New "How to make a bow" TUTORIAL by FORTINO37

[TheDane]

You're welcome, my friend. It won't get you a lot of street-cred among hatters/seamstresses, but who cares? It's neither elegant nor fast, but it gets the job done - and the result will most often look nicer, when done with (our) inexperienced hands

 

[ManofKent]

Ole - that's a great idea, I rarely have a clue where the needle will end up.

 

[TheDane]

I know, Richard. Needles are like groundhogs in a lawn! I guess, this trick is to hobby-hatting, what croquet is to billiards: "If you can't hit the ball with a cue - use a fr*cking sledgehammer" lol

 

[T Jones]

Hey John Galt, here's a more close up look at the Tom Hardy Shark Gill bow. Looks like each overlapping "gill" was sewn down. In this one it looks like two gills were made on each end of the ribbon, one end tacked down first and then the other end wrapped around the hat and sewn down. It looks like another mock gill was then sewn on top of the ribbon overlapping the two ends in the middle to cover up the seam, if that makes sense...or, could each gill have been individually cut and each piece sewn on the ribbon? what do you think?....

 

[Brad Bowers]

I use the two-needle method and it works great. Not as sophisticated as what the ladies in the Trimming Room could do with a single thread, but it works.

Brad

 

[TheDane]

Thanks Brad. It always makes a confession easier, when you're not the sole sinner

 

[John Galt]

TJ,

It looks to me like just two "bows," one over the other, with cording on the middle one to create another faux "gill."

"Faint hat never won fair lady."

 

[T Jones]

TJ,

It looks to me like just two "bows," one over the other, with cording on the middle one to create another faux "gill."

"Faint hat never won fair lady."

Two bows? I noticed it looked different from your tutorial. How do you think this one was made?...and what's your best guess on the ribbon color?

 

[John Galt]

Whiskey (rusty) colored ribbon. I think this is about a 4-5 inch piece of ribbon folded and ironed, then sewn down. Then, I think another similar piece about 1+ inch shorter was laid over the top and vertical cording was added as seen in the photo before it was stitched down.

Imagine the pieces of paper are lengths of ribbon.

(Ignore the cording impression behind the top bow).

Get it?




"Faint hat never won fair lady."

 

[John Galt]

Here's a one piece hatband & bow with the backing TheDane mentioned above, taken from a 1940's Baxter during renovation.

"Faint hat never won fair lady."

 

[John Galt]

TJ, here's a similar style of bow from the recently bumped "Melton -- Art In Hats" thread. The example you posted has a greater size variance between the top & bottom ribbons, and a simulated "gill" instead of a middle knot, but I believe it was made in a very similar manner. It also looks as if the ends of the bows were tweaked a little with an iron to make them arch down a little, but that's a pure guess.

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showpost.php?p=797457


"Faint hat never won fair lady."

 

[TheDane]

and what's your best guess on the ribbon color?

"Terracotta", "Copper" or "Rust" - but much of the time color names seem more about marketing than actual description

 

[John Galt]

All right, here's the finished shark gill bow for my grey Stetson Nutria Quality conversion. I haven't tacked it down yet because I don't have the right color of thread.

"Faint hat never won fair lady."

 

[T Jones]

TJ, here's a similar style of bow from the recently bumped "Melton -- Art In Hats" thread. The example you posted has a greater size variance between the top & bottom ribbons, and a simulated "gill" instead of a middle knot, but I believe it was made in a very similar manner. It also looks as if the ends of the bows were tweaked a little with an iron to make them arch down a little, but that's a pure guess.

http://www.thefedoralounge.com/showpost.php?p=797457


"Faint hat never won fair lady."

Oh yeah. I see that. It looks really similar to the Tom Hardy hat. Looks like it would be fairly easy to make....Very nicely done on your shark gill bow btw....

 

[T Jones]

"Terracotta", "Copper" or "Rust" - but much of the time color names seem more about marketing than actual description

Would that color ribbon still be easy to get anywhere?

 

[TheDane]

TJ, here's a similar style of bow from the recently bumped "Melton -- Art In Hats" thread

That one is very different, John. The Melton-bow is a standard bow, that is not pleated or pinched in the centre - a box-bow. I wouldn't call that a gill-type.

