Now Forming! the Campaign Hat Corps

[deanglen]

Deanglen, I pushed the crown of my Man Mountain Dean hat out and got it completely open. It measures 5.25 inches. Allowing for years of neglect and some settling, I'd still be hard pressed to make it be 5.5 inches as an open crown hat, although it might give a bit more if it was placed on an open crown block. Even the little TR photo you attach to your postings shows a much lower crown than the Dirty Billy hat, which, by the way, is a killer hat all on its own. I'm just posting what I'm seeing for the sake of discussion.

Uncle Vern, Frankly I have very little documentation on the dimensions of those hats other than a few things I've run across on the internet, so I hope I haven't given the impression of being an expert, which I am not, and I really appreciate the discussion as an opportunity to learn more, so by all means keep it going! How about this idea: Contractors sold hats to the government with approximate dimensions, knowing that cutting back an inch here and there would help them produce more hats more quickly, and cheaply as regards felt composition, etc.

I have looked long and hard at the vintage photographs I've found and am sure that the dimension of those hats varied, and in some cases, significantly, especially the brims! The crowns as well give evidence of variance. Officers were expected to buy their own hats, and that must have resulted in quite a variety of dimensions as those guys wanted to look smart! I haven't seen too many pictures yet with an officer using the "montana" peak! Hm-mmm.

As regards that style of peak, as in the TR icon, the montana peak, INMHO, looks much better with a lower crown, and yet by WWI the campaign hats still look high at the crown, compared to mid 1900s examples I've seen. Actually what I love about the Lounge is our interest and willingness to discuss such seemingly minute details, how about you?

 

[deanglen]

Here's some info:
http://www.bar-w.com/campaign-hats.html

 

[deanglen]

More Info

Check out these examples of originals, you have to scroll down the page when you click to enlarge the hat images on each page; they appear in the middle of the page:

http://www.oshkoshmuseum.org/Virtual/exhibit4/e40109a.htm

http://www.oshkoshmuseum.org/Virtual/exhibit4/e40121a.htm

http://www.oshkoshmuseum.org/Virtual/exhibit4/e40128a.htm

http://www.oshkoshmuseum.org/Virtual/exhibit4/e40141a.htm

Not one of them has a 3" brim! Hard to be dogmatic about dimensions!

 

[Uncle Vern]

I'm with you on the details, deanglen. They're mighty important. Nice research on the hats from the museum. I wonder why there was such variation in brim and crown sizes?
The plot thickens on Man Mountain Dean. There was actually a son, Man Mountain Dean, Jr., who also wrestled. I'm on it.

 

[deanglen]

More shots, more campaign hats

For those who care to view them. Notice the VARIETY of bashes, crown and brim dimensions:

 

[scotrace]

I'll try and post a picture of President Garfield's campaign hat. I snapped it yesterday while touring his home in Mentor, Ohio.

 

[deanglen]

Found more photos from 1898-1899:

 

[Vladimir Berkov]

It's interesting how in the pictures you can see the gradual transition away from the trap-door Springfield infantry rifle towards the Krag rifle and carbine. Although in all likelyhood many of the men in the pictures carried the trap-door until after the Spanish-American war.

 

[deanglen]

It's interesting how in the pictures you can see the gradual transition away from the trap-door Springfield infantry rifle towards the Krag rifle and carbine. Although in all likelyhood many of the men in the pictures carried the trap-door until after the Spanish-American war.

Vladimir, found this on the web:

and this link
http://patentpending.blogs.com/patent_pending_blog/firearms_patentstechnology/index.html

hope you enjoy them! Any opinion on the hats?

 

[mikepara]

Look at this campaign hat..

..I just got this original photo PC. WW1 I think and probably Oz but wow!

 

[deanglen]

..I just got this original photo PC. WW1 I think and probably Oz but wow!

The crown to brim ratio must be 2:3! Love the way its buttoned up on the left. TR wore his that way, and I read that it was done to avoid the brim coming into contact with the rifle barrel and becoming soiled when carried at left shoulder, is it "shift"...I'm not sure of the nomenclature. Nice pic, mikepara, and thanks for posting it!

Dean

 

[Baggers]

You are correct sir. The origin of fastening the brim up on the left side of the slouch was to prevent the brim from interfering with the rifle when carried "at the slope," or left shoulder arms.

As you can imagine, the wiiide brim of the hat in that last photo would have caught the rifle when the weapon has being "thrown" up to the shoulder, which is the actual term used in describing the movement in the manual!

Cheers!

 

[clevispin]

Mikepara,

The hat in your pic - if it were black it would strongly resemble a catholic priest's hat from the 19th century - very low crown and wide brim (sometimes curled-up on the sides). Pius X favored this type of hat.

m

 

[deanglen]

You are correct sir. The origin of fastening the brim up on the left side of the slouch was to prevent the brim from interfering with the rifle when carried "at the slope," or left shoulder arms.

As you can imagine, the wiiide brim of the hat in that last photo would have caught the rifle when the weapon has being "thrown" up to the shoulder, which is the actual term used in describing the movement in the manual!

Cheers!

Thanks, Baggers, I was only correct to a point, the command had nothing to do with the word "shift", as I recall now, "at the slope" is the one I remember. Note though, that few of the Span-Am war troops fastened the brim that way, but every Aussie I've ever seen does. Strange! The practical reason seems compelling for it. Did US troops "throw" their rifle up differently? I wonder. BTW a few more photos:

 

[scotrace]

Campaign Hat

The Civil War hat worn by President James Garfield during the war.

 

[deanglen]

Thank you, Scotrace. I see a hat like that and I think of questions, such as: What is it's size? Maker? How well preserved is it, and how was it preserved? What is the lining like, if any? And so on. The details fascinate me, and I wonder what it would look like on my head, if it fit. I'll bet it's small 7 or 6 7/8 probably. Again, thanks for posting the pic.

Dean

 

[scotrace]

It's funny how you meet new friends here and remember their interests. When I was there last week, I saw that hat, thought of your threads, and knew I needed to come back with a pic for you.

 

[deanglen]

It's funny how you meet new friends here and remember their interests. When I was there last week, I saw that hat, thought of your threads, and knew I needed to come back with a pic for you.

I think it's great to be considered a friend by someone you've never met! Thank You.

Dean

 

[scotrace]

And see the Rough Riders on film - hatted:

Rough Riders.

 

[deanglen]

And see the Rough Riders on film - hatted:

Rough Riders.

WONDERFUL! Thanks for reminding me, Scotrace. I found that site about two months ago and they make geat campaign hat studies in motion. Astounding to think of their vintage! There's one of some Michigan troops building a road, which looks frankly staged for the camera and one guy can't stop staring at the camera while the rest seem to cast curious glances while attempting to look busy.

Here's the homepage link for anyone else to make them easier to find:
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/sawhtml/sawhome.html