OTHER THAN eBAY Hats: Victories, Defeats, Gripes & Items of Interest

[wsmontana]

Thanks for the feedback Brent! I debated whether to clean the silver but I’m glad I did.

Do you think a liner would improve or take away from the hat? I noticed that some of the older Rand’s don’t have liners but not sure if that is by design or if they just get lost/removed over time. The writings in white add to the custom vibe but Rand’s does have some nice liners that fit the hat size and style.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

Thanks for the feedback Brent! I debated whether to clean the silver but I’m glad I did.

Do you think a liner would improve or take away from the hat? I noticed that some of the older Rand’s don’t have liners but not sure if that is by design or if they just get lost/removed over time. The writings in white add to the custom vibe but Rand’s does have some nice liners that fit the hat size and style.

Personally, I would put a liner in it. They make hats nominally warmer, but for hats without an inside crown stamp look unfinished without a liner. That’s just me though.

 

[Hurricane Jack]

Based on my research, I think the hat is around 50 years old.

Ritch Rand went into business in the mid-1970’s (‘74 or ‘76). He sold to the new owners & retired in the last 2-3 yrs.

His early hats were mostly 5X felt. The 5X was the Winchester felt du jour of the day. The 8X & 10X didn’t come into offer until the mid to late 1980’s. The 5X felt was also still being offered for dealers or customs wanting to keep costs down.

My guess is your hat was made in the mid to late 1980’s. I own a custom 8X made for me in 1989.

This is the liner original to your hat.

If you look behind the sweat you should find the date & other info written in pen.

 

[wsmontana]

Rich Rand went into business in the mid-1970’s (‘74 or ‘76). He sold to the new owners & retired in the last 2-3 yrs.

His early hats were mostly 5X felt. The 5X was the Winchester felt du jour of the day. The 8X & 10X didn’t come into offer until the mid to late 1980’s. The 5X felt was also still being offered for dealers or customs wanting to keep costs down.

My guess is your hat was made in the mid to late 1980’s. I own a custom 8X made for me in 1989.

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This is the liner original to your hat.

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If you look behind the sweat you should find the date & other info written in pen.

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Thanks for the information!

The gentleman to whom the hat was made lived from 1931-2001 so mid to late 80’s seems quite possible. Unfortunately, there is no writing on the inside of the sweatband. I showed a few pics of the hat to the folks at the Rand shop but they couldn’t narrow the date down much. I thought they might keep a record of customer build dates but no such luck.

Unfortunately none of the liners that the shop showed me look like yours. I’ll likely go with one with the Rand’s name that isn’t too modern looking.

Thanks again!

 

[Hurricane Jack]

Thanks for the information!

The gentleman to whom the hat was made lived from 1931-2001 so mid to late 80’s seems quite possible. Unfortunately, there is no writing on the inside of the sweatband. I showed a few pics of the hat to the folks at the Rand shop but they couldn’t narrow the date down much. I thought they might keep a record of customer build dates but no such luck.

Unfortunately none of the liners that the shop showed me look like yours. I’ll likely go with one with the Rand’s name that isn’t too modern looking.

Thanks again!

All the business records would be required to stay with Ritch unless the new owners had size & fit records if the owner had ordered a hat recently. I'm not surprised they didn't recognize the era the hat was made either. I get a quarterly billing statement for indoor climate controlled, varmint & rodent free, business records storage with 24 hr security protection, just in case the IRS comes after me or I get sued or called into a class action lawsuit for the next fifty yrs.

Unless you could find a doner hat with the correct liner I wouldn't put one in it. Without the correct liner the hat will never be fully restored to original condition & it will make no difference anyway. Is a 1957 Chevrolet with a 350 V8 crate motor & new seat covers really original or restored?

 

[Blare]

I’m a novice in fixing up hats but wanted to find a project hat to give it a try. I found this Rand’s hat that seemed like a good project without a huge loss if I bungled the job.

I’m happy with the way it turned out. I’m still debating whether to invest in a new liner — I can buy one from Rand’s for $14 to $25.

Based on my research, I think the hat is around 50 years old.

Here are some before and after pics.

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Well done. Really brought her back to life.

 

[wsmontana]

Thank you!

