Phoenix Hat Company

[deadlyhandsome]

I sent Rick a HUGE Walden a while back for some restoration and modifications. Rick has had a crazy busy year, but still manages to make time to work on hats when he can. He recently sent me an email telling me that the hat is nearing completion! We knew that the sweatband would have to be replaced, but unbeknownst to me he went above and beyond to recreate the markings:

It’s the perfectionist streak in artists that give us exceptional products. Thank you, Rick!

 

[Woodtroll]

That's impressive (but with Rick, not surprising). I think we share the trait that we will spend more on tools to do a specialty job than it would cost to have someone else just do it. But now we have the tools and ability to do it ourselves the next time for "free". I don't know if you call that self-sufficiency, dedication, orneriness, or what, but my wife is not so sure at times that it's an admirable trait ("When are you ever going to use that again?") But at least she's appreciative when I'm able to pull off an oddball repair on something in the house or on one of her sewing/crafting "toys" that would otherwise require a replacement purchase.

Nice job, Rick!

 

[T Jones]

Rick is definitely an artist!

 

[belfastboy]

Rick is definitely an artist!

I think it goes beyond that as he is the very rare breed; combining artistry with craftmanship and mad skills

 

[steur]

I sent Rick a HUGE Walden a while back for some restoration and modifications. Rick has had a crazy busy year, but still manages to make time to work on hats when he can. He recently sent me an email telling me that the hat is nearing completion! We knew that the sweatband would have to be replaced, but unbeknownst to me he went above and beyond to recreate the markings:

View attachment 291404 View attachment 291405

It’s the perfectionist streak in artists that give us exceptional products. Thank you, Rick!

Beautiful work by Rick. This and the work Optimo did on Max @drmaxtejeda MacLachlan does bring up a point about copyright issues though. I'm all for restoring hats to as close to original state as possible, but my hatter pointed out that both name and logos even of brand names no longer in existence likely belong to someone. They certainly do for companies like Borsalino or Stetson. Borsalino doesn't offer replacement sweatbands and Stetson probably doesn't either, certainly not for hats like "no. 1 quality" hats, but they still could assert their rights and give hatters that offer services like this a hard time. Wether right or wrong, not a position you would want to be in as a hatter.
The legal small print may vary on this country to country, but what do you think? Loving restoration or copyright infringement or both?

 

[drmaxtejeda]

Beautiful work by Rick. This and the work Optimo did on Max @drmaxtejeda MacLachlan does bring up a point about copyright issues though. I'm all for restoring hats to as close to original state as possible, but my hatter pointed out that both name and logos even of brand names no longer in existence likely belong to someone. They certainly do for companies like Borsalino or Stetson. Borsalino doesn't offer replacement sweatbands and Stetson probably doesn't either, certainly not for hats like "no. 1 quality" hats, but they still could assert their rights and give hatters that offer services like this a hard time. Wether right or wrong, not a position you would want to be in as a hatter.
The legal small print may vary on this country to country, but what do you think? Loving restoration or copyright infringement or both?

That is one of the reasons I asked Graham to print "restored by Graham Thompson" on the sweatband, and the MacLachlan logo is not an exact copy.

 

[steur]

That is one of the reasons I asked Graham to print "restored by Graham Thompson" on the sweatband, and the MacLachlan logo is not an exact copy.

It's what my hatter does as well, but she was still apprehensive about my idea of stamping a Borsalino logo on the sweatband of Borsalino hats. There's not much to fear I suppose since these restored hats are for our own enjoyment, but it could be different if advertised by a hatter. I did order a foil stamp die nonetheless.

 

[drmaxtejeda]

It's what my hatter does as well, but she was still apprehensive about my idea of stamping a Borsalino logo on the sweatband of Borsalino hats. There's not much to fear I suppose since these restored hats are for our own enjoyment, but it could be different if advertised by a hatter. I did order a foil stamp die nonetheless.

If I were sued by MacLachlan I would frame the suit and hang it on my office wall

 

[steur]

If I were sued by MacLachlan I would frame the suit and hang it on my office wall

They should in stead make you their official curator!