 

[TheDane]

Would that color ribbon still be easy to get anywhere?

No ribbon is easy to come by. Close to none of the ribbon produced today is useable. It has to be made from cotton and rayon, but what is called rayon today is made from synthetic fibres and has very little resemblence with real rayon. The only company, I know of, that still produces the real stuff is Macuba. They don't sell to privates over the web, so you have to visit a store in Tokyo, New York, Paris or London - and you have to pay North of $20-30 per meter.

Unfortunately there's nothing of that color in the selection in the mail for you. It's a weak spot in my own collection, but I always have a heavy trigger-finger ready, when I see those more "exotic" colors. I love the range from copper or terra cotta over auburn and chestnut to bordeaux and burgundy, but they are not among the most common colors on the vintage market [huh]

 

[T Jones]

No ribbon is easy to come by. Close to none of the ribbon produced today is useable. It has to be made from cotton and rayon, but what is called rayon today is made from synthetic fibres and has very little resemblence with real rayon. The only company, I know of, that still produces the real stuff is Macuba. They don't sell to privates over the web, so you have to visit a store in Tokyo, New York, Paris or London - and you have to pay North of $20-30 per meter.

Unfortunately there's nothing of that color in the selection in the mail for you. It's a weak spot in my own collection, but I always have a heavy trigger-finger ready, when I see those more "exotic" colors. I love the range from copper or terra cotta over auburn and chestnut to bordeaux and burgundy, but they are not among the most common colors on the vintage market [huh]

Thanks buddy. It's a nice color. I wonder if it's possible to dye a ribbon that color?

 

[TheDane]

I wonder if it's possible to dye a ribbon that color?

Yes, in theory it's possible to dye a ribbon to any desired color. There are a couple of things you should be aware of, though.

Quality grosgrain ribbon has a beautiful sheen - and sometimes a slight hue-shift - when lit from the side. That is a result of two things:
*) The ribbed structure (ribs and grooves reflect the light differently)
*) Two different colors are used for the wrap and weft

In supplier-specs you sometimes see the term "yarn-dyed", indicating that the yarn was dyed prior to weaving. The color of the weft will shine through the warp, contributing considerable to the difference in light reflection caused by ribs and grooves in the weave pattern. The finished ribbon usually has a very beautiful and exclusive sheen.

If the ribbon is dyed after weaving, the ribbon will usually seem more "flat" - lacking some of the sheen of a yarn-dyed one. Cotton and rayon receive the dye differently and therefore the warp and weft will be dyed differently, but the result will rarely be as beautiful as yarn-dyed grosgrain.

If you want to dye ribbon, you can either over-dye or strip the existing color down, before dyeing. If you settle for tinting the ribbon with a slight over-dye, you usually end up with a more shiny result, than if you choose to strip and do a more solid dyeing. With a slight over-dye it's also easier to achieve a "dusty" hue, that is pleasing for a fedora ribbon.

The hard part is to predict the result. Partly to predict the effect of one color upon another, and partly to predict the result of how the cotton and the rayon will receive the dye. You can make 1" samples of different ribbon (maker and color) in different dyes, mixes and solutions. Then you can staple the results to cards with a precise record of procedure - along with similar non-dyed pieces. That way you'll build a helpful reference for a bit more qualified guessing.

All ribbon will fade and/or change color over time. Ribbon made in the 20s-50s was never intended to last 60-90 years, and the colors we find today are very often different from the colors, when the ribbon was made. How many decades a DIY dye will last, I can't tell, but an over-dyed ribbon will probably "degrade gracefully" compared to a stripped and dyed one.

You will be looking for "fibre reactive dye". Follow instructions, keep precise records and be prepared for a lot of testing

 

[John Galt]

That one is very different, John. The Melton-bow is a standard bow, that is not pleated or pinched in the centre - a box-bow. I wouldn't call that a gill-type.

You are of course correct. My post was sloppy. The two bows are actually quite different in appearance. My real point was that the Hardy bow was (I believe) made the same way, with overlapping layers - that the construction method was similar.


"Faint hat never won fair lady."