New Himel transcontinental railroad - what do you think, keep or return?

[LAman]

Sloan hit it on the head. Made-to-Measure is what most people think of (and is often referred to interchangeably) as "bespoke". There isn't a lot of true "bespoke" suit and jacket makers because bespoke eliminates any economies of scale. Each pattern is a completely custom one-off and that not efficient for a business. Superfluous sending the new design to Himel will result in a bespoke product because Himel will need to design a pattern for that from scratch. True bespoke tends to be extremely expensive. Made-to-Measure will give most people an almost bespoke fit, and is typically much less expensive (though usually more expensive than off-the-rack). The maker uses a bunch of set "base" patterns (sizes, build types, etc.) and then selects the closest pattern to your measurements and modifies (sometimes heavily) the pattern to provide a very customized fit. For 90% of people out there, the difference between a good made-to-measure product vs. bespoke isn't easily noticeable (if at all) and its not worth the price jump to bump up to bespoke. I've had business suits made both ways. Both came out well if the maker was good. But I have a very non-standard build and I finally bit the bullet and went bespoke for the suits. For me, their was a big difference, especially in regards to movement when wearing the suits. For the guys I work with (all pretty standard frames) it would have been a waste of money.

I've been reading this forum for awhile and have gotten an incredible education on leather jackets (styles, leather, etc.) from all of you guys (thank you!). I'm going to get a CR made and I looked at all of the makers that are talked about here and narrowed down to two locally that I could visit in person: Cal Leathers and Bates. Both can make great products. Cal Leathers is made-to-measure. Bates can do 100% bespoke if you can go there in person. Bates take a ton of measurements in-person and uses the measurements to build a cloth pattern. Then they have you return for a second fitting to fit and adjust the cloth pattern so it fits you perfectly standing or moving. The last step is to use the cloth pattern to make your actual jacket. They have a fantastic reputation for motorcycle race suits (even more complicated) because of their ability to do the bespoke process. I plan on ordering through Bates using this process within the next few weeks.

Didn't mean to go off-topic on this Himel thread but thought this might help differentiate made-to-measure vs. bespoke and what the value difference is (or isn't).

 

[handymike]

Is Bates in Southern CA?
Where?

 

[JMax]

Sloan hit it on the head. Made-to-Measure is what most people think of (and is often referred to interchangeably) as "bespoke". There isn't a lot of true "bespoke" suit and jacket makers because bespoke eliminates any economies of scale. Each pattern is a completely custom one-off and that not efficient for a business. Superfluous sending the new design to Himel will result in a bespoke product because Himel will need to design a pattern for that from scratch. True bespoke tends to be extremely expensive. Made-to-Measure will give most people an almost bespoke fit, and is typically much less expensive (though usually more expensive than off-the-rack). The maker uses a bunch of set "base" patterns (sizes, build types, etc.) and then selects the closest pattern to your measurements and modifies (sometimes heavily) the pattern to provide a very customized fit. For 90% of people out there, the difference between a good made-to-measure product vs. bespoke isn't easily noticeable (if at all) and its not worth the price jump to bump up to bespoke. I've had business suits made both ways. Both came out well if the maker was good. But I have a very non-standard build and I finally bit the bullet and went bespoke for the suits. For me, their was a big difference, especially in regards to movement when wearing the suits. For the guys I work with (all pretty standard frames) it would have been a waste of money.

I've been reading this forum for awhile and have gotten an incredible education on leather jackets (styles, leather, etc.) from all of you guys (thank you!). I'm going to get a CR made and I looked at all of the makers that are talked about here and narrowed down to two locally that I could visit in person: Cal Leathers and Bates. Both can make great products. Cal Leathers is made-to-measure. Bates can do 100% bespoke if you can go there in person. Bates take a ton of measurements in-person and uses the measurements to build a cloth pattern. Then they have you return for a second fitting to fit and adjust the cloth pattern so it fits you perfectly standing or moving. The last step is to use the cloth pattern to make your actual jacket. They have a fantastic reputation for motorcycle race suits (even more complicated) because of their ability to do the bespoke process. I plan on ordering through Bates using this process within the next few weeks.

Didn't mean to go off-topic on this Himel thread but thought this might help differentiate made-to-measure vs. bespoke and what the value difference is (or isn't).

Great, informative post. I was aware Bates provides that service but thought Cal also did. Good to know.

My earlier posts were not meant to demean the obviously amazing and skilled work provided by Himel. Not that anyone accused me of that but I just wanted to put it out there. If I move to a colder climate, I will have one or two Himel jackets for going out and about. Just that it’s not bespoke unless you walk in and go through a much more rigorous process than simply sending in dead-on-balls accurate measurements and having someone cut a new pattern. Whether that rigorous process is even necessary is another discussion.

 

[LAman]

Is Bates in Southern CA?
Where?

Bates is in Long Beach, just a little south of Los Angeles. They are small building literally next to the Long Beach Airport.

 

[Superfluous]

Good post LAMan, and great info re So Cal jacket options. I look forward to hearing about your experiences with Bates.

Is Bates in Southern CA?
Where?

Lakewood: https://www.batesleathers.com/

dead-on-balls accurate

I've heard the expression "dead-on" in relationship to accuracy, but the addition of "balls" elevates the colloquialism to a whole new level. Moreover, given the typical asymmetry, is that really a good analogy. Just sayin . . .

 

[JMax]

Haha, not accurate at all I guess. It is a quote from My Cousin Vinny. Your response is how Vinny should have countered his fiance’s argument. Ha.

