Want to buy or sell something? Check the classifieds
  • The Fedora Lounge is supported in part by commission earning affiliate links sitewide. Please support us by using them. You may learn more here.

Palm Beach Neckties

herringbonekid

I'll Lock Up
Messages
6,016
Location
East Sussex, England
il_fullxfull325622939_zps52c665ba.jpg


il_fullxfull325623409_zpsa83a5fc7.jpg


L1040708.jpg


L1040709.jpg
 

LuckyKat

Practically Family
Messages
555
Location
Southern Calif
I've long been a collector of Palm Beach ties and have seen many of labels...I tend to collect the pre-54 labels (no (R)) because of width & design, but I've also heard that Goodall-Sanford sold out in 1948 & then it became the Palm Beach Company. If thats true, then the ties that are marked "Goodall-Sanford" were only made from late '43 to 48, but I have no evidence to back that up.
I have well over 100 PB ties to back me up, plus about 12-15 NOS PB ties...I will get some pictures when I have a chance, but I was considering selling a handful of them because there are many that I have never worn because I just have so many ties in general. I only have 2 sets that are the same patterns, otherwise there are so many designs of PB ties, it blows my mind! Why isnt there more suits available in crazy colors like the ties? (I have 3 "colored" PB suits that aren't just plain white, & yet they advertised so many other options...where are they!?!)
I've seen early 30s PB ties, but nothing from the 20s...I have a late teens/early 20s PB suit with a white on white label that I had never seen before...apparently I dont have the label, but here's the suit:
IMG_9682.jpg

The other thing that is rarely seen is the black label (I've never seen it on a tie, only a jacket)...& I find that they didnt use the black label past '43, although it could exist.
Here's a small guide from Spencer of Vintage Haberdashers...very general but a good idea lf labels:
palmbeach.jpg


The other thing, with tags is that orange is the most common, supported by the green or blue for the store, patent, or "by Beau Brummell", but yet below on Feraud's example of his cream tie with red, blue & gold stripes the word "Palm Beach" is in green...I've never seen that or heard of them doing that...I'd be very interested in owning that if you wanted to trade or sell it.
 

Dinerman

Super Moderator
Bartender
Messages
10,562
Location
Bozeman, MT
Here's a small guide from Spencer of Vintage Haberdashers...very general but a good idea lf labels

If you haven't already, please take a look at this thread I put together:
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showthread.php?71744-The-Fedora-Lounge-Guide-to-Palm-Beach-Cloth, which gives a much, much more comprehensive look at Palm Beach cloth than the little one I did on my blog. Ties marked Goodall-Sanford were produced up until the demise of that company c.1955. That post discusses the evolution of the company, its sales, name changes, and the changes in the composition of the fabric more in depth than this one.

As Beau Brummell had the exclusive contract to produce Palm Beach neckties, and used entirely different labels than what was being put in the suits, the labels in that guide aren't very applicable to the neckties. For the label chronology on the ties, see post 10.
 
Last edited:

dhermann1

I'll Lock Up
Messages
9,154
Location
Da Bronx, NY, USA
Here are my three:










Looks like the first two are from the 1944 to 1950 period. The last one is obviously later, and not necessarily from actual Palm Beach cloth. I can't really tell, myself. But it has a smoother feel. The top two are 47 " long, the last one is 50 " long.

The red and yellow one has already gotten lots of compliments. :)
 

herringbonekid

I'll Lock Up
Messages
6,016
Location
East Sussex, England
some beauties on this thread, some look a bit 'washed out' is that the photo flash, have they faded or are they often pastel shades?

of the three i posted; the blue-red-pale yellow one is very vibrant. the other two i checked underneath in the folded construction and there's no evidence of sun fade, so they've either faded evenly from several washes, or were made in those slightly muted hues... i suspect a bit of both.

(edit: DH's first tie above is also a 'muted hue' example).
 
Last edited:

Dinerman

Super Moderator
Bartender
Messages
10,562
Location
Bozeman, MT
That's interesting. The company reformulated their suiting Palm Beach cloth in '41. That's from 44 or newer, but still has the "original recipe".

I know Goodall (Sanford) mills made their tie material to different specs than their suiting, in different widths, different patterns/colors, an different compositions than the fabric they used in their suits. Palm Beach Cloth was not a singular material. It changed over time, for different applications, and even for different sales markets. Cool to see it illustrated that clearly.
 

herringbonekid

I'll Lock Up
Messages
6,016
Location
East Sussex, England
these are from the 'loose labels' bag:

palm_beach_labels_zps627e886d.jpeg


palm_beach_tag_zpsdb293837.jpeg



... unfortunately i can't remember which ties they were attached to !


"FROSTED WITH NYLON" !

yes, how can we make nylon sound cool ?
 
Last edited:

Dinerman

Super Moderator
Bartender
Messages
10,562
Location
Bozeman, MT
1940s composition: 53% mohair, 47% cotton

Early '50s composition, from your tag: 50% Rayon, 32% mohair, 13% cotton, 5% nylon.
I've seen another from that era marked 50% Rayon, 32% Mohair, 12% Cotton, 6% Nylon.

It looks like by the '50s "Wash and Wear" Palm Beach ties by Beau Brummel had been re-formulated again to be:
55% dacron polyester, 40% Rayon, and 5% Polyester. I'm seeing ads for those in the late 1950s. Oddly, the tags still say "woven only by Goodall Sanford", despite the name "Palm Beach" and the Goodall Sanford mills splitting ways around 1955. It was sort of a gradual split, '54-'56. In the early '50s, some of the fabric production had moved from Maine to Ohio. I wonder if that included the fabric used in their neckties?

By the '60s, Beau Brummell Palm Beach ties were 60% polyester, 40% rayon

Lots of changes in the fabric. Does anyone know of any other percentage variations?
 
Last edited:

herringbonekid

I'll Lock Up
Messages
6,016
Location
East Sussex, England
here's the interior of the above card tag when folded out.
really, the amount of info (and design charm) contained on a cardboard tag that measures 2.5" by 1.5" puts modern graphic designers to shame:

palm_beach_tag_02_zps8b16b9bb.jpeg



... AND you get a new tie if not satisfied !
 
Last edited:

LuckyKat

Practically Family
Messages
555
Location
Southern Calif
I retract my previous statement about 2-tone labels...I found a few in my collection...

On another note...I snapped pictures of my collection of PB ties (minus the handful of PB bow ties)

ry%3D400

ry%3D400

ry%3D400


My favorites:
ry%3D400


Matchy Matchy:
ry%3D400
 

Forum statistics

Threads
109,096
Messages
3,074,040
Members
54,091
Latest member
toptvsspala
Top