New Schott 618 Horsehide!!! Questions....

[adiadi]

Does it seem that delicate all over or just in certain places? What did Schott have to say about it? Particular model? Can you elaborate...

It's delicate all over, there are some areas that feel a bit more robust but over all it's a softy. Have a look at this thread of the email that I received from them.
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/thre...g-first-a-2-leather.85516/page-2#post-2078188

Over all it's a fashion jacket and not a riding jacket. I have seen their cow hide 141 and it's way better quality and thickness. I guess they have entered the HH market out of sheer demand. If want a real manly jacket, nothing beats Lostwrolds. Schott's is commercial [Bartender Edit: Expletive Deleted. By all means, let's see objective critical reviews of any brand's products, but try and keep it constructive rather than crude, please.]

 

[Monitor]

1. They haven't entered HH market, they have started with horsehide.
2. The HH they are using is of the same weight and thickness as what most other makers are using, except for LW.
3. The HH Schott and most other makers are using today is considerably heavier than most HH's used during the past, which was regularly below 3oz in weight.
4. My Schott HH jacket is among the heaviest, sturdiest jackets I've had or handled.

Another thing about LW - there's nothing special about their super heavy hide. It doesn't have magical properties and their super heavy horsehide it isn't something only LW is exclusively capable of. It's just a story they're trying to sell. Same as anyone else. But the fact remains that anyone, and I do mean ANY maker could just be making jackets out of 8oz belt grade stuff - Aero could today declare they're from now on only making leather jackets out of 10oz leather so where would that leave LW? So there's a perfectly valid reason makers go for 3oz instead. It's the reason Langlitz got rid of their heavyweight stuff. If you find 3oz leather flimsy that's fine but you're wrong to call Schott stuff commercial and fashion 'cause then you might as well throw in just about literally every other maker of vintage-y leather jackets.

 

[Phillips88]

I know what you mean, Phillips; I've been thinking about the same thing.

From my experience with vintage motorcycle leather jackets, Schott steer is much closer to how they used to do it in the past. These old hides were often made with a really thick, heavy, waterproof top coat and I've rarely seen an old US made leather jacket done in naked leather. German motorcycle jackets are on the other hand mostly made from unfinished leather though I guess the reason for that was German tendency to use extremely heavy hides which if heavily coated would literally become unwearable. Anyhow, I think the main reason why Gail says nothing should be used on Naked cow is to protect the company and not your jacket. For the right reason, too - People get all sorts of idiotic ideas. I've seen tons of perfectly fine jackets being ruined because people would use all sorts of crap on them, thinking it's the right thing to do. Like lard. It's one of those very popular leather conditioner suggestion that's been passed on from generations. So anyway, while it may be the kind of abuse that a heavily coated jacket might take, Schott Naked cowhide really does seem to soak up whatever you put on it and even though it's an extremely durable hide, having it stuffed with random crap is never a good idea. For starters, it stains. It can get moldy. It might start reeking. Whatever. So I reckon if someone's jacket simply got stained so easily, of course they'd blame it on Schott, arguing that they have been using the exact same thing on their other leather jackets for years with no ill effect, while Schott instantly got ruined.

Using an actual leather conditioner on naked cow is perfectly okay. I mean, just look at the list of chemicals that were used during the tanning process in which the hide has been soaked up for months. I don't think there's anything you could come up with for a home-made conditioner that comes close. I tried and tested Pecard on a Schott Naked cow and it only did it good. Darkened it a little bit, for a little while, but that was it.

I agree 100% Monitor

Not disputing anything that Schott or Gail/Jerri might be saying but iv always thought that putting NOTHING on their naked cowhide was just to protect them and the company. I could only image the crap that Gail has had to put up with and sort out over the years from idiotic people doing all kinds of stupid stuff with their perfectly fine leather jackets before they messes them up, just cause they read it on the internet or thought it was a good idea.

I'm sure a well maintained naked cowhide will last for years if properly cared for! Iv used that all natural Otterwax that Gail now recommends that on their site. It seems to do okay but the "Leather Salve" that's in the kit is a bit of a mess to apply. Its basicly what it says it is, all natural carnauba/shea butter. It might be okay but its like trying to apply apple sause to leather lol. Now it does come with a leather oil that has all natural vitamin E in it, I love it, it seems to be great and puts a minor shine to the naked cowhide.

my thoughts would be if someone used a good conditioner (Mink's oil, Pecard,) with possible that leather oil occationaly when needed.....a good naked cowhide COULD last even longer that a Schott steerhide? Who knows...Like you said, only time will tell.

Honestly iv never used Pecard, You like it??

 

[Phillips88]

1. They haven't entered HH market, they have started with horsehide.
2. The HH they are using is of the same weight and thickness as what most other makers are using, except for LW.
3. The HH Schott and most other makers are using today is considerably heavier than most HH's used during the past, which were regularly below 3oz in weight.
4. My Schott HH jacket is among the heaviest, sturdiest jackets I've had or handled.

