Old vs New

[Section10]

It seems kind of odd in a way. Someone like me who has experienced such a variety things both old and new. Why do I still like the old over the new? Could it be practicality? -- In all honesty, probably not. Is the old actually better? -- Not necessarily. Cheaper? -- No. Then why? I propose an alternative reason.

I believe the answer lies in us. I believe it is how we are designed. We are natural beings -- we are "of" nature; as much as any other animal out there. Of course I don't really equate us with animals exactly, but we are still natural beings living in a natural world. As such we are designed to respond to those elements which make up our natural environment. We are "tuned" to them in a sense. Nature is where our nurturing and our comfort comes from (speaking on a physical level). Therefore it is from nature that our awareness of these desirables is kindled. Really, why do we love cashmere and sneer at polyester? Because cashmere is of nature and polyester is artificial. Cashmere triggers a response in us that polyester does not. Why do we love wooden items and turn up our noses at the same thing made of plastic? Because wood somehow touches something within us that plastic does not. Why do I like old cars and not new ones? I've driven plenty of both, and new cars certainly offer more go for the buck than the old ones do. But old ones have a feel of substance, a smell and touch of natural fabrics, leather, rubber, metal. New cars speak to me of plastic and strange foreign brews of who knows what. I do not have a common sense of identity with a new car that I have in an old one.

I believe it is possible for humans to lose touch with the natural triggers that are built into us. But losing that awareness is a learned thing. Our society continually teaches us that new is better; more is richer and science will always deliver all we need whenever we want it. When we fall for that, we begin to lose the cognizance of the natural world. We begin to lose our identity. We begin to deny our hearts and our souls in exchange for an unnatural lust that will leave us forever hungry and continually wanting more and more of what can never satisfy.

 

[Jay]

As deep as that was, I understand perfectly-Something is lacking in modern things.

 

[Lena_Horne]

I understand it as well. Maybe it's the realization that the majority of the products we consume today don't even go through human hands anymore before they get to us. Understanding that a tailor didn't take the measurements, that we're wearing something that was mass produced to fit the largest amount of people as possible. That even though profit was a factor, it went toward feeding the tailor's family, not buying that second speedboat for the second vacation house. They were spending their lives taking part in a craft that they loved and could use to help others. A machine can't do that. Furniture was designed and handmade with real wood, nails and sweat. People lived around the people they were helping. And the tag didn't have "Made in Taiwan" sewn into it.

When they saw a brand new Model A Ford, they knew some worker had earned five dollars a day putting it together because Henry Ford wanted to support the economy by giving a fair wage that would allow his workers to go out and buy the things they needed, and usually that included an American made Ford. When and if they went out to eat they sat down in a clean restaurant and was served real, cooked food on real plates with real silverware. The only paper was in the napkin and that was only if linen was unavailable for some reason. Their coffee came in a ceramic cup and was meant to be drank where they sat, not guzzled in the car while they drove some place.

When they were sick or giving birth their doctor came to see them. And that birth would be announced to the neighborhood and would be well received. Instead of setting down in front of their television or computer screens (I'm guilty of this as you can probably tell) they might be entertaining friends in the living room or going out to a live show.

And admittedly people spent a great deal of time working, either a factory job twelve hours, or a desk job just as long and just as tasking. But they were paid that decent wage and didn't expect to fill every room in the house with televisions or radios. They saw movies in the theatre and went to the ballpark or crowded around the radio with friends when the home team was playing. And their children did the same.

I'm not saying it was a complete utopia, but there's a distinct difference in the satisfaction one might have gained back then and the one experienced today. The latest iPod model or newest sneaker style does not a happy life make. And while furs and pearls were treasured, their value was appreciated a lot more than today.

L_H

 

[Vladimir Berkov]

I think there is just something almost inherently attractive about "real things." Real things are those things which are made to last, well-designed or unique. When you use a real thing it makes the experience just a bit more special.