 

[Jejupe]

there is one of these in size XL for sale on ebay. I might have pulled the trigger, but the seller won't ship outside of US. I reckon the measurements are taken from Himel's website and are not accurate at all. This jacket was done according to Orvis's sizing. With Orvis I wear XL and I'm 6'2", 260 lbs with 50" chest.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Himel-Brot...rentrq:df7259b71670ac3c132458a9fff6dc8e|iid:1

 

[Lebowski]

there is one of these in size XL for sale on ebay. I might have pulled the trigger, but the seller won't ship outside of US. I reckon the measurements are taken from Himel's website and are not accurate at all. This jacket was done according to Orvis's sizing. With Orvis I wear XL and I'm 6'2", 260 lbs with 50" chest.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Himel-Brothers-Orvis-Limited-Edition-Leather-Railroad-Jacket-SZ-XL/223293776815?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=fe9d1881a0d9400cab8531824b1305b2&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=223293776815&itm=223293776815&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:7659fa74-075a-11e9-a29b-74dbd1808edb|parentrq:df7259b71670ac3c132458a9fff6dc8e|iid:1

Yeah, that seller doesn't want to ship anywhere outside the US. Btw, measurements of other jackets from that seller don't look very accurate as far as I've just seen.
Though, some things look interesting.

 

[Boyo]

@Jejupe, I wouldn't mind acting as a proxy for you.. Have the jacket shipped to me in NY and I will forward on to you.. You can reimburse me for the additional shipping costs. I can mark the value lower on the customs docs also
Send me a PM if youre interested

 

[Jejupe]

Thanks to @Boyo I received now my second attempt to Himel Transcontinental. It wasn't XL after all, I think it is actually L, but I can't be sure as the size tag has been removed. Now this one is a bit too small for me at the moment. If I manage to lose some weight this could be some day ok for me. I am keeping it anyway for now, because returning is not an option.

 

[sweetfights]

Thanks to @Boyo I received now my second attempt to Himel Transcontinental. It wasn't XL after all, I think it is actually L, but I can't be sure as the size tag has been removed. Now this one is a bit too small for me at the moment. If I manage to lose some weight this could be some day ok for me. I am keeping it anyway for now, because returning is not an option.

That looks like a nice fit- per your usual standards of excellent jacket fit....

 

[jacketjunkie]

Looks great! Real shame if it's uncomfortable.

 

[Jejupe]

Looks great! Real shame if it's uncomfortable.

Oh no, its perfectly comfortable... as long as I don't feel a need to move or breath!

 

[ProteinNerd]

Oh no, its perfectly comfortable... as long as I don't feel a need to move or breath!

Hey, we all gotta make sacrifices for our leather jackets

 

[Dr H]

This reflects my experience with two Freewheelers Journeyman jackets, which are not dissimilar in style the Northlander.
Your smaller jacket fits you in a similar way to my 42 Journeyman. With a thin shirt, if I hadn’t had a heavy meal, if I didn’t inhale too deeply, I could convince myself that it fit. Realistically though, when would a coat of this kind ever be worn over just a thin shirt? If the weather is cool enough for one of these then it’s likely that you’ll still need at least a pullover or a waistcoat when you take it off.
I was really attached to my original Shinki HH Journeyman, but having upsized to a 44 (recently posted on here - black deerskin) I am now entirely comfortable (not at all baggy, simply well sized to allow a vest/shirt/jumper underneath without feeling like a Michelin man).
As much as you are attached to the Northlander, I’d advise selling it on; it’s not going to perform as you’ll want in cooler weather.
JMHO.

 

[beckster]

Ok I have one too. Mine is XL and I have a 45 inch chest and a sadly large belly. My tailor shortened the sleeves and put backer buttons on the front. One back half strap button popped off which was my fault. My tailor tacked the straps down and immobilized the adjustment. I wear it pretty much every time I leave the house.l think the size you have is too big looking at the back. This is my first nice jacket and I amazed at it’s weight.

 

[Dr H]

Ok I have one too. Mine is XL and I have a 45 inch chest and a sadly large belly. My tailor shortened the sleeves and put backer buttons on the front. One back half strap button popped off which was my fault. My tailor tacked the straps down and immobilized the adjustment. I wear it pretty much every time I leave the house.l think the size you have is too big looking at the back. This is my first nice jacket and I amazed at it’s weight.

Too big? Are you referring to the XXL in the original post on page 1? If so, I agree, but that cost is long gone. My comments refer to the replacement L in post #110, which is now too trim IMO. Personally, I’d advise selling and looking for an XL instead. They are out there, I passed on an XL a year or so ago on EBay.

 

[regius]

Anyone recently (i mean, in the last two years) try to order jackets from Bates? Would love to hear experience.

 

[beckster]

Too big? Are you referring to the XXL in the original post on page 1? If so, I agree, but that cost is long gone. My comments refer to the replacement L in post #110, which is now too trim IMO. Personally, I’d advise selling and looking for an XL instead. They are out there, I passed on an XL a year or so ago on EBay.

 

[beckster]

oops Here is my Orvis/Himel transcontinental story. I am a newbie and bought the jacket for $1500 in 2018. It immediately went on sale and Orvis gave me a $300 gift card. Front button ripped off and half belt button ripped off. Neck fit was funky. MY tailor who did the costumes for "Grumpy Old Men" tacked down the half belts and rolled the collar down and tacked it down as well. To address the ripped buttons he put backer buttons on the inside. I am 5'11" and about 215 lbs. with a pot belly. I have Pendleton wool shirt on which is my normal "foundation" garment. I wear the jacket open mostly and get compliments. I see a lot of old guys like me with way too large jackets on and I want to tell about the "lounge". Regards to all.