Putting it all together

[Mark from Plano]

That is my point. It is very well accepted that Grey Flannels, a browntweed/wool jacket and brown shoes go together, however, a grey suit with brown shoes is frowned upon!

Ben

I also think that there are regional issues at play here as well. Brown shoes are frowned upon in London full stop (as I understand it--"No Brown in Town"), but are considered quite fashionable in other places. You must know these rules if you are going to do business in London and don't want to be considered a rube. In many places outside the UK brown shoes with a grey suit might well be considered acceptable for all but the most formal situations (I selected black shoes with my grey suit for my sister-in-law's wedding this weekend, for example).

 

[benstephens]

Yes, No Brown in Town, there is a punch cartoon in the 1930s with a chap sitting on a park bench and his shoes are brown. He is being looked upon in disgust by another chap walking past. Punch were very good at finding sartorial humour at the rules people adhered to for dress. Many cartoons such as the "Man Who..." and the "importance of not being an alien" depicted people wearing the wrong clothing for the wrong social event, normally with there contemporises looking on in aghast.

However, I am unsure if London is now so strict, you certainly see a lot of brown shoes in town now.

Ben

 

[dr greg]

leprechauns

For men I've always understood the rule to be, wear brown shoes with brown suits & black shoes with everything else.

I've got a green suit that copes very well with brown shoes! But the rule is pretty solid otherwise, and remember, only one pattern at a time.

 

[mike]

My husband firmly believes that people see the same color differently. SO go with what you like.

Speaking as one of the color-blinded, I sadly have to agree with him!
I find this issue VERY frustrating!
I used to dress mainly in gray scale (+ 1 color) to make it idiot proof for me.
Now I'm boldly venturing outside of that...
-tears of the colorblind clown

 

[herringbonekid]

...and remember, only one pattern at a time.

classic example of a 'rule' that should be knocked on the head.

as for grey and brown, i think they look fine together, but don't really do much for each other either. some colour combinations such as grey and burgundy really compliment each other, but grey and brown seem a bit like grumpy old friends. better if they're quite contrasty in tone i think.

 

[Rooster]

Colors...I sometimes have a difficult time with them. What I like together some others cringe in horror. One of my favorites in blue and brown together. Blue suit and brown shoes, hat and tie. I'll stick light grey pants with about anything to and think it looks swell.

 

[Edward]

Sometimes I wonder how many of the supposed classic clothing "rules" were for real, and how many are a faux-classic, modern affectation that has crept into the collective (sub)concious. Much the same as how many of the supposedly ancient Scottish tartans and so on were actually inventions of the Celtic revival period in the late 19th Century as opposed to the pre-Highland Clearance, genuine article. Bear in mind that in all probability most of us today are better off than folks would have been back in the 30s or 40s, with more disposable income and better wardrobes. My personal view tends towards the Baron's slant on things: experiement and see what works. Of course this can lead to some howlers, but that's how you learn (I still regret the day eight and a half years ago when I went out in matching brown shirt and trousers, and blue peacoat, just didn't work for me, and left me with a mortal fear of mixing blue and brown. That said, the number of folks on here who do it well has convinced me it's not something to rule out ad infinitum). Naturally we don't all have anywhere near as\extensive a suit collection as the good Baron (very impressive, Sir!), but nonetheless I think there's always room to experiment. Do it at home in the evening - see what looks good together. Take some tips from the photos of those on the FL who do it so well - the ladies have been doing this for generations, why shouldn't we men catch up?

Start with a few classic looks, say one really good suit, try different colour shirts and tie combinations, see what works with a pocket square, and shoes.... One rule that I do think is sound is matching the belt (brown or black) to the shoes. But in general, I'd think of "rules" as not so much hard and fast rules as advice.

However, I am unsure if London is now so strict, you certainly see a lot of brown shoes in town now.

As memory serves, the old rule was "Black for town, in country - brown." I don't know its origin or the thinking behind it, but I would suggest that it had something to do with the idea of black being more formal, brown being something relaxed. Bearing in mind that many of these so-called rules evolved out of the upper and upper-middle classes who would probably have been in the city through the week, then off to the country estate at the weekend to do a spot of game shooting or fishing. I'm figuring too that in the 30s it would have been de riguer for those worknig in the City of London to be turning up for work in a stroller...?