 

[DanielJones]

Natural fibers feel correct. The smell of leather, the feel of hard wood, the warmth of wool flannell, the softness of silk and the solidness of steel,it just can't be beat. It's probably why the English still spend a lot of time refining the interior of a Jag, instead of working on their electrical systems. There is far too much synthetic in the world today. It's an assault on the sences. We live in a very disposable society, where if something is a bit faded and worn we just throw it away instead of taking a little bit of time to refurbishing it and bring back it's glory. Toys break so easily anymore. Why? Because they were built to be disposed of in one year so Santa can bring a new one again. The Tonka Truck for instance was sheet steel with solid plastic wheels and window. I used to ride mine down our street when I was little. Mine took a beating from you know where and kept on trucking. Now that same beating & ride would have it broken in five minutes. The same goes for our modern vehicles. Oh, yeah, they go alright, no doubt about that. But they don't last like the old timers. They don't have staying power. I see so many cars from the 40' & 50's still running (stock, not modified), but 50 to 60 years from now will you see the modern car still holding up. No. Built to break down.
Oak furnature is replaced with laminated particle board, a metal mix master is replaced with a plastic food processor, a wool mackinaw replaced by something made from shredded plastic bottles and good silk ties replaced with nylon. The world just isn't real any more. That's why we gravitate to the vintage items in our lives. They had heft & substance. They were real, from a real time in a real place made by and for real people. Now, in our disposable instant gratification society that doesn't have even one minute to wait on a cup of water to heat up, everything is fake, lightweight and dangerous for the inviroment. We have no time to relax any more. Everything needs to be done yesterday, or it isn't good enough. Polarfleese is nice, but it doesn't compare to wool. We now live in a superficial plastic and nurf coated world because the real world is just too harsh and dangerous. Cars have no grace and style, and our modern furnature has lost that warm glow of something natural and not man made.
But hey, that's just my two cents. Time to get off my soapbox and hit the sack.

Cheers!

Dan

 

[Wild Root]

:cry: :cry: :cry:

Everything you have all said is beautiful and very true! I'm moved to tears!

I love the old very much for the same reasons you have all shared.

For me, I found peace and joy in vintage because it is real and not fake. Even the early plastic of the 30's and 40's seems ok because it was made out of vegetables or something natural.

Press board is one of our enemies! We live in a throw it a way world and well, I'm not that kind of guy. I feel horrible throwing away junk mail because of the work the designers put into make it! I hate throwing things away. I'm not a wasteful person.

I love wood, I love soft worm wool, I love old cars period! Old cars are great! They may take some time to start, they're slower, they're bad on gas but, heck and you?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢ll make more friends with an old car then anything of today! People will stop you all the time and want to talk about your car! I get such a peaceful feeling when I'm driving my old car! They just have class and style! The smell of an old car is just fantastic! Old mohair is grand!

The old that I buy is mostly cheaper! Heck, I paid only 19.95 for a 1930's iron bed frame! It's just knowing where to shop one can find good deals I guess. But, I have saved money buying antiques or vintage.

Also the old music speaks to me. You can hear the imperfections in it, the raw crude recording equipment back then made music feel real some what. I love the sound of a needle on a record! Just sends me!

I'm a fish out of water I feel some times in this day and age. Give me the goods with age! No new, it will be old in a week or two.

Good night every one,

=WR=

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Gentlemen (and Ladies?), your sentiments regarding products of the past - clothing construction, toys, furniture, cars - are echoed by the Baron.

But to rain on the parade perhaps, i suggest that everyday life in the period we're talking about (20s-40s) wasn't quite so idyllic as we might think. Life was hard and tough, people were poor and if we were back then we'd be poor too and wouldn't have the clothing or cars we lust after. Wages, under the control of the robber barons, were not good. Union representation was largely ineffective at best until the 40s. In other words, the way of life was not too different from today. It was as humdrum as ever for the normal guy or gal.

There would have been people in the golden era who yearned for a return to the staid vctorian aesthetic and rueing the day that modern styles made their appearance. Hell, we might even have been those people!!

So really i agree, but for different reasons. The atmosphere/environment of the golden era was just as artificial as the one we have today, but our particular aesthetic sense likes the things that people had back then. We shouldn't kid ourselves with utopian visions of the era as perfect for human existence. We were designed (by evolution or whatever else one may believe) as hunter-gatherers Only for people with our particular aesthetic sensibilities is that short space of time we call the golden era a utopia.

Hope i didn't rain too much on anyone's philosophical thoughts. Not the intention ...

bk

 

[Wild Root]

Good points made sir. On the other side of the coin, I say that life is what you make of it no matter what time period. If some of us have skills that were in high demand in those days, then, well I'm sure that things wouldn't be so bleak in the cash department. I'm an artist and well, my style and enjoyment to draw with raw materials (talking non computer art) would have been something I could have done with success. Today?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s advertising art is all done in computer programs and so, the hand drawn stuff is cave man tech.

