New "inexpensive" A2 aero/billkelso or other sugestions ?

[JulianPascal]

Hello,
I'm thinking of to buy a A2.
Because i'm a student ,I've only a restricted budget.
So i am searching for an nice heavy horse hide A2 ,which is not to expensive.
There are two ones which seam intresting in consideration of this.

The first one is the Aero "Real Deal" 42-15142-P Type A-2:
http://www.aeroleatherclothing.com/webapp/aeroleather/servlet/AeroViewPage?page=displayproduct&subcatid=99&prodid=519

The second one is the A2 made by Bill Kelso:
http://www.billkelsomfg.com/site/ourjacket.php

thank you a lot !
Julian

 

[apba1166]

If you want to spend less, I have a number of A2s and find two of my "inexpensive" ones are the ones I like best: One was a Sears Leather Shop, bought second-hand, from way back, great jacket, tough, looks good, ages well, and while not perfectly authentic, features strong deep pockets which I like. These jackets were made to last. The other is from Excelled, medium weight horse, a HH jacket that can be had for a lot less money if you find one.

 

[gyrobroyeur]

Never see a Bill kelso, but it doesn't seems bad.
Anyway, for this range of price (that I don't consider like inexpensive) I'll go for an aero. You are sure to buy well made craftmanship, in case of problem, there is a very good after selling service, and you know that if you want to sell it one day, you will sell it 200/270 $.
Maybe a Bill Kelso too, but for the moment: nobody knows...

 

[Edward]

As has often been noted round these parts, Aero's A2s are less historically accurate than Eastman or GoodWear, but they are significantly cheaper. A lot depends on what you want.... if you're looking to put together an accurate uniform for living history / reenactment, then you'll quite likely never be happy if you compromise on the details. However, if what you want is a close-as, period-style A2 jacket to wear in a civilian context (there was, of course, already a cottage industry for A2 type jackets in the early forties, and you can bet your life back then they didn't agonise over whether each tiny detail matched exactly a specific contract), the Aero would be absolutely grand. I am quite taken too with the look of the BarryLyndon ones on eBay, though by the time they're shipped they're closing in on the price of the Aero Real Deal which is a known quantity.

I'm not knocking accurate jackets by any means - were money less tight, I'd love a couple of John's GoodWear A2s as those are by far the most accurate replicas out there - it's just a matter of considering what you want it for. The Aero jackets can't be beaten on grounds of quality as an A2 style garment. For me wanting a civilian jacket, that's enough; a guy doing a USAAF impression might not be satisfied. Course, I also partly base my consideration on the fact that as a bald, middle aged guy I'm never going to look quite right dressed as a USAAF fighter pilot, no matter how accurate my jacket! Horses for courses, really.

Oh.... and, of cours,e check out eBay. I bought my Eastman A2 on there for about GBP190; a model which sells new for GBP400+. I've seen some good bargains on Aero and Eastman A2s both on there, if you're a little patient.

ETA: when you say "heavy horsehide"... what exactly are you meaning? A2s were made from a relatively light, medium weight horse, not the armour-like FQHH that Aero's civilian jackets can come in. Do you mean by comparison to the lambskin common in cheaper leather jackets that is so thin you could spit through it?

 

[JulianPascal]

Do you mean by comparison to the lambskin common in cheaper leather jackets that is so thin you could spit through it?

Yes ,that's what i ment ,heavy enoght to stand rough wear ,but it dont have to bee like "bullet prooft".
I don't have anything to compare withe because i had nerver a jacked made by Horsehide.

Historical accuracy is secondary ,first of all i want a good loocking ,well made ,durabel jacked and i like old A-2 verry much ,but i like the modern styled A-2 much lesser.

 

[Edward]

Yes ,that's what i ment ,heavy enoght to stand rough wear ,but it dont have to bee like "bullet prooft".
I don't have anything to compare withe because i had nerver a jacked made by Horsehide.

