Panama Hat Thread

[DJH]

The Panama threads are the Ice Hockey of the Lounge.
Wouldn't be the same without a good fight every now and again

 

[Aureliano]

No vitriol, Art. Many times I have praised PBs hats but what angers me about him and I think it's fair for new loungers to know, is his inconsistency in quality control. Nothing personal. I think he's a cool guy who means well, who is doing commendable work with the weavers. But I also think he's sloppy when it comes to checking the hats before sending them. I hope this answers your angry concern, Art. I don't speak without a basis. His cases of poor quality and him having to replace hats are well documented here, as are the cases of his great hats.
As for Worth and Worth, Orlando the owner is an acquaintance of mine, just as you are. And just as I suggest your name when it comes to good quality, affordable felt hats, I mention his. Whether Orlando gets his straw from the same people as PB, I don't know. You, PB, W&W and Graham can have all the market you want, just check your stuff before mailing to people who are keeping you working with their business. Nothing personal, pure and simple ethics. I feel that you're not only judging me, but your judging me unfairly.

 

[Art Fawcett]

Ale, in re reading your words you & I come away with different takes. You say you've seen cases where Robert has had to replace or trade hats so you see inconsistency on his part. Why, they NEVER should have been sent, right? In your eyes he needs to be perfect or nearly so.

What I see is a guy trying very hard to do whatever it takes to please a client by trading or even refunding money to the unsatisfied ones. At no point have I ever seen Robert NOT live up to his commitment as a Vendor and know him to be an honorable man that is often overwhelmed . I see nobody as perfect and as such what makes the difference is in how problems are handled after the mistake is made. I see him as trying to solve every problem, every time.

I asked if it is personal Aureliano because I know that you have never done business with him, never spent a dime with him, yet feel obligated to criticize him for transactions with others. Really , what skin do you have in this game?

 

[monbla256]

Ale, in re reading your words you & I come away with different takes. You say you've seen cases where Robert has had to replace or trade hats so you see inconsistency on his part. Why, they NEVER should have been sent, right? In your eyes he needs to be perfect or nearly so.

What I see is a guy trying very hard to do whatever it takes to please a client by trading or even refunding money to the unsatisfied ones. At no point have I ever seen Robert NOT live up to his commitment as a Vendor and know him to be an honorable man that is often overwhelmed . I see nobody as perfect and as such what makes the difference is in how problems are handled after the mistake is made. I see him as trying to solve every problem, every time.

I asked if it is personal Aureliano because I know that you have never done business with him, never spent a dime with him, yet feel obligated to criticize him for transactions with others. Really , what skin do you have in this game?

EXCELLENT points Art!!! Well said !

 

[Aureliano]

Art,

I've never said that PB doesn't live up to what he offers. I've said that he is sloppy when it comes to quality control. I'm absolutely certain that he has done everything he can to replace defective hats, or refund unhappy customers. I have no doubt about that. My point, on past heated posts with him, is that it'd be so much easier for him if he stopped and examined the hat before shipping it, that way he could avoid having to refund or exchange mediocre hats for better ones that he certainly has. "I sent it because I didn't think it was that bad" is an unacceptable business practice for me. Hats like that should never be sent, you're right. Unless, of course, you tell your custumer: "I'm sending you a hat that's not too bad, just a little bit"
You are right, I have never done business with him. My part in this game, as you put it, is the same as any other lounger plays in here: we're a community of hat wearers and we share experiences and knowledge. I have never said to anyone here "do not buy from Robert Webber" All I have said is, if you decide to go with him, be very specific of what you want. I give myself the option of being wrong here, but honestly Art, I don't see any vitriol in saying that. I guess you have as much skin as I or any other lounger around here.

 

[Rabbit]

May I chime in with a little stochastics?

A very small percentage of the transactions of any vendor will be rejected by the customer, for whatever reason.
Now then, PB probably sells more hats per month than the others, the higher-priced ones (plain price strategy). Especially the entry price range, I assume. For the sake of the argument, let's assume that all the sellers have the same rejection rates.
PB would inevitably have more rejections in absolute numbers, wouldn't he?
Furthermore, those rejections are simply more likely to come to the attention of others as compared to the countless transactions that went fine; that's a common bias (nothing wrong with that).

Well, there are a couple of assumptions on my part in here, but maybe I'm not too far off.

 

[Art Fawcett]

Art, All I have said is, if you decide to go with him, be very specific of what you want. I give myself the option of being wrong here, but honestly Art, I don't see any vitriol in saying that. I guess you have as much skin as I or any other lounger around here.

My apologies Sir, you are right, I don't see vitriol now that I re it again. I DO see you being specific but please see my point. I've seen you make similar posts involving PB and much like with my wife I have the capacity to "turn her off" when the same words are repeated and I just don't want to hear any more. Robert is a good man doing good work that clearly doesn't meet your expectations and that's OK. I happen to know Robert personally and can judge for myself as to his character and biz practices but newcomers to this Lounge don't have that luxury and might not have more facts than just your posts. Your "warning" can be seen as a real negative and that's what frightens me. That's the kind of thing that just might put him out of business over time if not counteracted with those that are happy with him. Jeopardizing his business for these kinds of reasons just doesn't seem fair to me.
OK, I will repeat your words and add a few more.

