Question: Age of vintage Stetson?

[Artie]

Looking at all of the posts so far I think we could condense the whole discussion down to a pretty good guess of between 48 and 55 as a date for this hat, and I'm talking about Tom's hat not mine.

 

[GWD]

June 2nd 1955, 11:53am pst. That's my final answer!

 

[TomS]

Update: The hat is Canadian made...

So, having said that it's Canadian made how would that effect the date?
Thanks for all the help so far!!
Best,
Tom

 

[Artie]

Too late, GWD already settled it!:eusa_clap

 

[gtdean48]

Canadian made, that hat is much younger than 1951. That hat has HFM stenciled in the sweatband, right?

 

[ScottF]

Canadian made, that hat is much younger than 1951. That hat has HFM stenciled in the sweatband, right?

Agreed - if I had to put an exact date on it, I'd go with 1957.

Scott is the one who connected the foil tag with 50s Canadian. I don't have anything with that tag or know anything about it.

Not exactly what I said. The hat looks fifties to me. The fact that it has a foil tag, AND looks fifties means Canadian. The reason for this is that foil tags like this were gone from U.S. Stetsons by the end of the thirties...and this is NOT a thirties hat.

Like most of these discussions, no babies are dying, so we're all cool; however, there are a few facts we know about Stetsons, so we might as well share those.

...regarding those foil tags, on U.S. Stetsons. I have paper tags that look just like them, on Stetson hats that are definitely mid-30s, so to me that means that unless there was a foil/paper overlap, the foil tags on U.S. Stetsons were gone by the mid-30s. Anyone have additional info on that?

 

[carouselvic]

....regarding those foil tags, on U.S. Stetsons. I have paper tags that look just like them, on Stetson hats that are definitely mid-30s, so to me that means that unless there was a foil/paper overlap, the foil tags on U.S. Stetsons were gone by the mid-30s. Anyone have additional info on that?

Here is Royal Stetson with the gold tag. US Patent office put Stetson's first use of this trademark as 1935(I forget the month). So I know it was around for a while past the mid-30's. We know that logo did not survive WWII.


Sept.12 1935 First used

 

[GWD]

I edited my "typo" above.

 

[gtdean48]

I edited my "typo" above.

lol lol

 

[GWD]

By the way, I love your new Avatar, GWD. Is that character someone you made up? I don't recognize him -

Seriously? That's Stewie Griffin from "The Family Guy" it's an "Adult Humor" Cartoon.

 

[zetwal]

Never seen it. I'll have to check it out!

 

[GWD]

If you don't like it, don't blame me lol it's a guilty pleasure.

 

[ScottF]

Here is Royal Stetson with the gold tag. US Patent office put Stetson's first use of this trademark as 1935(I forget the month). So I know it was around for a while past the mid-30's. We know that logo did not survive WWII.


Sept.12 1935 First used

That is very interesting. There must have been overlap between paper and foil. Also, oldest mention I can find of a 'Royal' is March, 1936, but that was for a fedora, not a bowler, and my notes say that the hat interior pics you just posted are from a bowler (keeping good notes )

Those Stetson marketing people didn't make anything easy for future generations.

 

[carouselvic]

I don't know that this tag is of foil, but of a gold ink perhaps. Something other than the yellow manila card stock of later hang tags. Yes it is a bowler, The Stetsonian. The back of the tag is white colored card stock.

 

[ScottF]

I don't know that this tag is of foil, but of a gold ink perhaps. Something other than the yellow manila card stock of later hang tags. Yes it is a bowler, The Stetsonian

I just posted pics of a '30s Stetson No.1 with a paper tag, but like yours, while it's not foil, it's not that later card stock either...maybe it's something transitional?

 

[carouselvic]

I edited my previous post.

 

[jimmy the lid]

Hi Folks:

I have been reading some of the posts on dating a vintage Stetson by looking at the liner. I'm thinking my hat is probaly from the 1950s, but I'm pretty much clueless on the subject! I was wondering if one fo the experts might be able to suggest a more accurate age?

I appreciate the help, thanks!

B/R,
Tom

Welcome to the Lounge, Tom S. It is nice to see someone new here doing their homework by checking out the various threads dedicated to dating vintage Stetsons. And, I think that your work has paid off -- your conclusion that the hat likely dates from the 1950's is accurate, I think.

Here's how I would approach your question:

First, let's put to the side the American/Canadian distinction. We'll get back to that -- but, for now, let's analyze things as if the hat were of U.S. manufacture.

It is hard to tell much from the logo itself. A clearer close-up of the liner logo would be very helpful and would allow for a more careful comparison with other liners for which we have dates.

That being said, I think that the most telling aspect of the liner is the clear plastic protector. That feature is completely consistent with a 1950's Stetson. It is inconsistent with a 40's Stetson. As far as I have been able to discern, the switchover from oil silk liner protectors to plastic liner protectors occurred in the 1952-54 timeframe. The switch had definitely occurred by 1954.

The reeded sweat (it is not cloth, by the way) is consistent with Stetsons from at least the late 40's onward. Needless to say, this makes it consistent with a 50's Stetson.

It would be very useful to have close-up photos of any logos appearing on the sweat itself. This would also allow for a comparison of the components of the crests as a possible dating tool (this really needs to be done in tandem in terms of looking at the liner and sweat crests together).

All of that being said, I think it would be very fair to date your lid as circa 1955 -- which covers the timeframe from 1953 to 1957. An examination of the kinds of photos I have suggested might allow for a nudge in one direction or the other.

Now, let's put Canada back into the mix. I'm not so sure that Canadian logos/liners necessarily differed much from their U.S. counterparts at any particular point in time. I do believe it is true that, as Dinerman suggests, certain logos or liners might have been used for longer periods of time in Canadian Stetsons. That is certainly true for certain quality designations (witness my Canadian "Select" Stratoliner). So, perhaps there is an argument that the date on this lid might extend beyond the timeframe I have suggested. But, all in all, I think that circa 1955 is a pretty fair bet.

Remember, none of us was around to watch these hats roll off the line. So, the best we can do is to make some educated guesses based upon the best evidence available. As a general matter, the best evidence is supplied by examining hats with known dates, and then extrapolating based upon the particular features found on those hats. The more precise we all are in adhering to that principle, and the more that we add to our collective knowledge by sharing that information -- the better able we are to come up with some fairly good notions about dating our vintage Stetsons.

Cheers,
JtL

 

[GWD]

Edited my earlier post, tsk tsk, two typos for the same date. Just call me butterfingers.

 

[TomS]

Thanks for all the help!

Hi Folks:

I appreciate all of the help, thanks! This is obviously a great forum, and the knowledge of the members is amazing!!

The hat is inbound, so I can't post any other pics at the moment; When it arrives I'll post further.

Thanks again,
Tom

 

[gtdean48]

...
The hat is inbound, so I can't post any other pics at the moment; When it arrives I'll post further.

Tom, if that hat is a near pristine, Canadian made Open Road with HFM stamped into the sweatband, I have 2 others from that same estate. The wear pattern on the back of the sweatband below the bow & size tag where sweatband joins looks familiar as it does appear to have HFM stamped but hard to see from that angle.