"Overdressed"

[Tiller]

My dear Pompidou.

Does this apply to people who overdress where the expectation is casual?

Ok when is casual dictated in the same way that formal is? What is the casual equivalent of a funeral?

What of the person (and I think the Fedora Lounge has more than one), who says, "I don't care what my company expects. I'm going to wear a suit in the work environment my employers have stated to be casual."

If your reading the same threads I am about that section, there isn't a company policy that states the one must wear casual clothing, but their is an open policy and certain people are choosing to wear suits, because it is what they want. For someone who get's on their soapbox when anyone dares try to claim that certain events should have a standard dress code, I'd figure that was right up your alley.

For the record if your company policy outright states that an employee has to wear say a uniform, I don't believe you have a right to wear a suit simply because it's your personal style choice, but then again I believe that individuals have certain standards to meet at times and the right to wear what you want whenever you want isn't an absolute.

Is formal wear the expectation for the grocery store?

Around here the rules state no shoes, no shirt, no service. Shouldn't you be outraged that nudist aren't being represented for their personal choice?

I think, any diatribe against casual wear at formal occasions would have to be equally matched by a diatribe against formal wear at casual occasions, or no diatribe should be had at all.

You must be joking. Are you suggesting that a man who shows up to a family picnic in say a cardigan sweatshirt over a tie and collared shirt, are showing the same disrespect as the same man showing up to his Grandfather's funeral wearing old sneakers, jeans, and a t-shirt? You don't see the difference between the idea that one is expected to dress in their best to honor the dead, and someone who chooses to wear a style that is considered more formal/"fancy" to a family gathering?

In a world where it is us defying social expectations, there's no place for holding the majority to any expectations.

Fine, if that is your absolute, let's take your thought process to an extreme. Should we look down at abolitionist who existed in 1789 even though they were at the time in the minority? If not why?

Follow up, more along the line of my post. If one is raised in a family where you are expected to wear a suit to a funeral if you are a man, and you choose to instead wear casual wear when your Grandfather dies, which majority are you fighting for? Your family and the one you are suppose to be honoring? Or are you standing up for the culture at a large in a great defense of the confomrity of the modern age? Are you therefor arguing that local custom (and even family traditions) should always be trumped by national fashion trends?

We tout the "right to dress however we want" every single day.

No, you do. I don't. I don't think you look good wearing a silk top hat with ripped jeans and a dirty shirt, I don't think it's a right to show up to a funeral wearing something that you would wear at the gym, and I don't think it's you have a right to walk around naked in the streets if you choose to.

If your asking if I think someone should be thrown in jail for wearing casual wear to a wedding, I'd obviously say no. I also don't see a suit as being to formal wear, and I know their are plenty of men who wear it as everyday wear, either because of their occupation or by choice. Luckily for them a suit is more versatile piece of clothing then jeans and a t-shirt.

Hopefully, the underdresser at funerals isn't making it a daily event. If so, s/he deserves our sympathy for enduring so many funerals, rather than our contempt for how s/he dresses to them.

I've been to five funerals so far this year, many of my elderly friends and family members have passed this year. Three of the funerals were relatives of mine. One was a great uncle, the second was an elderly cousin, and the other one was my Grandmother. Their are two cousins of mine who's "redneck pride" dictates that they shouldn't wear suits, or even a collared shirt because that is "selling out". Now they have upset the family, by not just showing up to just one funeral, but to every single one we have had wearing old jeans, sneakers, and a t-shirt (I'll give them credit for the fact that they took off their ball caps when they were in church). My Grandmother spoke to them about how they where being disrespectful to our family, and to the other mourners and they basically laughed at her. When she died not long afterwards, they added insult to injury by showing up in the same old get up.

Now these men aren't poor. Not only could they afford a suit, they could afford multiple suits, or tuxs, and could easily rent a suit/tux if inclined to, and they could easily afford to buy a pair of slacks and a collared shirt if they wanted to. My Grandmother never asked them to even wear a suit, she asked them to wear slacks and a collared shirt. They refused, and even showed up at her funeral wearing the very style of dress that had upset her to begin with. Sorry, but your line about their "rights" because they dress like the majority is pure grade A bunk. They had an expectation to fulfill, and failed considerably. So save me the redneck line of "they got the right", their are expectations in this world that over rides personal taste.

