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[Rabbit]

Even though the Europeans used this stitching technique for a longer time, the basting stitches were VERY common on American made hats in the 30's. The reason that you do not see too many hats from that era with them is because they were never meant to be left in. The point of the basting stitch was for shipping hats and stacking them in retail stores. It keeps the ribbon from folding down and over. Most retailers and customers removed them. The hats that seem to still keep them in are the very well preserved hats that most likely weren't worn very much or not at all.

Makes perfect sense. Thanks, Josh.

 

[Joshbru3]

Makes perfect sense. Thanks, Josh.

No problem.

Here's a couple examples of American 1930's hats with the stitches still left in:


1930's Mallory with Basting stitches

1930's Pennys (LEE) Marathon with Basting stitches

 

[alanfgag]

Basting stitches in a Vanzina with elaborate bow.

 

[Paul Roerich]

Even though the Europeans used this stitching technique for a longer time, the basting stitches were VERY common on American made hats in the 30's. The reason that you do not see too many hats from that era with them is because they were never meant to be left in. The point of the basting stitch was for shipping hats and stacking them in retail stores. It keeps the ribbon from folding down and over. Most retailers and customers removed them. The hats that seem to still keep them in are the very well preserved hats that most likely weren't worn very much or not at all.

Fascinating! Thanks, Joshbru! It raises a question: why do so many vintage used European-made/European-market hats have their basting still intact, versus relatively few vintage used American-made/American-market hats? Did European hat wearers like to leave it intact?

 

[mikespens]

This basting stitch thing could be a separate thread. Here's a 60's Borso FU Lazzaro that has what appears to be a basting stitch behind the ribbon, it's always puzzled me:

 

[Landman]

Thanks for the info guys. Very interesting.

 

[Joshbru3]

Fascinating! Thanks, Joshbru! It raises a question: why do so many vintage used European-made/European-market hats have their basting still intact, versus relatively few vintage used American-made/American-market hats? Did European hat wearers like to leave it intact?

I don't really know if there's an answer for that one. I'm unsure if the Europeans just used basting stitches for longer and therefore there are more hats out there or if Europeans found a usefulness in keeping them in. I've never read anything that would supply info one way or the other. I do know that Europeans used different practices in hatting during different times in history than the Americans. Un-reeded sweatbands were very popular in the 1930's America and then by the early 40's they were not really being used anymore for the most part. In Europe, Borsalino used un-reeded sweatbands for years after the 1930's on many of their lightweight hats and seem to have a better track record for sweatbands actually staying in their hats verses the American companies.

 

[ukali1066]

New wool newsboy cap I got whilst visting Camden town in London, £20.....last one he had, a size down from my usual 58, but fits great nonetheless

 

[Doomstein]

Doom, that is awesome!!...:eusa_clap....Your right around the corner from me..howdy neighbor!!..

Thank you sir! Howdy howdy!

 

[Rabbit]

Foster Brothers The Zephyr Bowler UK lightweight unlined

A lightweight early English Bowler with moderately flexible construction. Straight block shape and surprisingly thin construction of the bound edge.
A wonderful hat and a perfect fit.Thank you so much, Steve!

 

[DJH]

The rusty spike has been getting a lot of good use of late.
I bet the top part is worn smooth and shiny

 

[Rabbit]

The rusty spike has been getting a lot of good use of late.
I bet the top part is worn smooth and shiny

They do seem to come in batches, don't they?
After a hiatus during the summer months I found eight irresistible hats in less than three weeks, and I'm beginning to get extremely picky. lol

 

[countryclubjoe]

Since I am still a study in progress in regard to these great fedora's here on FL, please lend some advice on the subject of UNLINED HATS.

Were the unlined hats actually LINED at one time? Or did the hats come straight from the maker UNLINED?
Were unlined hats less expensive then the silk/satin lined hats? I see some great unlined hats on the bay and etsy and I avoid purchasing them because of being unlined. Possibly due to my ignorance I am missing the boat on some great deals.

I also had an idea to purchase these unlined hats and simply lined them with some old silk tie material/ties that I no longer wear.

Trying to learn so thanks in advance for any reply's and opinions.
Best regards
CCJOE

 

[alanfgag]

Were the unlined hats actually LINED at one time? Or did the hats come straight from the maker UNLINED?

Yes and yes.

Some hats, including many lightweight designs, were sold unlined. And many liners were soiled by hair preparations and might have been removed at some point during the hat's life.

If you find an unlined hat with a tip sticker, label or imprint in the crown, it most likely was designed to be sold without a liner.

happy hunting!

 

[scooter]

While I am certainly no expert, I believe that most came lined, but certain hats, particularly light weight felts such a Nokabouts, Featherweights, Vagabonds, and others came unlined; the belief being that the lack of the liner kept the hats from retaining as much heat and kept the head cooler. Without question, some of the hats you see started out with liners and had them removed at some point, but while I suppose it diminishes the value in the eyes of some collectors to a degree, they are still superb hats and well worth purchasing.

 

[Rabbit]

Some liner-less hats were orginally unlined, some had the liner removed (due to heavy stains, for instance). More often than not, original unlined hats have a tip liner (tip sticker) or an imprint at the crown roof. Some have ventilation holes, too.
A liner-less hat without any logos and with an unpounced inside of the crown felt is usually (but not always) a hat that's missing the liner.

 

[Iyor]

Josh, that Mallory is a great looking hat!

I have a borsalino that I believe is from the 1960s that has basting stitches. I also have a G. Ponzoni with them.

No problem.

Here's a couple examples of American 1930's hats with the stitches still left in:


1930's Mallory with Basting stitches

 

[mayserwegener]

Some liner-less hats were orginally unlined, some had the liner removed (due to heavy stains, for instance). More often than not, original unlined hats have a tip liner (tip sticker) or an imprint at the crown roof. Some have ventilation holes, too.
A liner-less hat without any logos and with an unpounced inside of the crown felt is usually (but not always) a hat that's missing the liner.

Some Bowlers (Derby, Melone) had removable liners. Here is a very early 1900s JHS Melone with both a tip label and removable liner.

 

[mayserwegener]

I don't really know if there's an answer for that one. I'm unsure if the Europeans just used basting stitches for longer and therefore there are more hats out there or if Europeans found a usefulness in keeping them in. I've never read anything that would supply info one way or the other. I do know that Europeans used different practices in hatting during different times in history than the Americans. Un-reeded sweatbands were very popular in the 1930's America and then by the early 40's they were not really being used anymore for the most part. In Europe, Borsalino used un-reeded sweatbands for years after the 1930's on many of their lightweight hats and seem to have a better track record for sweatbands actually staying in their hats verses the American companies.

I was told by a German hatter friend that they should be removed. I guess some hat shops / customers just didn't remove them. Mayser still uses them today. Modern Mayser City Finale.

 

[mayserwegener]

Foster Brothers The Zephyr Bowler UK lightweight unlined

A lightweight early English Bowler with moderately flexible construction. Straight block shape and surprisingly thin construction of the bound edge.
A wonderful hat and a perfect fit.Thank you so much, Steve!

Nik, Good to see it arrived safely! That is a great wearing (very light weight plus comfortable sweat) Bowler. Super photos as usual!