NEW Aero Board Racer and opinions needed...

[IXL]

...........

.... I bet you could have 10 people on this forum measure the same jacket and they'd all come up with a different result..........
.

I don't believe this for a second: I am of the firm opinion that any ten members of the forum, at least from this end of the bar, would come up with only seven different results. Eight, maybe. Anything over is just crazy talk........

 

[Superfluous]

I am the first to espouse that jackets should be made to agreed specifications; and, if a deviation from the agreed specifications results in an ill-fitting jacket, the customer is entitled to and should demand a remake. That said, if a deviation from agreed specifications results in a superior fitting jacket, it strikes me as rather inane to return the jacket and insist upon an inferior fitting jacket made to the agreed specifications. Thats the definition of cutting off one's nose to spite the face.

I recently received a jacket that was not as long as I specified. Many -- perhaps most -- would conclude that the jacket fit me great notwithstanding the deviation from the specified length -- in fact, many would conclude that additional length would result in a lessor fitting jacket. However, I personally prefer slightly longer jackets. Therefore, notwithstanding that the jacket fit me fine, I asked the manufacturer to remake the jacket longer. To his credit, the manufacturer readily agreed even though he believed that the additional length would result in a poorer fitting jacket. In other words, the manufacturer prioritized my specific preferences over his and/or the majority of jacket enthusiasts. This is the way it should be.

Needless to say, if one receives a jacket made to the agreed specifications, but the customer is nevertheless unhappy with the fit, that is an entirely different situation.

 

[AllanP]

AllanP, I'm curious: would you elect to keep a great-cutting knife that ended up fitting your hand, even though it was manufactured to the wrong specs?

It really depends, if the maker let me know in advance what the margin of error is, then my expectations will be adjusted accordingly, or if the maker advises me which specs would yield the best performance in advance.

To me, customization is about getting something personal, something unique that you had in your head that is different from an off the shelf product, and you do pay a hefty extra for the uniqueness to be fulfilled. It's a lot less about function when it is bespoke.

AllanP - that's an almost fundamentalist view of measurements which I understand, but for me the real world takes precedence. If I sent Aero those measurements and they got them wrong but the jacket fitted brilliantly (as it does here) I think sheer pragmatism would have me shrug, smile and say "what do I know?" The bigger picture is: does the jacket fit and look good? If the answer is "yes" - move on.

There's the distinct possibility that if the OP actually got the measurements he asked for the jacket would look too long. Where would he be then? Of course that's my view and the OP should do what he thinks is right.

I guess the question is that what's the point of asking for my measurements if they are going to be wrong. Isn't the whole point of customization fulfilling customer requests. Or else we'd just all be ordering off the shelf right.

I think a part of the customization process is about fulfilling certain expectations despite the fit. I don't think it's too much to ask bespoke maker who ASK their customers for very precise measurement requests to fulfil them. This isn't exactly customers nitpicking about measurements, Aero OFFERS the option of adjusting specs to certain part of the jacket, so the expectations is there for as precise as possible fulfillment.

Now if Makers let people know in advance the margin of error expected, then it's perfectly fine, with all hand made things it's impossible to get perfect I understand. I don't know if the OP knew what the margin of error was, so he has the right to be disappointed.

 

[Monitor]

Thanks for all you wrote, I do really appreciate the advice as well as the time it took to write your thoughts.

FYI, I did measure the jacket sleeves as per Aero since I have communicated with them MORE than a dozen times in the past when measuring my other jackets and getting this jacket custom fitted to my specs. They are VERY PRECISE when it comes to giving them measurements. For example, I was asked to give the following measurements:

Chest (exhaled - normal) wearing a T shirt
Chest (exhaled - normal) wearing a heavy sweater (heaviest sweater I would normally wear)
Chest (inhaled - expanded) wearing a T shirt
Chest (inhaled - expanded) wearing a heavy sweater (heaviest sweater I would normally wear)
Shoulders
Waist wearing pants with or without belt
Stomach

Like I said prior, I really do like the jacket fit in the body and the body length. ONLY concern was the sleeve length on my Ducati as my arms are more extended. On my Triump the arms seem ok as the arms are not as extended.

What I can say is the leather seems to be breaking in MUCH FASTER than I remember from CXL FQHH. I requested the THICKEST and HEAVIEST hide they had but from the weight and feel this jacket is definitely lighter than my black Cafe Racer in CXL Steerhide. From less than a week of normal wear, the leather seems to be more pliable and much softer than new. This is me trying to have it constantly on for around 6 - 8 hours a day for 5 days.

Please don't get me wrong, I wasn't implying that it was you who made a mistake. I'm just saying that the way we measure ourselves or the jacket might be different from how Aero or any other professional tailor would go about it. My point is that the jacket turned out for the best despite the disparity in the numbers.

Jacket length is tricky business. I find it that for some reason, Aero jacket with a 25" back on paper will always be too short for me while I have no problems with the Schott of the same length . No clue why but it undoubtedly has something to do with way Aero jackets are tailored. That was one pricey mistake I already made by insisting on a 25" back only to realize my mistake when the jacket arrived too short. Funny thing is, the first version of the same jacket which was a size larger, was also 25" long and it didn't look nearly as short on me.

