Question about Indiana Jones

[Marc Chevalier]

The decline in hat wearing among men began before WWI.

I've got a trade magazine article from the early 1930s in which hat industry CEOs suggest ways to encourage men to once again wear hats. I'll post the article here next week.

.

 

[BlindeMan]

Propagating that "JFK Killed Hats" claptrap will get you ejected forthwith.

NO PRESIDENT wore a hat during the speech, because no one elected to such a high office has ever been that big an oaf.

Well, I don't know about that... but point taken.

Back on topic: Here is a crowd of people gathered at a Labor Day picnic in Massachusetts circa 1957. Note that a good number of male heads are covered by the chapeau that we love so well (too well?)

And - this comes from a person who grew up with and loves the Indiana Jones Movies (Yes, even the last one): this is a series of movies where a bunch of Nazis have their faces burned off by the Ark of the Covenant, where a Thuggee cultist can tear the still-living heart out of a still-living human being, where a man can survive a nuclear blast by hiding in a lead-lined fridge... Are we really going to call foul because too many people are wearing fedoras in the year 1957? Just a thought.

 

[Pat_H]

I've got a trade magazine article from the early 1930s in which hat industry CEOs suggest ways to encourage men to once again wear hats. I'll post the article here next week.

.

Look forward to it!

 

[Pat_H]

Bowlers in London, 1967

A pack of Bowler sporting British businessmen in 1967:

http://tbn0.google.com/hosted/images/c?q=c21c9857659212e5_landing

 

[Pat_H]

The real decline of the hat, and the returning rise of the hat.

Propagating that "JFK Killed Hats" claptrap will get you ejected forthwith.

For the eleventy hundredth time, he wore, carried, and was photographed carrying and wearing a topper on inauguration day. He remarked about how much he LIKED it.
NO PRESIDENT wore a hat during the speech, because no one elected to such a high office has ever been that big an oaf.

The decline in hat wearing among men began before WWI.

Dating it back prior to WWI is particularly interesting. I was under the impression that the decline started in the inter war period, with the rise of the automobile.

That takes us back to the actual decline of the hat. What caused it? It would seem that, perhaps, in someways it simply reflected the increasingly urban nature of employment. The US was still heavily rural prior to WWI, and even after, but that was declining. Declining with that would likely have been rural knowledge, including that hat are protection.

As we've shown that JFK did not kill the hat, that hat's were still being worn, although decreasing as required wear post WWII, I wonder if we can take the final dip in hat wearing to the overall decline in the dress code that occurred in the late 60s, and continued on throughout the 70s, and on to today. Prior to 1965 or so, more or less, there was an informal dress code, and it was certainly the case that people were expected to dress in a certain way in certain settings. After that, or after a little later, that was no longer true. What at first started off as rebellion against standards ultimately became next to no standard, and some have commented from time to time that Americans are now the sloppiest dressers in the industrialized world. As an example of that, if you can find rather disheveled folks walking around in public in gym clothes, who obviously aren't coming to or going to the gym, you are viewing rather relaxed standards, for good or ill. To put it another way, try as we might, we had a heck of a time fairly recenlty from getting a young 20 something worker, in a professional setting, to dress as if she wasn't going to the gym.

Be that as it may, it might be the case that the collapse of the dress standard has now caused, about three days after the collapse, a situation where Fedoras can now be worn in any setting. Of course, that was always true, as they were the most versatile and utilitarian of men's hats. But I do think we're once again at the point where people can wear them, after a long interval, without being regarded as being in costume. And they seem to be rebounding as formal wear, if the folks on the morning news shows are any guide.

 

[scotrace]

Indeed, there were numerous contributors to the trend of going out without a head covering. Hatless Jack makes the case the the trend was begun around 1910 by women who began leaving those big inverted meat platter hats at home when going to the (live or movie) theatre; they were simply in the way. In the 1920's, college men, paying increasing attention to looking casual and their hair, went hatless as a bit of rebellion (the 1920's make the 1960's look Victorian, when you look at the dramatic changes in society that occurred due to youth culture). The Great Depression meant no one had spare change to have hats maintained, which was and is expensive. Returning WW2 vets just sort of stopped wearing hats, in respectable numbers. Cars got lower. Hat checks dunned a guy for nickels all day long. Hair got longer. The Dry Look meant Hat Head and didn't go well with a fedora. Ball caps became the norm. It's not that hats went out of style, it's that ball caps replaced brimmed hats, just as toppers replaced tri-corns, bowlers replaced toppers, fedoras and soft caps replaced bowlers (all VERY generally speaking).
And as we all know, toting a hat can be a pain in the neck.
JFK reflected the general feeling of his generation, he did not begin the trend, or even advance it all that much.
There is also evidence that the decline in brimmed hat wearing follows the corresponding rise in cancers of the face and neck.

 

[Pat_H]

There is also evidence that the decline in brimmed hat wearing follows the corresponding rise in cancers of the face and neck.

The decline in hat wearing also follows a bit of a decline in awareness of the danger of the elements, which ties into this. Hats started off as practical, and for the most part, at least with men's hats most have a practical origin. The ball cap may be the easiest to pack around, but it also affords the least protection. For people who spend time in the sun, which is a lot of people, the decline in the brimmed hat has had a definite negative impact.