Be very specific with Robert as to your specifications when ordering however, know that if there is miscommunication that he will always do his best to remedy the situation.

Is this a fair compromise?

Belly up to the bar Ale, I'm pouring Crown

 

[monbla256]

Art,

I've never said that PB doesn't live up to what he offers. I've said that he is sloppy when it comes to quality control. I'm absolutely certain that he has done everything he can to replace defective hats, or refund unhappy customers. I have no doubt about that. My point, on past heated posts with him, is that it'd be so much easier for him if he stopped and examined the hat before shipping it, that way he could avoid having to refund or exchange mediocre hats for better ones that he certainly has. "I sent it because I didn't think it was that bad" is an unacceptable business practice for me. Hats like that should never be sent, you're right. Unless, of course, you tell your custumer: "I'm sending you a hat that's not too bad, just a little bit"
You are right, I have never done business with him. My part in this game, as you put it, is the same as any other lounger plays in here: we're a community of hat wearers and we share experiences and knowledge. I have never said to anyone here "do not buy from Robert Webber" All I have said is, if you decide to go with him, be very specific of what you want. I give myself the option of being wrong here, but honestly Art, I don't see any vitriol in saying that. I guess you have as much skin as I or any other lounger around here.

Interesting how when ever PB is now mentioned here, you jump in with your "concern". As William wrote in "Hamlet", act III, scene II, "... the lady doth protest too much methinks".

 

[Art Fawcett]

You are spot on Rabbit

 

[DJH]

Belly up to the bar Ale, I'm pouring Crown

I'm more of a Scotch man, but I'm up for a Crown with you guys!

 

[Aureliano]

Be very specific with Robert as to your specifications when ordering however, know that if there is miscommunication that he will always do his best to remedy the situation.

Is this a fair compromise? Belly up to the bar Ale, I'm pouring Crown

You're pouring but I'm buying! Let's head there and shake hands in agreement.

 

[Aureliano]

Interesting how when ever PB is now mentioned here, you jump in with your "concern". As William wrote in "Hamlet", act III, scene II, "... the lady doth protest too much methinks".

I jump with my concern because I disagree with some of his practices and as any other lounger feel I have the right to voice it. Same concern I have with you being simpleminded, to say it nicely.

 

[monbla256]

I jump with my concern because I disagree with some of his practices and as any other lounger feel I have the right to voice it. Same concern I have with you being simpleminded, to say it nicely.

Like minds think the same

 

[Aureliano]

Like minds think the same

Now that my heated, yet intelligent conversation with Art has ended with a satisfactory agreement, I'm going to head out of here leaving alone the only ignorant participant who instead, as Rabbit did for example, of contributing with a valid point to the argument, only added inconsequential, pick-a-fight, elementary school-like words.

 

[monbla256]

Now that my heated, yet intelligent conversation with Art has ended with a satisfactory agreement, I'm going to head out of here leaving alone the only ignorant participant who instead, as Rabbit did for example, of contributing with a valid point to the argument, only added inconsequential, pick-a-fight, elementary school-like words.

In reply to your egoistic palaver I will just say as is said down here in the South, " If you can't say anything nice about someone, then don't say anything at all " . 'nuff said

 

[Art Fawcett]

Step right up folks!!

Here, in the red corner , ready to begin this 37 round bout, is our very own Southern Spirit , big rig drivin, straight shootin, tobacco chewin tough guy known in these here parts as MONBLA256, known to never give an inch!!!

AND
In the Blue corner is the Latin Stallion, heavy drinkin, heavy hittin, never say die, take no prisoners AURELIANO!!!!!

OK Gentlemen, shake hands, fight fair, no low blows, no ear biting, no cursing below your breath now, back to your corners & get ready for the bell!!!


( I need a drink)

 

[monbla256]

Step right up folks!!

Here, in the red corner , ready to begin this 37 round bout, is our very own Southern Spirit , big rig drivin, straight shootin, tobacco chewin tough guy known in these here parts as MONBLA256, known to never give an inch!!!

AND
In the Blue corner is the Latin Stallion, heavy drinkin, heavy hittin, never say die, take no prisoners AURELIANO!!!!!

OK Gentlemen, shake hands, fight fair, no low blows, no ear biting, no cursing below your breath now, back to your corners & get ready for the bell!!!


( I need a drink)

Have one for me Art BTW, I'm a yellow dog Texas Democrat so I need to be in the BLUE corner

 

[job]

Could I have a toquilla straw body blocked to a 1930s tall straight look. I would hope in the process that I would lose a little brim. They are usually around 2 3/4 to 3" I would be happy with 2 1/2 brim.

 

[Giftmacher]

Is there any chance to repair this at home? Those broken straws are probably due to that piece of polythene inside. Is this a usual way how are panamas made these days? Price was about $75

 

[barrowjh]

Several transactions with PB, and all were better than satisfactory; I am well pleased. Aureliano states that he has done no business with PB, and then spreads warnings as if speaking from the credibility of past direct experience. Most of us here that have direct experience with PB are reasonably well pleased with the products, service, and price. PB has a great reputation here, so I'm not sure he really needs any endorsement from me, but here it is anyway - several transactions with PB in the past, some ongoing in the present, and will likely do more business with him in the future.