On yer bike!

[billyspew]

Right Chaps - This is what I've got (took collection today).

1939 Saxon "Popular" 3 speed Lightweight (British).

The other pics were an example of "a" Saxon Lightweight, the one 'I've got' is 'a wee bit different' and is the "Popular" model with 3 speed Sturmey Archer gearing (needs fixing as stuck in third).

A DIY paint job (Hammerite paint?) needs to be stripped back and repainted and not damage the original transfers (??) - nigh impossible.

The lovely patina'd original celluloid handlebar grips 'AND' (I know - amazing huh!) mud-guards are all there and pretty much intact! A lovely 'ivory' colour has developed over the years.

The SAXON marked saddle...well...the leather is basically perished and needs to be binned - sad, I know! So need to find a replacement for that. Also, the original 1930's Lucas "King of the Road" bell was stolen off this bike *sigh*. I've been scouring junk yards for years now trying to find one anyway, but..no joy (and Ebay is just talking 'silly' prices). So, the Lucas Bell is another thing to look out for.
But, I'm truly chuffed to have found it (in the same county as me too! so not far to travel).

Looks really good Paddy, if you do choose to get it resprayed, H Lloyd might have the decals.

The Hub is a tough one but I've done it a couple of times and it gets easier (need to do it on another one next weekend).

 

[esteban68]

Ok Paddy, good find, as you say different from other pictures... ok here goes if the 'Popular' transfers are correct (they look to be replacements?)then it is a Saxon popular(you could buy transfers saying allsorts BITD) but the head transfer IS original.
Saxon did make a popular model,it was made from Accles & Pollock tubing, originally if it is the 1938 model it would have been all black with a blue headtube inset(the bit where the badge sits that is framed by the headtube lugs), it should have 26 x 1 1/4" wheels and the front hub should/may have 'SAXON' engraved into it's barrel?
The mudguards look to be original they appear to be made by Bluemels, the cranks again look original and were made by Williams awnd are the
B100 model, there will be a date code on both the cranks and chainwheel, you can find details of the dating system here http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/williamsdating.html the pedals again look original but look a bit past it, you should be able to get a NOS pair or a good secondhand pair quite easily for about £20.
The handle bars look to be of 30's design, if the chrome is good clean them and keep them, they may have been black cellulloid coated originally, Originally it may have just been fixed/free gears wise though it may be possible that the 3 speed rear was an optional extra, there will be a date code on the the, usually a letter followed by a number, if it 1939 and original it may just have A 9 on it, re the hub it may just want adjusting, try slackening off the cable at the rear conection better still fit a new cable as it's most probably cream cracered anyway, the seat post should be chrome and getting a replacement should be fairly easy, the brake may or may not be origninal as the levers appear to different from the one in the image below from the 1938 catalogue, it would only have one brake fitted if it were fixed/free.....though if the hub was an addition then adding a set that match would not be unusual;

 

[billyspew]

Ok Paddy, good find, as you say different from other pictures... ok here goes if the 'Popular' transfers are correct (they look to be replacements?)then it is a Saxon popular(you could buy transfers saying allsorts BITD) but the head transfer IS original.
Saxon did make a popular model,it was made from Accles & Pollock tubing, originally if it is the 1938 model it would have been all black with a blue headtube inset(the bit where the badge sits that is framed by the headtube lugs), it should have 26 x 1 1/4" wheels and the front hub should/may have 'SAXON' engraved into it's barrel?
The mudguards look to be original they appear to be made by Bluemels, the cranks again look original and were made by Williams awnd are the
B100 model, there will be a date code on both the cranks and chainwheel, you can find details of the dating system here http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/williamsdating.html the pedals again look original but look a bit past it, you should be able to get a NOS pair or a good secondhand pair quite easily for about £20.
The handle bars look to be of 30's design, if the chrome is good clean them and keep them, they may have been black cellulloid coated originally, Originally it may have just been fixed/free gears wise though it may be possible that the 3 speed rear was an optional extra, there will be a date code on the the, usually a letter followed by a number, if it 1939 and original it may just have A 9 on it, re the hub it may just want adjusting, try slackening off the cable at the rear conection better still fit a new cable as it's most probably cream cracered anyway, the seat post should be chrome and getting a replacement should be fairly easy, the brake may or may not be origninal as the levers appear to different from the one in the image below from the 1938 catalogue, it would only have one brake fitted if it were fixed/free.....though if the hub was an addition then adding a set that match would not be unusual;

Great work with the ad!

Does say that the Blue Lustre finish was extra though?

