Plaid/Tartan vest help.

[indycop]

I was in the mall shopping for a new computer Dell was by Jos. A banks. In the window front of Jos. I saw a black suit display with a red plaid/tartan vest. I looked on their website when I got home but there were none on there. Is this type of vest for only special occasions or any time you wear a suit? And any ideas where to find them?

 

[Baron Kurtz]

I'm thinking it'd be the kind of thing to liven up a dinner suit, but maybe not.

I'd go with the all-tartan suit, myself.

bk

 

[Dagwood]

...I looked on their website when I got home but there were none on there...

Here it was. Was on sale for $38.00 (originally $95.00). Sold out.

If you have your heart set on getting one, there is one for sale (but not on sale) at Orvis.

 

[Ryan]

Not a vest but still a Tartan kind of look is the Jos Bank Blackwatch Notch Collar Dinner Jacket. Best part it's on sale.

 

[indycop]

Here it was. Was on sale for $38.00 (originally $95.00). Sold out.

If you have your heart set on getting one, there is one for sale (but not on sale) at Orvis.

Thats it!!:eusa_doh: Sold out aaaarrrgggg!!!!! I will call the local stores Wed.

 

[Feraud]

Not a vest but still a Tartan kind of look is the Jos Bank Blackwatch Notch Collar Dinner Jacket. Best part it's on sale.

Slightly off topic but.. there is the J Press Blackwatch jacket. I found one new w/tags for 25 bucks.

Here is a RL tux jacket.

 

[indycop]

Very nice!! I have always loved the pattern on women but did not see much of it in men's apparel until coming to the lounge, now I'm wanting it.:eusa_doh: Is there any etiquette for this style or just wear it?
I also found a vest at www.scotyard.com

 

[Duck]

Jos. A. Banks

Their Black Watch Dinner jacket is on sale!!!! One sharp looking jacket
http://www.josbank.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Merchant_Id=1&Section_Id=16723&pcount=&Product_Id=424439

 

[indycop]

Their Black Watch Dinner jacket is on sale!!!! One sharp looking jacket
http://www.josbank.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Merchant_Id=1&Section_Id=16723&pcount=&Product_Id=424439

That is really nice!! I would probably take a long though, I think I will going by their store soon.

 

[Alan Eardley]

It helps if you have served in the Black Watch regiment. Particularly if you meet ex-members of the said regiment on a night out...
It should be noted that the old regimental motto was Nemo me impune lacessit (no man attacks me with impunity).

Alan

<Snip> Is there any etiquette for this style or just wear it?
<Snip>QUOTE]

 

[Graeme]

Their regimental motto is the same as my family motto and is also written around the egde of UK £1 coins.

Who were the black watch regiment then?

 

[Alan Eardley]

The Black Watch was one of the oldest Scottish regiments, having been formed in 1739. The regiment had over 160 battle honours and 14 VCs before it was reduced to Battalion strength and merged with other Highland regiments within the new Scottish Regiment in 2006.

Its members are often described as 'fiercely proud' of their heritage and can be sensitive about people wearing their colours. I would recommend 'The Black Watch - the Inside Story' by Jahn Parker as a background.

Alan

 

[Graeme]

Cool, nice to know.

Were they associated with the Stewarts by any chance?

 

[Alan Eardley]

No, the Royal Stewart tartan isn't assocated with a regiment. Do you mean were they Jacobites?

Both tartans are supposed to be 'in the public domain', but the Black Watch doesn't always see it like that. Technically, you should get the permission of the head of a Clan to wear a clan tartan. If you're in doubt wear a district tartan.

Alan

 

[Graeme]

No, i wonderd if the regiment has anything to do with the stewart clan, same motto.

 

[dhermann1]

Stewart, Stewart, Stewart

I get so tired of seeing only the Stewart tartan on garments made in America. There are a couple hundred wonderful tartan designs available, and almost all you ever see is Royal Stewart. If you like plaid, and who doesn't, a little research can turn up garments made in many other patterns. There are several websites, both American and Bristish/Scottish, that sell authentic tartan clothes. They can get expensive, but the quality is good, and it would be worth it to find another distinctive tartan. I give credit to L.L. Bean for selling shirts in a few other patterns than the standard ones.
BTW, from what I've read, the tradition of being territorial about clan tartans is something of a modern invention. Before the 1700's Scots supposedly felt no compunction about wearing the plaids of other clans. It was only with the "reinvention" of a lot of the tartans in the 19th century that families became possessive about them. So if you feel funny about wearing a tartan that you're not "entitled" to wear, I say go ahead. I think wearing Scottish plaids is a compliment to the Scots, regardless of the pattern. They're just SO COOL.

 

[Graeme]

Yep, agree with you there, royal stewart was done to death, especialy in the (mid?) 90's in england.

Im not so keen on tartan myself, just interested due to (scottish) family history.

 

[Alan Eardley]

Scotland underwent what amounted to a civil war in the 18th Century. Charles Edward Stewart (the putative Charles 111) instructed his Highland followers to wear Highland clan tartans in the lead up to Culloden, when his forces were mainly opposed by Lowland clans. The sectarian violence that resulted (and that still lingers) meant that indicating which clan you belonged to was sometimes more than a mere convenience. The wearing of a clan tartan was banned in the Act of Proscription of 1747. Tartans as we know them were, as you say, largely an invention of the Victorian romantic movement.

As I see it, wearing a tartan you're not entitled to is like wearing a decoration or qualification you're not entitled to. I see lots of people in flight jackets wearing pilots' wings they aren't qualified to wear. Likewise with regimental ties, even medals. If they're comfortable with that, that's OK, but many people won't do it.

Alan

 

[Alan Eardley]

Rather the opposite. The Black Watch was originally formed as an Independent Company of Foot (a sort of private military police force) to keep the lawless Highlanders in check. In 1715 the first Jacobite uprising led to the Independent Companies being disbanded by George I and the first Laws were passed forbidding Highlanders to carry arms.

General Wade (who was Irish and who must be one of the few people to have his name in another country's national anthem), Commander-in-Chief in Scotland in 1724 raised six Independent Companies of Highlanders from clans loyal to the government and they only were allowed to carry arms. There were three companies of Campbells, and one each of Grants, Munros and Frasers. This force became known as The Black Watch, possibly because of the dark, neutral tartan they wore, and the name stuck and became official. Before and after Culloden, these clans were the sworn enemy of the Stewarts and other Highland Clans (e.g. the MacDonalds).

<edit later> I neglected to point out that the Black Watch regiment was not in the line at Culloden.

I don't know why the motto is the same.

Alan

No, i wonderd if the regiment has anything to do with the stewart clan, same motto.

 

[Smithy]

As I see it, wearing a tartan you're not entitled to is like wearing a decoration or qualification you're not entitled to. I see lots of people in flight jackets wearing pilots' wings they aren't qualified to wear. Likewise with regimental ties, even medals. If they're comfortable with that, that's OK, but many people won't do it.

I agree entirely with you Alan. I wouldn't be comfortable wearing something which I haven't earnt or have no entitlement to do so. There's a similar thing happening back home where a lot of Maori are getting very annoyed with non-Maoris going off and getting traditional Maori tattoos (Te moko). It's even more confounding when it's someone who isn't even from NZ.

Speaking of tartans, I can wear the Gordon or Colquhoun, much prefer the Colquhoun tartan though.