In the 30's there were families who still had money because they were wise and saved. Yes the numbers of families who didn't have much out way the numbers of those who had money but, I have talked to some saying that those were the best days of their lives and others that said the opposite.

Just like today, there is poor and rich, life is hard no matter what time period. Life wasn't intended to be easy. Yes, we have some good things in this era we live and I'm grateful but, I'd sure like to live in a world with out so many free ways and traffic! Take trains to places, not have to worry about terrorists and have the tallest building in LA being that of City Hall.

=WR=

PS. You didn't rain on any parades.

 

[Michaelson]

Sorry, though I agree and practice what is preached here, I'm also chuckling to myself. What we now reverently consider 'old' and great in perceived quality, in many respects, those exact same items were considered complete crud to our parents when they were young, and this stuff was new to them. (I hear almost everytime I see my parents, both in their 80's how they can't believe I love stuff they have tried to throw out as 'junk', when I call it treasure!) THEY thought the materials made and used by THEIR parents was the REAL deal...and on and on. Everytime I talk to my Mom, she asks if I'm still 'driving that old car' (my 1950 Plymouth), and how I really need to get something worth driving. (even though they were hard core MOPAR owners for almost 50 years![huh] )

I find myself shaking my head everytime I see a commercial of someone talking nostalgically about the 60's and 70's! One person stated catagorically on a recent PBS show that Disco was the last great American music movement that ever took place in this country!

And so it goes.....every generation will look back and say 'now THAT was when they made good stuff', and the older generation will just shake their heads and head to the mall to buy new stuff.

Regards! Michaelson

 

[Baron Kurtz]

One person stated catagorically on a recent PBS show that Disco was the last great American music movement that ever took place in this country!

And so it goes.....every generation will look back and say 'now THAT was when they made good stuff', and the older generation will just shake their heads and head to the mall to buy new stuff.

Regards! Michaelson

Man, those polyester disco suits. Those plaids!!! Sharp. Now that's when they really MADE clothes.

bk

 

[Michaelson]

groan.

You just had to remember NEVER to back up to a space heater wearing those 'threads'. They'd melt right off your body, and you didn't even know it had happened....until you walked out the door!

I stepped into a 'vintage clothing' store in the Nashville area last month, and all they HAD were 70's era clothing. VINTAGE!!!????

Regards! Michaelson

 

[Lauren]

Unfortunately, that's the trend now- 70's and 80's vintage. You'd be surprised how much the stuff sells for. In my experience I get more inquiries for the "retro" stuff than thetrue vintage, which is why selling is now my hobby. I refuse to cave in to the current niche!

I agree with you on the natural contents- with the exception in fabrics of Rayon- which is a natural synthetic. I would much rather have something, whether clothing or furniture or accents of natural origin than mass produced products of a temporary nature.

 

[Michaelson]

Some how, seeing '70's and 80's' and the word 'vintage' being used in the same sentence, makes me feel, well, kind of tired.

Regards! Michaelson

 

[Section10]

I've never envisioned myself as a fan of any particular era over another. And of course junk has been made throughout all of history. And "old" does not necessarily equal "quality". I tend to see the attraction not as nostalgia or a fascination with a bygone way of life, but as a natural response to the raw materials that objects are made of. Materials in the past were much more basic and limited than today. Is that good or bad? It entirely depends on where you're coming from. In the medical field and in other technical applications plastics are indispensable, but in this discussion, that's beside the point. Years ago the final product was usually very close to the original raw material that it came from. Today the raw material is often some chemical soup that not one person in ten thousand could understand or explain. I cannot relate to that. It is foreign to me. Does it perform better than what it replaced? Perhaps it does and perhaps I may even need it very badly. But it strikes no chord in my heart and on the strength of that alone it will always have an inherent inferiority in my eyes.