 

[esteban68]

The ad's from my lightweight No2 catalogue available from the VCC library, it could be any colour underneath then( I didn't notice the extra finish bit) you'd need to carefully 'sand' away somehwere under the BB is agood area to see the original colour, obviously you'd only do this if you intend to refinish it....I've successfully repainted several bikes using Smoothrite black from aeorsol cans and the finish IS as good as any I've seen ( being an industrial spray painter as part of my job in a previous life helps) you'll need about 3-4 cans and preperation IS everthing, you'd get it blasted and repainted for about £100 depending on colour scheme chosen...I'd keep the saddle and swap the SAXON plate onto another saddle, yours looks like a Lycett?
good tyres for 26 x 1 1/4" can be difficult to get I've swapped some of my wheels for 26 x 1 3/8" which gives better comfort and a greater choice of decent-ish tyres, you could even use alloy rims which can still be found in the 3/8" sizing.

 

[billyspew]

The ad's from my lightweight No2 catalogue available from the VCC library, it could be any colour underneath then( I didn't notice the extra finish bit) you'd need to carefully 'sand' away somehwere under the BB is agood area to see the original colour, obviously you'd only do this if you intend to refinish it....I've successfully repainted several bikes using Smoothrite black from aeorsol cans and the finish IS as good as any I've seen ( being an industrial spray painter as part of my job in a previous life helps) you'll need about 3-4 cans and preperation IS everthing, you'd get it blasted and repainted for about £100 depending on colour scheme chosen...I'd keep the saddle and swap the SAXON plate onto another saddle, yours looks like a Lycett?
good tyres for 26 x 1 1/4" can be difficult to get I've swapped some of my wheels for 26 x 1 3/8" which gives better comfort and a greater choice of decent-ish tyres, you could even use alloy rims which can still be found in the 3/8" sizing.

If going for respraying I'd go for powder coating, that stuff is (practically) bullet proof.
The 26 1 1/4 are fairly easy to get hold of at the moment - Kenda and Raleigh both do them, in black, amber walls or white walls. Although the 1 3/8 would be more comfortable.

 

[PADDY]

Phew ..! (I'm having a quick cuppa break at work here), you've thrown loads of great info at me & already the brain cogs are whirling over all the options open to me.

Quite a bit of choice on the paint livery alone (I'll get back to you on prep advice if I opt for spraying the frame myself if that's ok?). From red to blue to black to green. Black might be a nice option though and with either amber or white walled tyres applied, make for a head-turning combo.

The transfers are ALL ORIGINAL hence my dilemma on respray. But...the DIY PAINT job has already so damaged the decals/transfers (That's probably 'why' you might have thought from the pics that they were repros, as the handpainting around them doesn't look great to be honest) that it might be best going for the strip & respray.

ONLY thing that is a problem "afterwards" is the the "proper" decals for the front (Saxon ) and the "Popular" are not available even as repops. But 'that' is a sacrifice 'for the greater cause' I'll have to make it seems...

More later -work calls!

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[PADDY]

The gears are marked AW-8. As I understand this is a 1938 AT 3-speed (AW) hub with rivetted on 110mm drum brake. It's manually worked from a brass Quadrant shifter (GC1) on the rider's cross bar. So that puts the bike at Circa 1938-39.

 

[esteban68]

Here's the SA heritage site page for the AT, Saxon went pop in 1939, their premises were destroyed by bombing but I think they'd closed before that? after the war Claud Butler bought the rights to the name and he reintroduced the twin tube design. later in 1950 the name was again sold this time to Norman cycles and they made some cycles under the Saxon name however they weren't real Saxons unlike yours which is.
You really shouldn't have too much trouble sourcing parts , cycle jumbles and VCC members should be good sources also putting an ad in the News and Views has always yielded results for me in the past.

 

[botty]

As requested here is a photo of my 1943 German army bicycle. I will try to take some better ones when it is back together after a crank repair if people are interested.

 

[PADDY]

Thanks for sharing and good luck in getting your crank sorted.

 

[esteban68]

As requested here is a photo of my 1943 German army bicycle. I will try to take some better ones when it is back together after a crank repair if people are interested.

Please do, more photos of this machine would be well appreciated on here I am sure.

 

[PADDY]

Got myself an old Brooks saddle to attach the brass SAXON badge to. The original saddle has perished.

 

[PADDY]

Any pointers/recommendations to people/companies that produce DECALS for vintage bikes? The only one I can find that will produce some semblance of my SAXON 1930's decals (not completely accurate, but say they are 'close enough!') is Lloyds in England.
Or is anyone out there good enough to reproduce from photos if I take shots from my bike?

It's decals/transfers I'm after for putting on the bike 'after' respray but before it gets lacquered.

Thanks for your help with this Gents (and Lady Cyclists too).

 

[Edward]

Paddy, just a thought but have you tried looking into whether you can get some sort of paper or film onto which you can print decals at home? I'm thinking here of having seen T shirt printer aper, even paper for temporary tattoos in PC World...... maybe some art shop that produces something?