Historical accuracy is secondary ,first of all i want a good loocking ,well made ,durabel jacked and i like old A-2 verry much ,but i like the modern styled A-2 much lesser.

Sounds like the Aero would be a good choice for you if you want to buy new, then. I hear good thing about gibson & Barnes and others in the US, though of course you're into much higher shipping there, plus import taxes (not an issue within the EU). That sort of extra expenditure soon mounts up. I'd keep checking eBay, though, if you're not in a rush; a used Aero or Eastman A2 will usually sell for GBP200-250, a saving over the new price not to be sniffed at. What size are you looking for? 38 and 40 seem to show up most often in good, used condition, but I've seen all sizes, really.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

^^ Another thought is checking Aero's website for their "sale" jackets. I believe those jackets are new but sell at about 100GBP less than a newly custom made jacket. They're on sale because a customer returned them as being out of spec ... but if they fit you, you get a brand new jacket for a 100GBP discount.

 

[aswatland]

The Aero Real Deal is good value at £350. There are currently no bargain or sale jackets available at this price.

http://www.aeroleatherclothing.com/...ge?page=displayproduct&subcatid=99&prodid=519

 

[JulianPascal]

The size is the circumference of the chest in inch,right ?
The "Real deal" is what i thought about or maybe the USAAF Type A-2, Seal Brown Horsehide.

 

[gyrobroyeur]

I don't have any aero (but I used to). One thing important to buy it new, and not on the bay, is that you can give them your mensuration, and they deduct your on the rack size, or they made a custom jacket.
If you never have any A2, it's a very important point cause the A2 type sizing is very touchy: a little bit too big looks immediatly too big, a little bit to small, it's unwearable... The size are they repro sizes, or modern sizes?
Example for me an ELC RW 27752 size 40: one size over the perfect jacket, GW werber size 42: just fell nice... ELC used to oversize there jacket but after 199?, they don't, etc ...

 

[WolfeMan]

From what ive read about them, aero seems the way to go. If historical accuracy is not important, aero does custom orders, so you can add those little details you would like it to have.
Wolfe

 

[Edward]

I don't have any aero (but I used to). One thing important to buy it new, and not on the bay, is that you can give them your mensuration, and they deduct your on the rack size, or they made a custom jacket.
If you never have any A2, it's a very important point cause the A2 type sizing is very touchy: a little bit too big looks immediatly too big, a little bit to small, it's unwearable... The size are they repro sizes, or modern sizes?
Example for me an ELC RW 27752 size 40: one size over the perfect jacket, GW werber size 42: just fell nice... ELC used to oversize there jacket but after 199?, they don't, etc ...

My experience is that I can get a great fit with a 42 from ELC or Aero, but for something true to the original 30s/40s patterns I'd have to go up to a 44. Both will be the samed size / cut, just a different notion of how much extra space to allow, really. I find the same with suits. It's not a belly thing, but rather back in the day they used to allow on average 44" in a jacket round thechest at armpit height, while now it's more 45.5-46".

The Aero Real Deal is good value at £350. There are currently no bargain or sale jackets available at this price.

http://www.aeroleatherclothing.com/...ge?page=displayproduct&subcatid=99&prodid=519

Jings, aye, that one went up too... used to be an even GBP300. I remember they also used to have the CBI Field Modified model, identical to the Real Deal save that the top layer of the collar was mouton rather than leather. Nice option, they used to be GBP255, but not sure what the post-price increase has them at.

ETA: The CBI Field Modified model is now GBP300.

 

[Edward]

Looking at prices, the Bill Kelso is coming in about thirty Euros or so below the price of the Aero Real Deal, once you add postage. I'm hoping someone on the Lounge does buy one, as it's one of the jackets I'd love to see a full review of - that and the one on eBay from seller Barry Lyndon, which I think came in at around the same price as the Bill Kelso. As the top end repros begin to slip out of my reach, price-wise, it's encouraging to see the emergence of new players in this mid price market.