 

[belfastboy]

Beautiful work by Rick. This and the work Optimo did on Max @drmaxtejeda MacLachlan does bring up a point about copyright issues though. I'm all for restoring hats to as close to original state as possible, but my hatter pointed out that both name and logos even of brand names no longer in existence likely belong to someone. They certainly do for companies like Borsalino or Stetson. Borsalino doesn't offer replacement sweatbands and Stetson probably doesn't either, certainly not for hats like "no. 1 quality" hats, but they still could assert their rights and give hatters that offer services like this a hard time. Wether right or wrong, not a position you would want to be in as a hatter.
The legal small print may vary on this country to country, but what do you think? Loving restoration or copyright infringement or both?

I am of the position is that it is much easier to offer apologies than ask permission. Or my more snarky response to them......"So sue me!"

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Beautiful work by Rick. This and the work Optimo did on Max @drmaxtejeda MacLachlan does bring up a point about copyright issues though. I'm all for restoring hats to as close to original state as possible, but my hatter pointed out that both name and logos even of brand names no longer in existence likely belong to someone. They certainly do for companies like Borsalino or Stetson. Borsalino doesn't offer replacement sweatbands and Stetson probably doesn't either, certainly not for hats like "no. 1 quality" hats, but they still could assert their rights and give hatters that offer services like this a hard time. Wether right or wrong, not a position you would want to be in as a hatter.
The legal small print may vary on this country to country, but what do you think? Loving restoration or copyright infringement or both?

I’m not sure how this works. If I’m restoring a classic 1930s Chevrolet and I have a replacement grill (modern manufacture) that has the name “Chevrolet” on it along with the Chevrolet emblem I don’t think this causes an issue. I could well be wrong, but restoration work often does this without issue. I can see issues claiming “all original” or similar, but I think restoration work is safe.

 

[steur]

I’m not sure how this works. If I’m restoring a classic 1930s Chevrolet and I have a replacement grill (modern manufacture) that has the name “Chevrolet” on it along with the Chevrolet emblem I don’t think this causes an issue. I could well be wrong, but restoration work often does this without issue. I can see issues claiming “all original” or similar, but I think restoration work is safe.

I was thinking the same, but the issue might be with licensing. That grill might be offered by a third party manufacturer that is actually licensed to do so. But what if you're not licensed? My thinking was that can only be a legal problem if there's an injured party, in this case a company that loses revenue not selling a part itself or from licensing fees not received. Someone holding the rights to a brand name can argue that quite easily I would guess. On the scale we're talking here it's all academic for sure, but when would Hatco (for Stetson) or Borsalino take notice?

 

[jlee562]

Hmm, well, Fender guitars, for example, licenses out their headstock shapes to a company called Warmoth. They are in turn able to offer the trademark shapes and use Fender trademarks in advertising (e.g. "Replacement Telecaster neck"), but they cannot offer logo decals or replicate any Fender branding. Granted, the market for counterfeit guitars is much more significant than the hat restoration market.

I'm certainly no expert in IP law (or law of any sort), but I would imagine it not to be an issue for one-offs.

 

[humanshoes]

I suppose it would be an issue if I were using the Walden logo on my own hats and misrepresenting and selling them as an original Walden product, but a restoration is a far cry from that. If whoever owns the Walden brand name really wants to pay a couple of lawyers to come after me with an infringement suit for putting a Walden logo in a Walden hat, with full disclosure that the logo stamp and sweatband are not original then let 'em have at it. All they'll have to do is make a strong case for intentional infringement that includes "merchandising use" and be prepared to prove that I meant to profit from their trademark or copyright. Even if they were so inclined to squander their legal resources it would almost certainly be a fools errand to do so in my case.
To quote the bard himself, "He who steals my purse steals trash".

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I suppose it would be an issue if I were using the Walden logo on my own hats and misrepresenting and selling them as an original Walden product, but a restoration is a far cry from that. If whoever owns the Walden brand name really wants to pay a couple of lawyers to come after me with an infringement suit for putting a Walden logo in a Walden hat, with full disclosure that the logo stamp and sweatband are not original then let 'em have at it. All they'll have to do is make a strong case for intentional infringement that includes "merchandising use" and be prepared to prove that I meant to profit from their trademark or copyright. Even if they were so inclined to squander their legal resources it would almost certainly be a fools errand to do so in my case.
To quote the bard himself, "He who steals my purse steals trash".

I’ll pay your legal fees.

Truly, I was blown away at your efforts with this hat! Thanks again, my friend.