Another alternative out of leftfield..... a few years ago my dad restored a wee Honda 360. Rare beast - the model never made it into the UK officially because of our insurance system (350cc was the cut off of one band, the next one was up to 500cc or thereabouts - Honda reckoned nobody wanted to be paying up an insurance class for the sake of an extra 10cc, so they ever imported it here). Dad's was privately shipped over originally by a US military guy. Lovely wee bike. Anyhoo... When he was finishing the restoration, he needed decals for the fuel tank. They were available as repro, but well expensive. For a fraction of the price, a local signwriter (guy up in Coleraine) painted the "decals" direct onto the tank. Airbrush, and a clearcoat over the top. Looked identical to the real thing, unless you looked really close. Not sure whether that might be an option here?

 

[esteban68]

Paddy in the past I've traced off onto good quality but thin plain paper and painted in the design with acrylic paints, cut it out and stuck on with wood glue then varnished over the whole thing...I've one in the shed (a Potts 'special' ) that's been on at least 5 years and shows no sign of fading or coming off.
Obviously you'll need to be a bit arty!

 

[PADDY]

Now THAT does sound rather 'too much' like Rolf Harris or Tony Hart'ish for me!hahaa!
actually, I'm not ruling it out as an option and it may just come to that, especially for the "POPULAR" decal.

I'm chuffed that I've managed to get the brass SAXON badge onto the old Brooks saddle.

 

[Gin&Tonics]

Any pointers/recommendations to people/companies that produce DECALS for vintage bikes? The only one I can find that will produce some semblance of my SAXON 1930's decals (not completely accurate, but say they are 'close enough!') is Lloyds in England.
Or is anyone out there good enough to reproduce from photos if I take shots from my bike?

It's decals/transfers I'm after for putting on the bike 'after' respray but before it gets lacquered.

Thanks for your help with this Gents (and Lady Cyclists too).

I might have just the ticket for you; if you go into just about any decent hobby shop that sells model kits and scale modeling materials, you will find water-transfer decal paper that you can put in your printer at home. You know the decals that you wet and then slide off the backing and onto the model? If you can get a good enough digital image of what you want to transfer, you can just print it out on the paper and transfer it right onto your bike just like decals for plastic model kits.

Naturally the decal by itself won't stand up to the elements, but if you make sure the surface is well prepped before you apply and spray some clear lacquer over top of it once it's applied, I imagine it will hold up just fine.

At the very least, if it doesn't work, you've invested very little cash in the attempt. Hope that helps you out!

 

[esteban68]

If I recall corrrectly there were a few 'Popular' models from different makers, Lloyds may have a few, it may well be worth getting in touch with them.
You can get single letters too so could at least get the popular for the seattube and saxon for the downtube sides, they wouldn't be exactly right but are better than nothing.
I think whatever you choose to do the first thing you need is a very clear scan/photo of the correct headbadge before you can do anything, again you might try an ad in the N&V...there's an article on classic lightweights detailing how to make your own transfers by Keith Hellon IIRC?

 

[PADDY]

Just a few things whilst I'm on the move here.

1. Some great ideas on the Transfers chaps. Been reading the Keith Hellon piece and will have to print it out and digest it as it doesn't appear 'easy,' but does appear to be very effective with the end results (if I can follow it!).

2. See PHOTOS attached:
a) Have been attaching an old 'King of the Road' Lucas Bell (really need a smaller one for the 1938 Saxon - but they are 'so expensive' on the second hand market).

b) I was told by a few people that my 1930's celluloid mud-guards 'would never' be 'white' again (as they have yellowed with the years to an ivory). Well...didn't this silly Irishman use the good weather today to try some cheap acetone laden nail polish remover and fine wire wool on the celluloid? I just took my time and used very gentle movements with coffees in between, so no rush! Have a look at the results Gents..!! I've put a finished one beside one that hasn't been touched (iphone photos, so excuse the quality please).
**The one on the left has been 'done.' The light and the photo quality doesn't 'really' show just how different they are. One is a light mustard colour (before), the other is a white (after). ***

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[esteban68]

Big bells were in in the 30's Paddy it looks fine to me, good job on the mudguards, autosol does a good job too, you might want to make an aluminium repair piece to go under the cracked rear mudguard then re rivet it through the stay mounts....these old guards being thin often crack and getting an early unblemished pair is nigh on impossible....yes Keiths piece does take some understanding but as you say the results are good.I'll stick with my Rolf Harris solution though I think as all it costs is time and patience!
If you can get a good scan of the headbadge I'll happily acrylic over it then all you'll need to do is stick it on and varnish over it...FOC obviously.