fleece is fine. The skin is thinner than an original WW2 B3, and more vunerable I'm afraid.

Rgds,

Mathew

 

[zwelgbast]

My dear Mr. Butte:


I own a 1944 jeep, and I like to wear the clothes of the period in that vehicle. In winter that should be an B3, so I thought. After carefull consideration I chose the Eastman Rough Wear contract 'red skin'. It's the prewar version of the B3, with honey coulored fleece in stead of the later war white fleece, which I don't like much. I also like the handmade red skinning of the jacket. IMHO it's the finest B3 red skin repro available. While refueling the 'truck' (for a willys MB/ Ford GPW IS a truck), the right sleeve did have a nasty encounter with a rusty jerry can: put some Peckard's on the spot, and that was that.
It's a size 46 with an extra 1,5 inch on the body. I could have ordered a size 44, but I wanted to have the option of wearing fat and bulky sheepskin sweaters underneath the B3. In very cold days I also wear a (NOS) A-10 flight trousers in the jeep: these warm Apalca-lined flight gear (late WW2?) are to be had for USD 40,- or less in the US (Ebay).

I noticed the thinner skin of my B3 in comparison with WW2 sheepskins, and that's why I posed the question in the thread.

By the way: I really LOVE American made products of the 30's and 4o's: the qualty is outstanding, wether it's a 1944 Willys MB, a WW2 Garand, a Bronco A-2, or an Elgin A-11 watch. The fact that the latter in most cases still are servicable says it all...

Rgds,


Matthew



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[bumphrey hogart]

As far as I understand it, it's nothing to do with the skin itself,but how the skin is treated.There are no indoor bred sheep and a sheep grows wool to protect itself from the elements,it doesn't thicken its' skin,think about it,no animal can change physical features in that space of time.When these jackets were first made they were made for high altitude bomber pilots,flying in freezing conditions and were purely utilitarian work clothes.
Now,any copies regardless how 'authentic' the details are have to be 'fashion' jackets,no-one is using them for flying bombers,people are wearing them to the pub and it's useful to be able to bend your arm to get your glass from the bar to your mouth.It's just the thickness of the varnishes and coatings not the skin itself.If they made them like the originals today most people would find them too uncomfortable to wear,don't forget, if you find an original in reasonable condition it's been around for 70 years,and it still feels more substantial than your repro,imagine how much more substantial it would've felt.

 

[Baron Kurtz]

not sure if the observation is universal, but original American sheepskin jackets seem to me much flimsier and less resistant to damage that British sheepskin of a similar era.

bk

 

[zwelgbast]

Baron, Mr. Hogart,

I gather from your comments that the thickness of an Irvin is due to varnishes and coatings, and that American made sheepskin jacket generally are more flimsier than WW2 Irvins. There are no more worries here about my ELC B3: I thank you, gentlemen!

Rgds,

Mathew

 

[ButteMT61]

Thank you, Matthew! Love stories like this. Love your choice of vehicle too. My young son and I have looked at a few during some WWII reenactments. Would love one as a second vehicle.
Being from Montana, I am a "weather guy" in that I enjoy the elements. Since being in California, I miss that.

Have a great day!
Scott

My dear Mr. Butte:


I own a 1944 jeep, and I like to wear the clothes of the period in that vehicle. In winter that should be an B3, so I thought. After carefull consideration I chose the Eastman Rough Wear contract 'red skin'. It's the prewar version of the B3, with honey coulored fleece in stead of the later war white fleece, which I don't like much. I also like the handmade red skinning of the jacket. IMHO it's the finest B3 red skin repro available. While refueling the 'truck' (for a willys MB/ Ford GPW IS a truck), the right sleeve did have a nasty encounter with a rusty jerry can: put some Peckard's on the spot, and that was that.
It's a size 46 with an extra 1,5 inch on the body. I could have ordered a size 44, but I wanted to have the option of wearing fat and bulky sheepskin sweaters underneath the B3. In very cold days I also wear a (NOS) A-10 flight trousers in the jeep: these warm Apalca-lined flight gear (late WW2?) are to be had for USD 40,- or less in the US (Ebay).

I noticed the thinner skin of my B3 in comparison with WW2 sheepskins, and that's why I posed the question in the thread.

By the way: I really LOVE American made products of the 30's and 4o's: the qualty is outstanding, wether it's a 1944 Willys MB, a WW2 Garand, a Bronco A-2, or an Elgin A-11 watch. The fact that the latter in most cases still are servicable says it all...

Rgds,


Matthew



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[alfyman]

Your jacket in the Photo looks glossy and strong on the outer shell, I used to have one similar bought in the US years ago, now I have a jacket that has really thick sheepfur but less gloss on the outer imported from Britain, I think it may have to do with the kind of sheep and where they graze. "just a guess"...http://

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[zwelgbast]

Thanks for your kind reply, Scott!

(the Ford GPW is shown in photo below: at the 6th of june '44 headquarters of gen Maxwell Taylor 101AB in Hiesville, Normandy)

Alfyman: that's a fine looking jacket you got there. Looking good and snuggy on you. I like the non-shining shell (although I'm very pleased with my Red skin finish). The shiny surface is wearing of a bit, by the way, due to the hard canvas seats of the Ford GPW jeep.



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[ButteMT61]

Great pic! Thank you for posting these.

Thanks for your kind reply, Scott!

(the Ford GPW is shown in photo below: at the 6th of june '44 headquarters of gen Maxwell Taylor 101AB in Hiesville, Normandy)

Alfyman: that's a fine looking jacket you got there. Looking good and snuggy on you. I like the non-shining shell (although I'm very pleased with my Red skin finish). The shiny surface is wearing of a bit, by the way, due to the hard canvas seats of the Ford GPW jeep.



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