 

[Wild Root]

Oh my, D?ɬ©j?ɬ† vu! I swear we have had this talk before. Comparing old to new is some what like Apples to Oranges. But, I?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢ll tell you one thing, I have been collecting for over 10 years now and well, when I look at things that are new and the materials used, vintage always reigns superior! Even the stuff that was made cheaply back then is still better made then what is cheaply made today! The standard of manufacturing was higher then and also the lack of most synthetic materials also plays a part. Look at how much metal, wood and leather was used in most items of those eras! Today, anything made of real wood, metal or leather commands a high price because plastic is cheaper. I use vintage everything on a daily basis with the exception of my PC. That stuff was made to last no matter what you say! They didn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t know it when it was new but, like I said, the standard was higher, look at what happened in the 60?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s an 70?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s when companies started to farm out to other countries! Stuff made here in the US became expensive junk. Today, no one buys American made stuff because so much good stuff can be made at the fraction of the price over seas. It?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s a big time racquet! I like the 30?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s and the 40?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s era because a guy could make a living pumping gas! A guy could work in a nice department store and make enough money to support a family! And the guy would stay with that company for many years! The Depression was a bad time and there were lots of men out of work. That?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢s why I like the years of 1938-1941! Those years are just as things were getting back on track before the war came to the US.

I think people were very different in attitude back then. Being selfish wasn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t very popular. Yes, there were people that were but, the people in my family weren?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t. During WWII I will have to say was the only time any one would have seen kids donate their toys to the war effort! The US came together to scrap, ration and save for the war! And if you didn?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢t you were not very popular with the masses!

Some mighty fine people came from that generation! And it pains me great to know we?¢‚Ǩ‚Ñ¢re losing them every day.

I enjoy a vintage lifestyle today with some of the conveyances of today.

=WR=

 

[DanielJones]

My Grand parents on my fathers side faired well durring the depression thanks to the smarts of my Grandmother. They were a taylor and seamstress respectively. My Grandmother bought into a parnership at the textile mill she worked at. They weren't rich. But they had a roof over their heads, clothes on their back and food in their bellies. All done because they played it smart and didn't fall to the wayside like so many did. They didn't have to suffer and scrape, but they had to be wise with their money, and that was the key to their survival.
As far as good were conserned, yes, there was junk that was made. But the average stuff was of good quality, and that's why it's still around today. My folks have an old Westinghouse refridgerator that was bought in 1954. It is still running and is fairly efficient, as it doesn't draw a ton of electricity. They have gone through several fridges since the 1970's but that one keeps on truckin'. Plus, folks didn't view their possessions as disposable, they took pride and care of the things they owned because it was hard earned. From the house they lived in to the car they drove.
Today, some folks, not all, view things as disposable because they have been handed everything to them from when they were kids. They never had to earn a thing. My folks grew up in the depression and taught me the value of a dollar and how hard it is to earn that dollar. They taught me that if you break one of your toys, there won't be another one to replace it. And I'm passing that knowledge down. I don't let anything go to waste in our home. If it can be fixed, I do it. I don't just throw it away to buy a new one just because its a bit shabby or some part broke.
Yes, folks today have it easier than they had it then. Technology is a wonderful thing that has been a great help, but it is also a curse, in that once we have a power failure and our technology shuts down, we don't know what to do. WildRoot as an artist (I am as well) can still make a living doing cave man art. Whereas the computer artist has a hard time if their computer doesn't function. I as a land surveyor can still get the job done with a transit, tape and plumbob if needbe. The only problem I see with technology today is most people will turtle without it. They're helpless. Chashiers are a perfect example. Most young grocery cashiers can't even make simple change in their heads without the aid of the computerized cash register. I've seen it time and again.
But, to each his/her own. There are those of us that like the old stuff because it is something that has history. It's been around long enough to tell great stories if the item could talk. I think that's the thing for me. I'm a history buff. So when I hold something vintage or drive an old car, or walk into a 1930's house I think of the life that has been in and around tose things. The lives that they have experienced and the history they contain. Sor of like tha movie "The Red Violin". It had a story to tell, even if it isn't an audibel story. It's all about the story & history.
But hey, that's just my two cents.

Cheers!

Dan

 

[Section10]

I agree with everything you just said. One reason the old things last longer is because they are often simpler. Simplicity tends to longevity and complexity defeats it. No matter how well something is made, if it is too complicated (modern appliances for example) it will cause trouble. And if it becomes too troublesome it gets discarded. And the consumer usually winds up with something even worse. If everything lasted 50 years there'd be nothing to grease the wheels of commerce. We throw things away because they are replaceable. Very little gets fixed anymore; it gets replaced. I brought an almost new weed whacker into a shop for repairs not long ago and the repairman said the best thing I should do was to toss it and buy a new one. I suppose it's partly my fault. 60 years ago the whole world managed to function just fine without weed whackers but now it seems I just can't get along with out one. It appears consumers are made and not born. We are all a product of our contemporary (and temporary) society.

