Physiological problems of bomber crews in the eighth air force during wwii

[alsendk]

https://www.google.dk/url?sa=t&rct=...TCfKiAvBTATjmTw&bvm=bv.85464276,d.d2s&cad=rjt

This report gives a breathtaking view over the mechanical and psychological obstacles B17 crews were facing on their daily flights over Germany

 

[Smithy]

I've met quite a lot of ex-WWII aircrew Alan and most mentioned the pressure that they felt. Two openly told me they had "nervous breakdowns" when they came home at the end.

My Dad who was in the RNZAF and missed the war by a year flatted with a fellow who had been a Lanc pilot during the war and Dad told me he was seriously @#$%ed up by it. Told some harrowing stories of having to hose the remains of the rear gunner out of what was left of the rear turret. And all this when he was only 23. You see that sort of stuff and it cannot not affect you.

 

[alsendk]

You are so right. A good friend of mine, an officer, stationed 3 times in Kosovo, Afghanistan, and latest Iraq has come home now, with serious mental problems.

I remember veterans from the tv miniseries; Band of brothers, from the 101st Airborne Division.
60 years after the war - with tears in their eyes, talking about missing comrades...so long after...
War is a terrible thing

 

[Guttersnipe]

Extreme wear and tear on both men and machines wasn't just a problem experienced by strategic bomber units. Tasked with vital tactical bombing missions and close air support, the P-47 squadrons of the 9th Air Force often exceeded the requisite number of missions required to earn a rotation our of the front lines. Likewise, because of operational necessity, P-47 pilots routinely flew planes in combat that under other circumstances would have been sent to scrapyard (in a ground attack role, aircraft tend to get mauled by AA fire. A LOT). They also flew on engines in desperate need of complete rebuilds and while in a state of near exhaustion - especially when covering the counterattack during the Battle of the Bulge. Combine all these factors together and you have a recipe for accidents due to mechanical failure and human error.

 

[Stearmen]

A good friend of the family was an 8th Air force Bombardier. A very nice mild mannered man, but with a lot of problems, he drank and chain smoked to the extent of lighting his next cigarette with the last one. He died of mouth cancer, a terrible way to go! He also contemplated suicide on several occasions. Andy Rooney who flew with the 8th, thought they had it worse then the Infantry, which he spent time with on the front. With the 8th, they were on leave in London that night, then over Berlin the next day, and back to a nice meal at night with all the empty chairs. From top of the world in emotions to the bottom, then back up in 24 hours.

 

[the hairy bloke]

I've asked this before, sorry, but I never had any replies.

It must have been lousy for the Allied bomber crews, but they had the "comfort" if that is the right word (and it isn't) of knowing that what they were doing was, sort of revenge for what the Germans had done earlier.

But how did German bomber crew, who had bombed Britain feel when their cities got the same back again?

 

[1930artdeco]

Ok here is an answer and another question.

'Hairy' unfortunately, the winners write the history books and nobody has thought to ask the losers how they felt. But I assume that they did not feel the same physiological problems as the 8th due to the lower altitudes they flew at. As far as the pay back goes I am sure that they felt the same anger, and frustration anyone would.

My question, I just read the abstract and the author is contending that the B-17 in this case was not up to the task of protecting it screw from the affects of high high altitude flight. But, what about the pacific theater? The B-24 crews went through roughly the same things but magnified due to the smaller unit sizes and longer flights. And then there was the B-29 which could fly pressurized at altitude. Now I have not read the article yet but just asking.

Mike

 

[Edward]

You are so right. A good friend of mine, an officer, stationed 3 times in Kosovo, Afghanistan, and latest Iraq has come home now, with serious mental problems.

I remember veterans from the tv miniseries; Band of brothers, from the 101st Airborne Division.
60 years after the war - with tear in their eyes, talking about missing comrades...so long after...
War is a terrible thing

It's a dirty business, and it destroys many more lives than simply those killed in combat or bombing raids. I've mentioned several times before here my primary school headmaster, an RAF bomber navigator, who had a terrible war. He got into education after the war to put something back and to hlep assuage the guilt he felt, both at the time and ongoing, for every time he pulled the bomb door lever, knowing children in particular were going to die as a result. He certainly had no time for his superiors, they who branded him "LMF" for turning his crew back halfway one night when they were sent out with a defective plane that only had the engine on one side working. Same folks - when he did what he felt to be his duty and risked his life to escape from a pow camp - treated him worse than his German captors, claiming he might be a spy. He didn't talk about it much, but he certainly never supported or had anything to do with Remembrance Sunday because of it all. And he was pretty lucky, really, compared to what some of them saw. Friend of mine had a relative that was one of the first allied troops into Belsen... Bound to screw a man up. I'm sure it aged them all physically as much as it scarred them mentally.

 

[pawineguy]

I finally this year got around to reading the two books following All Quiet on the Western Front, The Road Back and Three Comrades. When I read The Road Back, I kept thinking that it could have been written in the US in the 1970s about Vietnam Veterans. While AQOTWF is considered the classic (and rightly so), I was even more moved by the following two books, and found the story of the re-integration of veterans back into society to be as on-point today as it was in the inter-war period when they were written. The toll that war takes on those who have to fight them is universal and probably as old as war itself.