Another thing about LW - there's nothing special about their super heavy hide. It doesn't have magical properties and LW it isn't something only LW is exclusively capable of. It's just a story they're trying to sell. Anyone, ANY maker could just be making jackets out of 8oz belt grade stuff - Aero could today declare they're from now on pmčy making leather jackets out of 10oz leather so where would that leave LW? So there's a perfectly valid reason makers go for 3oz instead. It's the reason Langlitz got rid of their heavyweight stuff. If you find 3oz leather flimsy that's fine but you're wrong to call Schott stuff commercial and fashion 'cause then you might as well throw in just about literally every other maker of vintage-y leather jackets.

+++++1 WHAT THIS MAN SAID!

 

[Harris HTM]

I guess they have entered the HH market out of sheer deman

Schott has been using HH for more than a century.

 

[TREEMAN]

I find it interesting that owners of Schott HH jackets have very different opinions of the horsehide itself. Some say it's thick and sturdy some say it's thin and flimsy and fashion jacket like. Seems like it's a hit or miss situation. Schott claims the HH is 3-3.5 oz. IMO they should make it all 3.5 oz. period. Some of there " heavy weight " jackets in cowhide and horse definitely feel like there LESS than 3 oz. Never heard of anyone complaining it was too thick either.

 

[Monitor]

I find it interesting that owners of Schott HH jackets have very different opinions of the horsehide itself. Some say it's thick and sturdy some say it's thin and flimsy and fashion jacket like. Seems like it's a hit or miss situation. Schott claims the HH is 3-3.5 oz. IMO they should make it all 3.5 oz. period. Some of there " heavy weight " jackets in cowhide and horse definitely feel like there LESS than 3 oz. Never heard of anyone complaining it was too thick either.

Same has been said for Aero CXL HH by some people who have gotten CXL Steer. There's an entire thread on some other forum about how Shinki is flimsy thin and a fashion hide. Cowhide jackets are somewhat heavier and thicker by default and I guess people like to exaggerate and not know what they're talking about. In general.

 

[TREEMAN]

1. They haven't entered HH market, they have started with horsehide.
2. The HH they are using is of the same weight and thickness as what most other makers are using, except for LW.
3. The HH Schott and most other makers are using today is considerably heavier than most HH's used during the past, which was regularly below 3oz in weight.
4. My Schott HH jacket is among the heaviest, sturdiest jackets I've had or handled.

Another thing about LW - there's nothing special about their super heavy hide. It doesn't have magical properties and their super heavy horsehide it isn't something only LW is exclusively capable of. It's just a story they're trying to sell. Same as anyone else. But the fact remains that anyone, and I do mean ANY maker could just be making jackets out of 8oz belt grade stuff - Aero could today declare they're from now on only making leather jackets out of 10oz leather so where would that leave LW? So there's a perfectly valid reason makers go for 3oz instead. It's the reason Langlitz got rid of their heavyweight stuff. If you find 3oz leather flimsy that's fine but you're wrong to call Schott stuff commercial and fashion 'cause then you might as well throw in just about literally every other maker of vintage-y leather jackets.

LW's jackets don't appeal to me no matter how thick the HH is.............I think Schott makes the best looking asymmetrical MC jacket around....just wish ( and maybe i'm wrong ) it was a little thicker.

 

[adiadi]

I find it interesting that owners of Schott HH jackets have very different opinions of the horsehide itself. Some say it's thick and sturdy some say it's thin and flimsy and fashion jacket like. Seems like it's a hit or miss situation. Schott claims the HH is 3-3.5 oz. IMO they should make it all 3.5 oz. period. Some of there " heavy weight " jackets in cowhide and horse definitely feel like there LESS than 3 oz. Never heard of anyone complaining it was too thick either.

I probably got a lemon, it's not even 2oz in some sections of the jacket. Hence I have such a poor opinion of the Schott 618HH. I have tried their 141 CLASSIC RACER and it's a beautiful hide. Each to their own.

 

[adiadi]

LW's jackets don't appeal to me no matter how thick the HH is.............I think Schott makes the best looking asymmetrical MC jacket around....just wish ( and maybe i'm wrong ) it was a little thicker.

I like LW because I ride a cruiser, and it gives you a feeling of protection that other jackets don't offer. Plus I like their workmanship and hide quality.

 

[TREEMAN]

I ride a Softail......I wear a Vanson model B.........and i'm feeling real good about it!!!

 

[adiadi]

I ride a Softail......I wear a Vanson model B.........and i'm feeling real good about it!!!

I am considering the Octagon Modle B. I have heard great things about Vanson.

 

[Monitor]

I am considering the Octagon Modle B. I have heard great things about Vanson.

You'll love it. Their jackets take years to break in. My Model B was too small for me and you'd expect it to get broken in quicker but nah... When I compared the photos of it from when I bought it, the jacket looked the same.