 

[Johnny Bravo]

One reason the old things last longer is because they are often simpler. Simplicity tends to longevity and complexity defeats it. No matter how well something is made, if it is too complicated (modern appliances for example) it will cause trouble. And if it becomes too troublesome it gets discarded.

The KISS methodology, Keep it Simple, Stupid.

 

[jamespowers]

This is a very interesting thread and many facets of the Golden Era have been raised. Time and toil is one of these that I just do not see as getting better today. Root touched on part of it.
In the 1940s a husband could raise a family on a single salary and the wife could stay home and keep house, raise the kids and fill in when her husband was at work. Nowadays, you have to be rich as heck to be a single income family. There were less things to buy but you could still make do. Healthcare was cheaper and the good you bought lasted a while. Not all people worked their heads off either. Many union jobs had eight hour work days and bang you were home to see a home cooked dinner put on the table. There was time to spend with the children whether it involved homework or just a round of catch. Life was at a much slower pace. You anticipated the weekend to spend with family. They were not far flung across the continent either. Most people livedint he same city as their parents did because they could find jobs that afforded them a living right there. This also gave them built in babysitting services for free and from trustworthy people who held the same values as they did.
It is funny to think that this was my father's generation! He graduated from high school in 1948. In one generation we have managed to screw up a whole lot.
The explanation of the quality of goods is really kind of funny. You see people had a lot of pride in their work then. Even if they were the garbage man, they were the best garbage man they could be. Their parents who had gone through the depression taught them the value of a dollar and to give a dollar's labor for a dollar's worth of pay. You see the executives at GM still wanted to sell cars. They had a certain amount of planned obsolesence involved but the people working on the line had nothing to do with that. They put those cars together to last. Their parts suppliers supplied them with the best they could put out at a profit as well because their reputation depended on it. So when you put it all together right it lasted. The executives would have liked you to trade in your car every two or three years for a new model as they changed the body style, and many people did, but there were just as many who didn't see anything wrong with their current car. Times changed and so did attitudes toward new versus old things. The advertising moguls and new product manufacturers put the "1984 effect" into full force with emphasizing new, new, new. Don't repair just buy new.
This is what happened in the 1960s-1970s. The rarest thing you can find now are old Fleet Option vehicles particularly trucks. They just didn't want to spend money even replacing the brakes on an old truck. Just buy a new one. Thus this is why I own one of the rarest trucks out there in the US. There are less than 100 left in the entire US from 3 years of production! They were scrapped mostly. I am happy to have it though it came without a radio, heater, ashtray, interior lights or even running boards but it is still a workhorse today---nearly fifty years later. Imagine that from a F150 or Ram or Z71. Forget it. They will all be long gone not even 100 will be left in 50 years.
All in all, life back then was slower. People had more leisure time and they were more connected to their community they lived in. If someone got robbed it was likely they knew who did it. Children were more respectful because they were constantly being watched even if it was not their parents it was the neighbor who told their parents what was going on. You could get away with very little. The goods you bought were likely produced at a factory or store in the community where you knew the people running the place. Their reputation was on the line with every product they sold. So was the average factory worker's or even regular laborer.
It is easy to see why we would appreciate vintage objects. They were made with care and by people who took pride in what they were doing.

Regards to all,

J

 

[Lauren]

DanielJones, you have voiced everything perfectly. I am a history buff myself, so I do exactly the same thing whenever I get something old or walk into an old place- and unlike the "collectors" who want everything perfect I find the marks on books, magazines, patterns, etc a mark of love. I love finding clippings stuck in old dress patterns, reciepts with fabric, flowers pressed into pages of old books, names scribbled on magazines. These show the items existed but were loved. There is a difference, of course, when things have been stored improperly- but when the imperfections are marks of love it's all the more endearing.

JamesPowers also touches on something- as a woman we lost much of our ability to make the choice to stay at home with the family when we fought so hard for our "equal rights". I would rather be cherished, have seats given up for me, doors opened for me, arms offered to me- in return for loving and caring for children, home and husband- rather than fight the grueling fight of 8-5 and put my someday children into the daycare. I WANT to learn the things women have forgotten- how to garden, cook, clean, sew- teach children, instill values, go to church- love my husband. Women are free to choose- but it seems more often than not we're looked down on by our fellow sisters for choosing the things that I want!

Of course a large part of this is my old fashioned nature- but much more of it is my belief system- which is unfortunately unshared by many women of the same faith.