 

[Smithy]

Actually back in Oz last year I went out with a mate you'd just got back from his fourth tour in Afghanistan and TBH although it was great to see him he was a bit out of control. One minute he'd be quiet as a mouse, the next he was frantic. It was another mate's birthday so it turned into a bit of a pub crawl round St Kilda in Melbourne and by the end of it I spent half the night trying to either stop him getting into scraps and fights and cheering him up.

I didn't think much about it at the time as he was always a little on the wild side but looking back on it, it was probably him reacclimatising to life away from a war zone. He saw some scary sh!t as well. He's in good form now though which is great.

 

[Treetopflyer]

Bottom line, war is not pretty.

 

[Smithy]

Bottom line, war is not pretty.

Never a truer word spoken Treetopflyer and probably a sentiment that supremely paraphrases this thread.

 

[Stearmen]

https://www.google.dk/url?sa=t&rct=...TCfKiAvBTATjmTw&bvm=bv.85464276,d.d2s&cad=rjt

This report gives a breathtaking view over the mechanical and psychological obstacles B17 crews were facing on their daily flights over Germany

I misread your original post! I did not read the entire paper. I know a lot of men died from lack of oxygen. Damage to the lines, frozen sweat, spittle, and vomit, could kill, coming on slowly, until it's to late. Also, no part of the airplane could be touched with out gloves, many gunners lost fingers to frost byte. The B-24 crews in the Pacific flew mainly at a much lower altitude. B-29 crews faced severe fatigue, due to the very long flights. There were several flights where one of the crew members would wake up, only to find the entire crew fast asleep! Later, the crews were given amphetamine to stay awake for the flight back. Then they would give crews some kind of downer, after the flight, so they could sleep.

 

[gman41]

TheBritish pretty much knew that nighttime bombing was not working so there was no real alternative to daylight with the inherent risks. In 42 and 43 the infantry was the place to be. In 44 the air was ours and everyone envied the fly boys. The maxing part is that they got up and back in these crates the next day after the horrors of the one before.

 

[Foxer55]

There is a B-17 book I read several years ago, can't remember the name, but it was a historical report on bomber crews and experiences. In one case, a doctor or someone who had been to the 8th AF was complaining about men in steel tubes at below freezing temperatures at 30,000 feet trying to fire on incoming aircraft that were shooting at them. There was apparently a case where one gunner went berserk and was shooting at other bombers in formation.

There was another B-17 book reporting a crewman in the nose of a B-17, nav/gunner/bombadier, who was in the nose at one moment over Germany and the next minute was in free air all by himself at 30,000 feet - an apparent flak hit in the weapons bay disintegrated the airplane and he luckily survived the experience.

 

[Smithy]

TheBritish pretty much knew that nighttime bombing was not working.

Sorry but that's absolute nonsense. The RAF night bombing was an integral part of the success of the bombing campaign over the Third Reich. Operation Chastise alone for example was responsible for putting back the German war effort by several months.

 

[Foxer55]

Of course, we have to ask why some others emerged from the war as resolute? What about Paul Tibbets who dropped the atomic bomb? Robert L. Scott, Jr., author of "God Is My Copilot?"

What about, most of all, guys like Henry E. Erwin who was nearly burned to a crisp in a B-29? Read his story if you're not familiar with it, I have nothing but pure admiration for a guy like this. He returned and led a productive life. His story is well known in the annals of military aviation and there was a movie made of his experience, its chilling:

http://www.homeofheroes.com/wings/erwin.html

"Then, in the midst of the billowing smoke, an apparition began to arise. Unable to see after catching the full force of the white phosphorus in the face, Red Erwin found the burning canister by touch. Burning at thousands of degrees Fahrenheit, it was not hard to locate. Clutching the white hot canister to his body and holding it in place with his arm, Red Erwin struggled to ignore the pain and crawl towards the cockpit. His entire upper body was aflame, his hair completely burned away, his clothing vaporized and his face burned beyond recognition. For the crew it was no ray of hope...no man could endure the trek required to eject the lethal canister from the only available opening, a cockpit window. Added to that, the path was blocked by the navigator's table. "

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzx8BkSwwWk

 

[Monsoon]

" Added to that, the path was blocked by the navigator's table. "

And he put the flare under his arm, unlatched the table, and then continued to the pilots window.

Yeah, being on fire must have slowed him down, but I think what really slowed him down were his gigantic testicles.

I've seen flares fail to eject from the flare bucket and burn in place outside of my jump window. I was told that there's no risk of them burning them all or burning thru the bucket and into the aircraft, but it didn't stop me from kicking the side of the aircraft trying to knock it out.

 

[Monsoon]

A good book to check out is "Masters of the Air" about the 8th AF. I think this is the book that Hanks/Spielberg are basing their AAF miniseries on (at least one of the books).

 

[GJ nord]

A more rounded look at Allied (not just the USAAF) aircrews and their experiences is a book called 'Courage and Air Warfare' by Mark K Wells, with chapters covering 'the nature of air combat during the combined bomber offensive' 'combat stress, emotional breakdown and their treatment in the allied airforces' (the RAF treated combat fatigue cases appallingly) 'attitudes and morale in the eighth air force' aircrew morale in Bomber command' 'moral fibre and the american experience' 'bomber command and lack of moral fibre'.

An interesting read.

PER ARDUA AD ASTRA!