 

[Carlos840]

Same has been said for Aero CXL HH by some people who have gotten CXL Steer. There's an entire thread on some other forum about how Shinki is flimsy thin and a fashion hide. Cowhide jackets are somewhat heavier and thicker by default and I guess people like to exaggerate and not know what they're talking about. In general.

It's all relative! Like you said a lot of people complain about CXL HH being like cardboard, after breaking in my AL Warhawk cafe racer the CXL HH felt like a pliable fashion jacket to me...
I'm sure a super heavy lost world jacket would make either feel thin and flimsy.
It really depends what thickness someone is used too.

 

[ton312]

It's all relative! Like you said a lot of people complain about CXL HH being like cardboard, after breaking in my AL Warhawk cafe racer the CXL HH felt like a pliable fashion jacket to me...
I'm sure a super heavy lost world jacket would make either feel thin and flimsy.
It really depends what thickness someone is used too.

I agree the Warhawk I've got feels like it'll never crease, even at the sleeve while my CXL jacket picked those creases up quickly and retained them. I find that uniformity is key. I don't like noticeably thinner/thicker panels. I once had an AMF CR that had one sleeve that had to 6oz leather, while the rest was probably 2oz. It was like being the winter soldier.

 

[Carlos840]

I agree the Warhawk I've got feels like it'll never crease, even at the sleeve while my CXL jacket picked those creases up quickly and retained them. I find that uniformity is key. I don't like noticeably thinner/thicker panels. I once had an AMF CR that had one sleeve that had to 6oz leather, while the rest was probably 2oz. It was like being the winter soldier.

Give it some time! Mine is one of my favourite jackets, once the brown undercoat starts coming through at the edges it looks awesome!
Also it really feels like armour, and i like that...

 

[Phillips88]

I'm gonna post some pics of my 618hh later today when I get home from work....I'm REALLY starting to love how its breaking in. Iv just kept wearing it saying to myself "good things will come to those who wait and are patient" and that is very true. I'm SO glad I didn't turn my back on it in the first few day!

Just a little teaser to till later....

 

[Edward]

I find it interesting that owners of Schott HH jackets have very different opinions of the horsehide itself. Some say it's thick and sturdy some say it's thin and flimsy and fashion jacket like. Seems like it's a hit or miss situation. Schott claims the HH is 3-3.5 oz. IMO they should make it all 3.5 oz. period. Some of there " heavy weight " jackets in cowhide and horse definitely feel like there LESS than 3 oz. Never heard of anyone complaining it was too thick either.

It doesn't really surprise me that you'd get different opinions from different owners - I doubt they're all coming from the same place with an objective standard as to what is thick / thin / too heavy / too light. Undoubtedly, though, there will be a variation in the Schott hides. This will happen for any leather jacket maker over time what with leather being an organic material and no two animal ever being quite identical. That said, I'd expect it to vary a little more obviously with Schott, given that they are mass producers. The sheer volume of jackets they put out in any one year will dwarf the production totals from smaller, niche companies, meaning inevitably more instances of variation. It's not like denim where you can weave to a guranteed weight, after all. The tanned hide you get is the core of the jacket.

 

[sweetfights]

well

Merely on an aesthetic level, I prefer Schott HH and by far. It may look vinyl-ish when new and the naked cow is a very nice, natural looking leather but once the HH gets broken in, only CXL can equal it in grain, texture, shine, creasing, etc., etc. You'll see what I'm talking about. It's not that Schott cow is in any way worse but they're just completely different hides and Schott HH will age exactly like the old, vintage jackets you see floating about eBay. People rarely get there, sadly. There doesn't seem to be a single photo of one that's actually several years old. I guess people that are active online first start out by buying Schott, then they stumble upon forums where others convince them some other brand is so much infinitely better, and they pass the jacket on to someone else who's just gonna wear it without thinking about it much. Sadly, this means they probably won't bother with sharing the photos of their jackets or nothing. . . But yeah, they're two completely different things. Luckily, your other Schott is a completely different style so there won't be any competition between the two but I think if they were both Perfectos, with time you would switch to 618HH.

It's a very nice jacket. Any way you look at it.


I've had these from tons of manufacturers and Aero's is also fantastic. This particular one, the one in the photos in the product description belonged to me. I exchanged it 'cause of the size.
https://www.thurston-bros.com/products/aero-motorcycle-jacket

Well said Monitor!!

 

[sweetfights]

Agr

It's delicate all over, there are some areas that feel a bit more robust but over all it's a softy. Have a look at this thread of the email that I received from them.
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/thre...g-first-a-2-leather.85516/page-2#post-2078188

Over all it's a fashion jacket and not a riding jacket. I have seen their cow hide 141 and it's way better quality and thickness. I guess they have entered the HH market out of sheer demand. If want a real manly jacket, nothing beats Lostwrolds. Schott's is commercial [Bartender Edit: Expletive Deleted. By all means, let's see objective critical reviews of any brand's products, but try and keep it constructive rather than crude, please.]

Ageed on the LW's Crap- the LW stuff is top notch !!