New York, New York...

[Sloan1874]

Happens to us all. My dad barely recognises the Glasgow that he knew as a young man. From the mid-80s onward, it was cleaned up - the soot that covered all the tenements was blasted off, revealing the lovely red sandstone buildings you see nowadays - but also massive areas flattened and redeveloped. Much of it deserved to go, but like anything, there's a strong element of baby with the bathwater.

 

[pipvh]

I lived in the East Village in the early 90s. Almost unbelievable now as I look back on it from rural Devon. That part of Manhattan was already gentrified when I last went back in 2006. Hard to believe CBGBs is gone.

An off-the-beaten-track suggestion: the Cloisters Museum (part of the MET) at the very tip of Manhattan is a special place, as is the old Italian neighbourhood immediately to the south.

For a deli (apparently the Stage and Reuben's are now closed) choose Katz's over The Carnegie. The Old Town Bar on E 18th is one of the classic writers' bars, and if you do accidentally find yourself in Midtown, PJ Clarke's on the East Side will do you a proper Martini. No matter what else you do, stay up very, very late.

 

[Sloan1874]

I like where you're going with the martini suggestion. Believe me, this is going to be a trip to burn the candle at both ends on.

 

[Seb Lucas]

Happens to us all. My dad barely recognises the Glasgow that he knew as a young man. From the mid-80s onward, it was cleaned up - the soot that covered all the tenements was blasted off, revealing the lovely red sandstone buildings you see nowadays - but also massive areas flattened and redeveloped. Much of it deserved to go, but like anything, there's a strong element of baby with the bathwater.

Yep, it goes on all over the world. The cute little Melbourne I grew up in has been bulldozed and built over. I don't recognize whole areas where I used to live. Cities have always been like this.

 

[Sloan1874]

What they did to CBGBs was interesting. It was, by all accounts, a toilet but a culturally important one. The fact that fashion labels have sought to colonise and claim reflected hip kudos off it (never works, though) is pretty awful, but I also have an issue with something like that being turned into a museum, it kind of misses the point of what the venue was all about: creating music that broke with the past completely.

 

[Peacoat]

Wow, what a lot of excellent recommendations. Sloan you had better stay for a month or so to do all of this!

 

[Edward]

What they did to CBGBs was interesting. It was, by all accounts, a toilet but a culturally important one. The fact that fashion labels have sought to colonise and claim reflected hip kudos off it (never works, though) is pretty awful, but I also have an issue with something like that being turned into a museum, it kind of misses the point of what the venue was all about: creating music that broke with the past completely.

It was cruel how they forced Hilly out. There's been talk of a new cbgbs in Vegas, but it could never be the same.

Is Max's Kansas City still around?

 

[Sloan1874]

Not sure. I was reading an article about Warhol in a 1985 copy of the New York magazine, just after he'd died. In it, they said that Andy never went to Max's after he was shot in 1968, two years before The Velvets recorded their live album there in 1970.

 

[pipvh]

Yeah, CBGBs was a tiny sweat-box but the energy... I'm weirdly proud of the fact that there was a patch of sidewalk just outside stained with my blood - it was there for years. I used to pass the site of Max's every day on my way to and from work. I think it's a Walgreen's now.

 

[Peacoat]

Yeah, CBGBs was a tiny sweat-box but the energy... I'm weirdly proud of the fact that there was a patch of sidewalk just outside stained with my blood - it was there for years. I used to pass the site of Max's every day on my way to and from work. I think it's a Walgreen's now.

Sounds like a story is there. Brave enough to share?

 

[pipvh]

Funnily enough, it's a leather jacket story. I'd stopped in to the CBGBs bar next door with a couple of friends in the very small hours, because you used to be able to get a cheap (and nasty) slice of pizza there. We were on our way home from Milano's. There was a gang of skinheads hanging around the door - on our way out, I heard one of them say, 'hey, that's the guy who stole your leather jacket!" We were walking away, just past the door to CBGBs proper, when (so my friends later told me) they started thowing bottles at me. One must have got me right on the back of the noggin. I woke up to someone kicking me in the face with a pair of DMs (funny what you notice). Then someone else hollered 'oh, right, that's not your jacket!' The guy backed off for a moment, my friends threw me into a passing taxi. Whiskey first aid followed. I got away with a broken nose and a blood-dyed jacket. I think the thing I remember most was a sense of concussed, irony-rich amusement that the blokes who were kicking me, all Lower East Side kids, were wearing Union Jacks on their MA1s...

 

[Sloan1874]

Skinheads, so hot-headed. I hope they apologised after realising their faux pas.

 

[yakima]

Someone mentioned the Guggenheim. I'll second that. Wrong side of Midtown if you are mainly down in the village, but well worth a visit

 

[tropicalbob]

It was cruel how they forced Hilly out. There's been talk of a new cbgbs in Vegas, but it could never be the same.

Is Max's Kansas City still around?

CBGB's in Vegas? Oh, no. I wonder if they'll replicate the smell of dog crap and cat piss that greeted you at the door.

 

[Sloan1874]

You put your finger on something there. It's like the Edinburgh Venue, a legendary joint which saw so many bands who went on to great things - not least Nirvana on their first European tour - but was eventually shut down, prompting much wailing at it's loss. Much as I loved to see bands there, it was horrific: it stank - stale smoke, stale clothes, stale beer - the floor was so dirty it sucked at your feet, and the sound system was so overpowered for the space that buying a ticket for a gig meant you'd resigned yourself to two days of tinnitus after.

 

[Edward]

I still have a slight ring in my ears which I date back to, I think, Therapy / Ash / Joyrider in the Ulster Hall in 1995. It's a lovely, clean venue, though...

The most fun venue I've yet to be in personally is the Mao Livehouse in Beijing. By all accounts it's the Chinese CBs. Doesn't smell so bad, but heslth and safety is limited to "if there's a fire, we'll all die."

 

[breezer]

forgot to mention Graham Fowler - 138 W 10st - never been but I'm sure he carries some good stuff.

 

[TREEMAN]

I lived in the East Village in the early 90s. Almost unbelievable now as I look back on it from rural Devon. That part of Manhattan was already gentrified when I last went back in 2006. Hard to believe CBGBs is gone.

An off-the-beaten-track suggestion: the Cloisters Museum (part of the MET) at the very tip of Manhattan is a special place, as is the old Italian neighbourhood immediately to the south.

For a deli (apparently the Stage and Reuben's are now closed) choose Katz's over The Carnegie. The Old Town Bar on E 18th is one of the classic writers' bars, and if you do accidentally find yourself in Midtown, PJ Clarke's on the East Side will do you a proper Martini. No matter what else you do, stay up very, very late.

What old Italian neighborhood are you talking about ?

 

[pipvh]

What old Italian neighborhood are you talking about ?

You know, I'm thinking of Washington Heights, which wasn't/isn't Italian at all, right? Some friends lived there and I remember it having a really nice Old World feel and a couple of extremely good Italian delis and bakeries, which must have coloured my impression of the place. Guess I'm more food-centric than I thought!

 

[Sir Jacket]

I was born in NYC in the 70s. Oddly been back only once and found most of Manhattan resembled a Prada store. But it's still flippin' great.