In London today, you certainly do see a lot of brown. The big trend of the past 12 months or so seems to have been very dark navy or black pinstripe suits with relatively conservative ties, light shirts (pink I've seen a lot of, as well as blues, ivories and so on), and light tan coloured shoes. The tan and navy combination I'm not convinced of for myself, but it's certainly around as a fashion thing. There don't seem to be so many 'rules' being followed, though it does seems to me that you see certain tribal characteristics - e.g. the lawyers I see around the courts tend to dress very classic, whereas City trader types you can pick out by their more modern cuts, bright shirts, wide splayed shirt collars and tie knots the size of a fist. lol

 

[Rooster]

Watch Jimmie Stewart in "Virtigo" . He's forever mixing blues and browns together. If it's OK for him I figure it's OK for me.

 

[Forgotten Man]

Browns with blues and grays with browns.

Now, this is a tough one... but, it can be very easy! That is, if you know the fundamentals.

In paring up a sport outfit, contrasting trousers with a different colored coat, well, it is important to remember that a good solid contrast is key to making most color combos work!

A dark brown suit coat would look swell with a light warm or cool gray color... as long as it's light in color! This is the same if the coat is a light gray color and the pants are dark brown.

Brown with blue... be careful! It could make or break your outfit! This combo was done quite often in the 30's. A dark slate blue with a cool medium brown could work... mostly just light accents such as a neck tie with a dark slate blue or navy blue. cool medium brown suit could work wonders with a rich deep blue tie as well. As for matching different pants with different coats, you want a rather strong contrast. Navy or deep blue with light tan or mocha colored pants could work well.

Black and brown... not a good idea! Just because a brown hat may have a black ribbon, doesn’t indicate that black pants with a brown suit coat would work well. Now, if the coat was black and the pants a very light shade of mocha/brown... maybe but, I would just rule out black all together and the reason being, black comes off as a very dressy shade and brown is associated with more of a casual feeling. So, the two conflict with each other.

Remember, dark with light or light with dark! Go for a strong contrast!

 

[The Wingnut]

But in general, I'd think of "rules" as not so much hard and fast rules as advice.

...more what you'd call guidelines than actual rules. Welcome aboard the Black Pearl, Miss Turner .

I'm continually tempted to combine a rust-colored checked '30s tie with my green '30s pinstripe suit...but oh, that infernal stripes and checks 'rule'!

Pfah! YARRRRRR.

 

[Forgotten Man]

I'm continually tempted to combine a rust-colored checked '30s tie with my green '30s pinstripe suit...but oh, that infernal stripes and checks 'rule'!

Pfah! YARRRRRR.

Do it! I'm sure it would look great!

I recall someone telling me that polka-dot ties are wrong with striped suits... then almost in every 40's movie I see striped suits with polka-dot or checked ties... just cuz your suit has stripes, didn't mean your tie had to! lol

 

[Baron Kurtz]

With good harmony of dot spacing and stripe spacing it can look great. And - of course - with nice colour balance added into the mix i think polkas and stripes are a match made in . . . well heaven is a bit of a stretch but some kind of sartorial wonderland.

bk

 

[Mark from Plano]

Look, I think that over the years different people have come up with different rules that were designed to "dumb down" these matters to a level where the common guy couldn't possibly mess it up (e.g. "two plains and a fancy").

These were rules only in the sense that if you don't know what you're doing it keeps you safe (off the "thin ice", as it were). Hence, no browns with grey or no brown with blue even though we all know that the sartially adept have been matching such colors and matching multiple patterns deftly for years.

Is it in Flusser's book where he shows a picture of Fred Astaire and points out that if we assume that Astaire was wearing argyle socks (as he often did) that it was an amazing example of matching five different patterns? Fred wasn't violating a "rule" against more than one pattern. That rule is for amateurs. For pros the world is a much broader place.

If you're going to set down rules, they must be set down based on the skill level of the audience. Someone who has no skill in pattern matching might be well served by the "two plains and a fancy" or by not mixing grey and brown. Those who are a bit more adept can pursue their sartorial adventures using a more sophisticated set of rules such as the ones Flusser or Antongiovanni or Apparel Arts have set down.

Does this mean that there are no rules or that rules are bad. Absolutely not! Mixing a plaid tie, plaid shirt and plaid suit is unlikely to have a good outcome no matter who is trying to pull it off. But there are rules that make sense for the sartorially inexperienced and rules that make sense for those who's matching skills are a bit more refined. Both are bound by rules, but the rules are different.

 

[Mr. Rover]

With good harmony of dot spacing and stripe spacing it can look great. And - of course - with nice colour balance added into the mix i think polkas and stripes are a match made in . . . well heaven is a bit of a stretch but some kind of sartorial wonderland.

bk

How did I do a page back?