In the same line of thought with regards to sheeplady, if I was invited to a wedding and was asked outright to wear nothing more then a pair of jeans and a t-shirt, I would. Why? Because it would be what is expected of me.

Nudists are the underdressers, and they stick to places where it's okay, (hopefully). Pots and kettles.

If people have a right to dress as they please whenever they want, why are you so hateful towards those poor souls who choose to reject all conformity and walk around nude? Aren't their rights being violated when we expect them the put on a pair of pants, shoes, and a shirt just to shop in a grocery store? Why are you so arrogant to believe that you have a right to expect them to dress?

Yep. Just accepting reality. I dress nicely. I don't pretend to be the expectation everyone should be meeting. That's all. I fully support suit wearing. I fully condemn telling the world they're lesser somehow for not doing the same.

Then why do you expect nudist to dress? Why do you think that employers have a right to tell their employees how they are going to dress well on the clock? Why do you apply any standard when your entire being screams "freedom to dress as one pleases no matter the situation"? Or is it possible that you do have some standards, that their are situations in this world where even you expect people to follow an expectation, even when they don't want to?

 

[rue]

^ Yeah, what he said

 

[Pompidou]

It's a tough balance. I suppose it's easiest to say, my own philosophy is the "you should be able to wear anything" deal I stick to. Any deviance from that is actual legal/authority based. I think, "who am I to tell anyone how to dress? It's all arbitrary." If there's authority behind the rule, it's different. I mostly reject unenforceable society/majority based "rules". I like that the OP is wearing a suit because he feels like it. I like it when people do what they want, within very broad parameters.

The whole tangent on nudists weakened my last argument, in retrospect. I meant it to show them as the only real underdressers in today's customs - that if society determines social norms, our rules here no longer hold water. They get stuck in communes. I don't think the rules matter. I don't think they matter when we condemn underdressers. I don't think they matter when underdressers condemn us. At the very least, I'm fair about it. Everyone is free to wear anything, again, within very broad limits, maybe for safety or the like.

EDIT: Thinking a little more, this is usually the point in an argument where I get asked why I'm here. Happens a lot. So, in regards to this debate, I'm here because the people of the Fedora Lounge kind of fit in with my way of thinking. It's 2011, and here's a group of people who say, "It's 1945 to me, and I'm going to act like it no matter what everyone else thinks." That's a good thing. Me, I'm trying to add bits and pieces from whatever strikes me as "cool" from whatever era I happen upon. 20s sunglasses and a felt hat - you don't see those every day. The former were indeed inspired by TFL. The latter inspired my signing up, for what it's worth. Wear full fledged morning/evening dress to McDonalds. You'll have my applause.

Just make sure, whatever you decide to wear, you're wearing it because you want to. Looking great is, well, great. Don't lessen it by having the only reason you're bothering be because someone told you to. People here dress to the 9's because they want to. That's a lot more powerful a statement than the people who wore the exact same things decades ago, because they'd be stigmatized if they didn't. Sort of like any good behavior. If you only behave because of punishment, that's not half as good as behaving because it's right. There's a lot of good here, in my opinion. I only disagree with parts of things.

 

[Juliet]

Wearing jeans is not underdressed. Wearing ratty jeans that achieve the muffintop effect, and are ripped in places they never should be ripped with something equally ugly on top is underdressed. Wearing a ballgown to go hiking is overdressed.
Dressing tidily and stylishly, be it in jeans and shirt, or a suit is not a deviation from normal.

 

[Puzzicato]

If you feel overdressed, then you probably are overdressed for you trust your gut feelings, if you feel uncomfortable, maybe you need to tone it down a little , so you look more relaxed and have a smile on your face.

That is well said, Mr Beaumont!

Just make sure, whatever you decide to wear, you're wearing it because you want to. Looking great is, well, great. Don't lessen it by having the only reason you're bothering be because someone told you to. People here dress to the 9's because they want to. That's a lot more powerful a statement than the people who wore the exact same things decades ago, because they'd be stigmatized if they didn't. Sort of like any good behavior. If you only behave because of punishment, that's not half as good as behaving because it's right. There's a lot of good here, in my opinion. I only disagree with parts of things.

I totally agree with this. Looking great - by your own standard - definitely is great.