 

[blethook]

I like my Aero Anniversary A-2...

A lot!

Not necessarily the most authentic repro but very comfortable & very nice hide (midweight seal brown jerky horsehide). You can see the reddish tone underneath the seal brown... The hide of the back panel (not shown) is really jerky

Here's a couple of pictures:

 

[Edward]

Here's the other option I mentioned on eBay - Spearhead Militia. Seems to be based in Singapore, or at least that's where the items are shipped from. He seems mostly to specialise in repros of Third Reich stuff, though has recently branched into others. Page here of his leather offerings, which include A1 and A2 styles:

http://stores.ebay.ca/Spearhead-Mil...Z7QQ_sidZ146084432QQ_trksidZp4634Q2ec0Q2em322

 

[Dave E]

Those Spearheads look interesting, I wonder what the quality is like?

 

[Edward]

We know about this seller,
his jackets do not have the right collar hook and eye (see pic below)

http://www10.tx8.cn/photo/piecemark/aj92003.jpg

http://www10.tx8.cn/photo/piecemark/aj93003.jpg

Also, he says the leather used in the jackets has 1.6 mm thickness, too thick, if you consider that everybody else (ELC, RMNZ etc) use between 0.9 - 1.2 mm (the 1.2 mm being already too think)

Are these the Spearhead jackets to which you refer?

There was a thread about these a few weeks ago when they first cropped up on the bay. The general consensus was that they weren't the most accurate, but actually (at least visibly) a pretty good representation of an early pre-war A2. Can't remember the specific one Andrew and the boys mentioned (a Doniger, maybe?), but I know it was thought to be closer to that than the Monarch, despite being labelled as the latter. The leather thickness wouldn't worry me so much, but again when you're looking a good jacket at a cheaper price than the top flight stuff, you inevitably have to compromise on some details. Within reason (Aero's FQHH is never going to look quite 'right' if you're looking to create a period-looking A2), leather thickness wouldn't particularly concern me (a little extra durability isn't a bad thing, anyhow), but of course we all have different requirements, so your mileage may vary on that one.

 

[JulianPascal]

Here's the other option I mentioned on eBay - Spearhead Militia. Seems to be based in Singapore, or at least that's where the items are shipped from. He seems mostly to specialise in repros of Third Reich stuff, though has recently branched into others. Page here of his leather offerings, which include A1 and A2 styles:

http://stores.ebay.ca/Spearhead-Mil...Z7QQ_sidZ146084432QQ_trksidZp4634Q2ec0Q2em322

The color of that one is nice ,but the Pockets seem to be far to big:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/USAAF-Type-A-2-Seal-Brown-Horsehide-Monarch-MFG-Co-46-/400109690945?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d28656041

That one is more interresting:
http://cgi.ebay.ca/USAAF-Type-A-2-Light-Seal-Brown-Horsehide-Monarch-Co-40-/400123404231?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d29369fc7
The pockets are nice placed almost more at the sides than in front ,but they seem to be even a bit bigger than the pockets of the aero real deal e.g., or do i err ?[huh]

By the way ,does anybody own one of them ?
And has anybody already ordered one of the Bill Kelso ?

 

[JulianPascal]

A lot!

Not necessarily the most authentic repro but very comfortable & very nice hide (midweight seal brown jerky horsehide). You can see the reddish tone underneath the seal brown... The hide of the back panel (not shown) is really jerky

Here's a couple of pictures:

Nice,
is the reddish undertone really so intensive ?
It don't seam to be on other pictures ,or does aero may varry the undertone in case wich collor of cuffing you chose ?

 

[aswatland]

Yes Edward there was a discussion about the Spearhead A2s. They are based on the Monarch, but stangely have a collar stand, inaccurate thoat latch, elongated box stitching on the epaulats, ring snaps (Monarchs had nipple snaps) and over-large pockets. They are cheapish but the leather is took thick IMO. Anyone bought one of these recently?