 

[humanshoes]

I’ll pay your legal fees.

Truly, I was blown away at your efforts with this hat! Thanks again, my friend.

Hah! I doubt there'll be legal fees to worry about my friend, but I appreciate the offer.
You know, the hats I've made for you have most often allowed me to improve and expand my skill set and, for that, I'm the one who should be thanking you.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

My Walden returned home after a visit with Rick. It was sized up from a 7 3/8 to a 7 3/4. The liner no longer fit, so Rick made a new liner and used to original tip in the new one: a wonderful surprise. Rick also recreated the markings on the sweatband and the entire hat shows that same attention to detail. The ribbon and brim original; albeit, the ribbon came off and was modified to fit the larger diameter before going back on.

Six inch open crown and 4 5/8 inch bound brim.

The plan was for it to get a big brim curl; however, the felt is so soft that it won’t hold the curl. I don’t see that as a drawback as there is no shortage of felt that is half fur and half shellac! The crown wouldn’t seem out of place on a fine vintage fedora it’s that thin and malleable. I’m still working on the shape, but it’s already a prized hat. Rick outdoes himself with every new project!

I’m sure I could pass this hat off as an original! Everything about it is superb. Thank you, Rick!

 

[Tukwila]

My Walden returned home after a visit with Rick. It was sized up from a 7 3/8 to a 7 3/4. The liner no longer fit, so Rick made a new liner and used to original tip in the new one: a wonderful surprise. Rick also recreated the markings on the sweatband and the entire hat shows that same attention to detail. The ribbon and brim original; albeit, the ribbon came off and was modified to fit the larger diameter before going back on.

Six inch open crown and 4 5/8 inch bound brim.

The plan was for it to get a big brim curl; however, the felt is so soft that it won’t hold the curl. I don’t see that as a drawback as there is no shortage of felt that is half fur and half shellac! The crown wouldn’t seem out of place on a fine vintage fedora it’s that thin and malleable. I’m still working on the shape, but it’s already a prized hat. Rick outdoes himself with every new project!

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I'm sure I could pass this hat off as an original! Everything about it is superb. Thank you, Rick!

That's really extraordinary, Brent. I'm impressed!

 

[steur]

My Walden returned home after a visit with Rick. It was sized up from a 7 3/8 to a 7 3/4. The liner no longer fit, so Rick made a new liner and used to original tip in the new one: a wonderful surprise. Rick also recreated the markings on the sweatband and the entire hat shows that same attention to detail. The ribbon and brim original; albeit, the ribbon came off and was modified to fit the larger diameter before going back on.

Six inch open crown and 4 5/8 inch bound brim.

The plan was for it to get a big brim curl; however, the felt is so soft that it won’t hold the curl. I don’t see that as a drawback as there is no shortage of felt that is half fur and half shellac! The crown wouldn’t seem out of place on a fine vintage fedora it’s that thin and malleable. I’m still working on the shape, but it’s already a prized hat. Rick outdoes himself with every new project!

View attachment 304172 View attachment 304173 View attachment 304174 View attachment 304175 View attachment 304176 View attachment 304177
I’m sure I could pass this hat off as an original! Everything about it is superb. Thank you, Rick!

Superb job! Wonderful restoration.

 

[Rmccamey]

An excellent recovery! Great looking hat.

My Walden returned home after a visit with Rick. It was sized up from a 7 3/8 to a 7 3/4. The liner no longer fit, so Rick made a new liner and used to original tip in the new one: a wonderful surprise. Rick also recreated the markings on the sweatband and the entire hat shows that same attention to detail. The ribbon and brim original; albeit, the ribbon came off and was modified to fit the larger diameter before going back on.

Six inch open crown and 4 5/8 inch bound brim.

The plan was for it to get a big brim curl; however, the felt is so soft that it won’t hold the curl. I don’t see that as a drawback as there is no shortage of felt that is half fur and half shellac! The crown wouldn’t seem out of place on a fine vintage fedora it’s that thin and malleable. I’m still working on the shape, but it’s already a prized hat. Rick outdoes himself with every new project!

View attachment 304172 View attachment 304173 View attachment 304174 View attachment 304175 View attachment 304176 View attachment 304177
I’m sure I could pass this hat off as an original! Everything about it is superb. Thank you, Rick!