In heavily rural areas, people are still aware of this, and you'll often here parents admonish their children to "put your hat on", for concerns like this.

 

[Fatdutchman]

I was just flipping through the TV channels and came across Jimmy Stuart in the 1958 movie "Vertigo" wearing a nice brown fedora. For adult men in the '50's, sure. For younger men/teenagers...not likely.

In "Dirty Harry" (which was 1973, I think, or thereabouts), I remember a scene where several local citizens were milling around the shooting scene, and two or three of them were wearing fedoras....

 

[Michaelshane]

The majority of men wear hats today ..............ballcaps.They don't wear them with suits but most men don't wear suits.

 

[Queue]

The majority of men wear hats today ..............ballcaps.They don't wear them with suits but most men don't wear suits.

I don't know if it's a majority but there are quite a few... wouldn't be so bad if they were on forward and straight. I have almost had to physically stop myself from straightening a cap or two and pulling up some sadly sagging trousers. A fashion trend of my generation that I truly cannot fathom.

 

[Diamondback]

fftopic:

Are we really going to call foul because too many people are wearing fedoras in the year 1957? Just a thought.

No, but as a railroad specialist I'm gonna call foul on that gold-lettered Pullman Green heavyweight railcar... 1957 is well into the "Streamlined Era" if not the beginning of the "Endgame Stage", so on the New Haven RR out of New London most of the traffic would have been streamlined cars in either stainless or NH black-and-red IIRC. Even if it was a Pullman Company "pool car", most of those were repainted into New York Central-style two-tone gray around '53...

 

[dschonn]

One thing that has always prevented me from taking Indiana Jones seriously as a period piece is that everybody's hair has the dry look. In the thirties. I noticed this more or less subconsciously within the first few times I saw the movies (I was quite young, but had seen enough Cary Grant movies to have an idea of how men really did their hair back then), and has bothered me ever since my conscious mind noticed what was wrong.

I don't watch Indiana Jones for historical accuracy.

 

[dr greg]

no slouch

Can I just reignite the passions of the trainspotters here by pointing out that Indy's outfit was modelled on the costume of Charlton Heston in that Inca movie, and that was an Aussie slouch hat, ergo, the famous fedora is a poor substitute in the films for 'the dinkum article'!

 

[Pat_H]

The majority of men wear hats today ..............ballcaps.They don't wear them with suits but most men don't wear suits.

True, but most men who wear suits now, and it's quite a few, don't wear Fedoras. Indeed, hat knowledge is such that you'll see all sorts of hats worn with suits, if a person feels the need to wear a hat with a suit, including baseball caps, which looks rather odd.

 

[Pat_H]

I don't watch Indiana Jones for historical accuracy.

I agree, we certainly shouldn't expect that.

However, as wildly off the mark as some things in these films are (and they are, analyzing the German military as depicted in these films is a real field day opportunity for thread counters, to be sure), they do actually serve the purpose of sparking an historical interest in some young folks. The tv series, Young Indian Jones, which we've discussed here before is the same way, although it's better in terms of being less wild, and incorporating real historical characters.

Either will break down in careful analysis, but then they're not supposed to be documentaries, nor even serious drama, so they're not bad in their genre.

 

[BlindeMan]

fftopic:
No, but as a railroad specialist I'm gonna call foul on that gold-lettered Pullman Green heavyweight railcar... 1957 is well into the "Streamlined Era" if not the beginning of the "Endgame Stage", so on the New Haven RR out of New London most of the traffic would have been streamlined cars in either stainless or NH black-and-red IIRC. Even if it was a Pullman Company "pool car", most of those were repainted into New York Central-style two-tone gray around '53...

As long as we're going off topic, check out the Internet Movie Databases list of Crystal Skull flubs and goofs, many of which are anachronisms. I'm surprised at how many there are... but, then again, I've never tried to film a period movie.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0367882/goofs

And as a specialist in human anatomy, there is NO way that Major Toht's face would have melted off like that when exposed to an opened Ark of the Covenant...

 

[thecoolmiester]

hmmm, never really thought about that. [huh]

 

[avedwards]

I don't watch Indiana Jones for historical accuracy.

The point of Indiana Jones is that very little of it is set in civilian areas, therefore the costumes are only a minor aspect. In the jungle or the desert there is no dress code. And Indy's hat is definitely right for the 30s setting of the first three films.

 

[Lefty]

Accuracy, schmaccuracy. Indy sold a load of hats.

Stetson's 1984 Fall catalog

 

[gtdean48]

The point of Indiana Jones is that very little of it is set in civilian areas, therefore the costumes are only a minor aspect. In the jungle or the desert there is no dress code. And Indy's hat is definitely right for the 30s setting of the first three films.

Good point, because Indy is leaving civilization for the far reaches of the world for anitquities, up to date fashion trends won't apply. He'd stick out in Paris or NYC. Heck, in my home town well into the late 60's hats were common place among all of my grandfather's generation & most of my father's, who was too young for WW2 & did his hitch in the Air Force as Korea ended. My hometown was at least 15 years behind the times during the 1960's & only really caught up with proliferation of cable TV & the WWW!