 

[Mr. Rover]

Look, I think that over the years different people have come up with different rules that were designed to "dumb down" these matters to a level where the common guy couldn't possibly mess it up (e.g. "two plains and a fancy").

These were rules only in the sense that if you don't know what you're doing it keeps you safe (off the "thin ice", as it were). Hence, no browns with grey or no brown with blue even though we all know that the sartially adept have been matching such colors and matching multiple patterns deftly for years.

Is it in Flusser's book where he shows a picture of Fred Astaire and points out that if we assume that Astaire was wearing argyle socks (as he often did) that it was an amazing example of matching five different patterns? Fred wasn't violating a "rule" against more than one pattern. That rule is for amateurs. For pros the world is a much broader place.

If you're going to set down rules, they must be set down based on the skill level of the audience. Someone who has no skill in pattern matching might be well served by the "two plains and a fancy" or by not mixing grey and brown. Those who are a bit more adept can pursue their sartorial adventures using a more sophisticated set of rules such as the ones Flusser or Antongiovanni or Apparel Arts have set down.

Does this mean that there are no rules or that rules are bad. Absolutely not! Mixing a plaid tie, plaid shirt and plaid suit is unlikely to have a good outcome no matter who is trying to pull it off. But there are rules that make sense for the sartorially inexperienced and rules that make sense for those who's matching skills are a bit more refined. Both are bound by rules, but the rules are different.

But remember, we are dealing with an amateur. Cary Grant even had to start somewhere before he started experimenting.

 

[AcridSaint]

Hi folks, I'm really glad to see all of the responses in this topic. I hadn't expected quite the activity. I want to thank everyone for the opinions and advice!

I still think the rules are good to put out there and maybe put some reasoning behind them, maybe even follow up with a good example of breaking them. They really are out there for folks like me, I can play it safe because of them. I guess now it's just working a little ways outside of the box that I need to do :eusa_doh:

 

[Baron Kurtz]

he he. There's a few of us with bees in bonnets re: the "rules".

I guess the reason this thread got so many responses is that the particular piece of advice being discussed is so lacking in credibility. I can see why black and brown, let's say, would be a dangerous combo. But grey and brown? I've never (that is to say: not once) seen it look bad. I cannot understand why there would be rules against the combination.

bk

 

[reetpleat]

Haas someone posted the two thirties trends of wearing a black hat with a brown suit, and brown suede shoes with grey?

Both can work very well, but part of the appeal was to be iconoclastic in a devil may care way. Many adverts and esquire sketches showed this.

As far as palids or checks with stripes, hard but possible. HOwvere, I feel that ties and simple pinstripes do not really count all that much. A polka dot or plaid or check or patterned tie will not clas as much as a same shirt or vest or some such will. Also, a simple pinstripe in a suit will not clash all that much as say a busy stripe will or a striped shirt.

I see no problem with a patterned tie with a pnistriped suit if it looks good.

My ultimate philosophy for myself is, i stand in front of a mirror and if it looks good to me, I go with it. I do happen to think I have a good eye. many people should not do this. But they could probably learn.

My eye comes by nature I suppose coupled with many hours of expirimenting, observing and considering. Ultimately, it will be up to your eye and the observers eye. But most people will react the same. A clash will clash to most people. Things that shouldn't but do work will work for most people. There is something inherently pleasing or not pleasing to the eye about most color combinations or or patterns combinations.

I do consider clashing to be when colors are too close. Colors should complement or match, not almost.

 

[Edward]

I do consider clashing to be when colors are too close. Colors should complement or match, not almost.

Yes, it's always seemed to me that you're much safer with two wildly different colours than, say, a jacket and trousers that are almost but still perceptibly not quite the same. One contrasts, the other risks looking ill-matched.

 

[reetpleat]

Also, there are many differtent shades and textures. One brown might work and aonther might not. Tan, blue grey etc. Also, a smooth shiny blue is not the same as a soft wooly blue.

I am not a fan of brown shoes with most grey, but a rich chocolate brown in suede is the classic beautiful combination with grey flannel. Works great.

Another point is that do we dress for ourselves or others or both. Of course, if you like it, great. But if everyone else hates the combination, would you still wear it? That is up to you. Ideally you love the way you look because you like it and you expect others to like it too.

Isn't a maybe more modern classic, the tan poplin slacks with the blue blazer? I never liked it much, seemed too preppy. But seems to look okay.

Also, I would say blue jeans go with anything. People don;'t judge them on color.