 

[wsmontana]

All the business records would be required to stay with Ritch unless the new owners had size & fit records if the owner had ordered a hat recently. I'm not surprised they didn't recognize the era the hat was made either. I get a quarterly billing statement for indoor climate controlled, varmint & rodent free, business records storage with 24 hr security protection, just in case the IRS comes after me or I get sued or called into a class action lawsuit for the next fifty yrs.

Unless you could find a doner hat with the correct liner I wouldn't put one in it. Without the correct liner the hat will never be fully restored to original condition & it will make no difference anyway. Is a 1957 Chevrolet with a 350 V8 crate motor & new seat covers really original or restored?

How likely is it to find a donor original liner? I like the idea of honoring the hat’s history but also want to protect the inside. I wouldn’t do anything to attach the liner so it would be easy to remove to get back to the original bare state. I guess I could get a cheap liner for protection since a modern Rand’s liner, as you say, likely won’t add value. Thanks again for your helpful input!

 

[Hurricane Jack]

How likely is it to find a donor original liner? I like the idea of honoring the hat’s history but also want to protect the inside. I wouldn’t do anything to attach the liner so it would be easy to remove to get back to the original bare state. I guess I could get a cheap liner for protection since a modern Rand’s liner, as you say, likely won’t add value. Thanks again for your helpful input!

Probably not likely since it's a Western & not a factory hat but you live in one of a few states where you might turn one up. Unless you plan to wear the hat daily, & you use a lot of hair gel products, I don't see your concern in protection without a liner. The hunt for documentation, preservation, & restoration of vintage hats is what the FL & collecting used to be about. Not the number of hats you have & what colors of customs you have them in.

Michael A has a beautiful Knox Twenty that quickly became one of his favorite hats of his collection, but it was missing the liner. He wore it without one. At some point in the past I had bought a pickup load of vintage hat boxes & in one of those boxes was a moth eaten Knox Twenty with a perfect Twenty liner that was in my parts box. I removed the liner & gave it to him to make his hat complete. So enjoy the process with your hat; you just never know what might turn up.

 

[deadlyhandsome]

How likely is it to find a donor original liner? I like the idea of honoring the hat’s history but also want to protect the inside. I wouldn’t do anything to attach the liner so it would be easy to remove to get back to the original bare state. I guess I could get a cheap liner for protection since a modern Rand’s liner, as you say, likely won’t add value. Thanks again for your helpful input!

Liners aren’t usually needed to protect the hat. Mostly, they are cosmetic. Another option is to get a generic liner so you’re not “forging” the restoration: just putting in a liner because you like them.

If I had a Rand’s liner from a different era I’d put it in that hat and never think twice about it. Do what you want, it’s your hat and it’s only a hat.

 

[Just Daniel]

Ha! Those auctions are a pain in the you know what. Those are some GREAT finds despite the packing! Let me know if that BRE doesn’t fit


I picked up that bowler you posted about earlier. It won’t ship 7ntil at least next week.

Oh well…

Gripe:

I won two lots at the same auction (a 1920s/30s Stetson BRE with a Portis box and lot of four hats with a 1930s Stetson Special, a trucker cap, a beret, a Swedish wool cap and a cheap straw hat).

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I asked that the two Stetsons be shipped in the Portis box (in a separate shipping box) and, if there was room they could add the beret and wool hat in the Portis box as they were pretty flat -- and asked them not to ship the straw or trucker hat. I also asked them to ship to my daughter's address as I knew I would not be home when they arrived. There was a delay in shipping as they initially billed me and indicated they were sending to my address -- not my daughters . It took a couple more days to change to my daughter's address , re-bill me, process my payment and ship the hats.

I also won another lot of hats from a different auction house. A vintage Resistol fedora that had a cheap modern fedora and a camo hat in the lot.

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I asked them to only ship the Resistol and keep the other two and specifically asked them to ship it to my daughter. They shipped and several days later I get a notification from USPS that I had a box coming to my city address (where I would not be). Since there was a foot of snow on the ground I attempted to change the delivery on-line to go to my daughter as I didn't want the box to land on my snowy porch or for her to travel to pick it up. The USPS website allowed me to enter her address, but the screen just blinked at me and showed no indication of success or an issue. I get another notification the next day that it was still coming to my address so I called the USPS and they said they could only hold it at the Post Office for me to pick up. Then they attempted delivery to my house anyway (with a foot of snow on the porch), decided that wouldn't work so they took it back ... and finally held it for me to pick up.

I was able to get both picked up today. I was very concerned about the Stetson BRE and Special as the box was very small.

My Open Road clone is on there for scale. The BRE lot is supposed to be in the box on the right.

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I expected the Resistol to be by itself in the box on the left. Nope -- the cheap fedora and camo came along for the ride.

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The shipment that was supposed to have two Stetsons in a Portis box (inside a separate shipping box) was missing the Stetson Boss Raw Edge hat and the Portis box. But hey -- it came with the straw and trucker hat! Seems like a fair trade, right?

I'll get better pics of the 1940s Resistol and 1930s Stetson Special tomorrow with better light. The auction house has been notified of the missing Stetson BRE. I'm not a happy camper.

 

[BobHufford]

Ha! Those auctions are a pain in the you know what. Those are some GREAT finds despite the packing! Let me know if that BRE doesn’t fit


I picked up that bowler you posted about earlier. It won’t ship 7ntil at least next week.

Oh well…

Thanks Daniel! The BRE (if it is ever found and delivered ... still just crickets from the auction house) is most likely a size 7. Not sure if I want to have it just to have it or if it should go out the door to fund the trouble I expect to get into at an upcoming local auction.

Did you get the No Name bowler?

 

[Just Daniel]

I won the Stetson with the rare-looking Stetson marker (and the sweatband that came out) posted earlier. Like most, I have too many bowlers, but this one looked late 1800s / early 1900s. I could not resist that old sweat stamp!

I’m interested to see what you think on the Special. I finally picked one up and I am pretty sure it is clearly the later $5 version rather than the earlier $20 model. I like it, and it is nice, but you can tell the other models from the 20s/30s are higher quality.

Keep me in mind if that BRE does not work out…a great catch, for once I did not even see a Stetson that was up for sale. Ha!

Thanks Daniel! The BRE (if it is ever found and delivered ... still just crickets from the auction house) is most likely a size 7. Not sure if I want to have it just to have it or if it should go out the door to fund the trouble I expect to get into at an upcoming local auction.

Did you get the No Name bowler?

 

[BobHufford]

I won the Stetson with the rare-looking Stetson marker (and the sweatband that came out) posted earlier.

Oh ... good! Glad to see that one end up with a Lounger. Yes, I does appear to be an old one!

There was a $20 Special?

My other "The Stetson Special" is older, but I think they were both $5 hats.

 

[Just Daniel]

Nice!

The original Special cost $20 until some mysterious point in the 20s/30s where it switched over to a $5 hat.

Doc has an early 1900s Special that is also marked a Twenty that I think he bought from Justin way back when.

Oh ... good! Glad to see that one end up with a Lounger. Yes, I does appear to be an old one!

There was a $20 Special?

My other "The Stetson Special" is older, but I think they were both $5 hats.

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[BobHufford]

I sure hope the BRE makes it!!

The auction house found it and will ship it ASAP. Whew!

 

[Rmccamey]

I have too many bowlers....

 

[Blare]

The auction house found it and will ship it ASAP. Whew!

 

[Blare]

I won the Stetson with the rare-looking Stetson marker (and the sweatband that came out) posted earlier. Like most, I have too many bowlers, but this one looked late 1800s / early 1900s. I could not resist that old sweat stamp!

I’m interested to see what you think on the Special. I finally picked one up and I am pretty sure it is clearly the later $5 version rather than the earlier $20 model. I like it, and it is nice, but you can tell the other models from the 20s/30s are higher quality.

Keep me in mind if that BRE does not work out…a great catch, for once I did not even see a Stetson that was up for sale. Ha!

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Sure looks like an oldie! Congratulations

 

[steur]

I was out for revenge this week, since my last failures (see previous page). I think succeeded. First one is another gripe that was still on the shelf.
This Woodrow looked promising on the seller's pics, but it turned out to be a sad and sorry misshapen heap of felt with no ambition to make a decent hat of itself. If even Fleur thinks so, there's no hope for this one.

The victories then.
Three Borsalinos

Paid less than 20 euros a piece for them. I'll have those, thank you very much.

And the most interesting one of the sale for me:
Severino in grey. Never heard of the brand before, but looked good enough to my eye.