That's why these numbers people often cling to don't really matter all that much and why it's best to just let the maker tell you what's good for you because for the most part, they're right. 99% of people who bought a jacket from Aero probably never gave it a second thought and their jackets fit them no worse than any of ours do.

The sleeve length also depends on how the jacket is cut. All Alpinestars or Dainese jackets that I've had were all around 25" in sleeve length and they's stay right at my wrists no matter what bike I sat on and how far out I extended my arms while sleeves on most Aero jacket would ride up, even at 27" or more. But Dainese are proper riding jackets. Despite being advertised as such, Aeros... well... aren't as much. They're made primarily as casual jackets that you can wear on the bike.

 

[Monitor]

I'm not sure if I agree with that. Measurements are different from fit. If I was given a exact measurement by a company I expect it to be fulfilled to the measurement regardless how it fits on me. I can understand sleeve measurement to be subjective and with error depending on how you measure, I don't understand how back length can be off. Numbers are not entirely subjective, or else why does maker ask for you to measure yourself all over.

Of course the back length can be off. Take any right motorcycle jacket - same kind the jacket ITT is based on - put it on you'll notice right away that the entire front is pulling forward. Compare it with whatever casual jacket of the same back length and you'll notice that despite the fact that the back length is the same on both jackets, one will appear considerably shorter than the other. Even tho it's not. So what good was your insistence on a specific number if the jacket ended up being off???

That's why the maker asks you to measure YOURSELF all over, so that they'd know exactly how their jackets would fit YOU. Good makers take all this into account because they have information that you simply cannot have any knowledge of.

And how could you? Either through trial and error and hundreds of $$$ you've lost on remakes, returns, etc. - or, you just listen to the maker who actually know how their clothes should fit you and trust them.

 

[Fonzie]

You're overthinking this. The jacket fits you perfect and looks amazing.
Letting go of the OCD thought patterns it's my humble advice.
Enjoy it.

 

[Butch_Coolidge]

You're overthinking this. The jacket fits you perfect and looks amazing.
Letting go of the OCD thought patterns it's my humble advice.
Enjoy it.

Agreed. Couldn't have said it better myself. It's a cool, bad ass leather jacket. You could have to wear a suit every day. Enjoy it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Edward]

Cracking looking jacket. All opinions are subjective, of course, but to my eye this is outstanding.

 

[holdemchamp1225]

I am the first to espouse that jackets should be made to agreed specifications; and, if a deviation from the agreed specifications results in an ill-fitting jacket, the customer is entitled to and should demand a remake. That said, if a deviation from agreed specifications results in a superior fitting jacket, it strikes me as rather inane to return the jacket and insist upon an inferior fitting jacket made to the agreed specifications. Thats the definition of cutting off one's nose to spite the face.

I recently received a jacket that was not as long as I specified. Many -- perhaps most -- would conclude that the jacket fit me great notwithstanding the deviation from the specified length -- in fact, many would conclude that additional length would result in a lessor fitting jacket. However, I personally prefer slightly longer jackets. Therefore, notwithstanding that the jacket fit me fine, I asked the manufacturer to remake the jacket longer. To his credit, the manufacturer readily agreed even though he believed that the additional length would result in a poorer fitting jacket. In other words, the manufacturer prioritized my specific preferences over his and/or the majority of jacket enthusiasts. This is the way it should be.

Needless to say, if one receives a jacket made to the agreed specifications, but the customer is nevertheless unhappy with the fit, that is an entirely different situation.

Agreed. In fact, Denny at Aero has already stated that they would remake the jacket to my specs or tweak it to my preferences without further issue. I was asked to wear and try the jacket on my bikes to see if it would work or not. That was what I did and I wanted to post photos as I was asked to post them once I received them from Aero.

All I can say is that most here, as stated by Craig, think the fit and sleeve length appear to be fine which I agree with for normal usage. I can also add that on a bike, the sleeves do ride up slightly leaving the wrists exposed. Wearing gloves does help but that is not the point of having a motorcycle jacket which is MEANT for riding. Most people here and the vast majority of the population who wear cycle-inspired jackets such as a Cafe Racer, Board Racer type, Perfecto, etc... NEVER even see a bike let alone be on one. There is a WORLD of difference between wearing a cycle jacket for casual usage and one that is worn on a bike. Take it from someone who has been riding and wearing cycle jackets for over 20 years.

 

[Seb Lucas]

I guess the question is that what's the point of asking for my measurements if they are going to be wrong. Isn't the whole point of customization fulfilling customer requests. Or else we'd just all be ordering off the shelf right.

Now if Makers let people know in advance the margin of error expected, then it's perfectly fine, with all hand made things it's impossible to get perfect I understand. I don't know if the OP knew what the margin of error was, so he has the right to be disappointed.

I understood you the first time. They got it wrong. He got a great jacket. Everyone wins.

 

[holdemchamp1225]

It really depends, if the maker let me know in advance what the margin of error is, then my expectations will be adjusted accordingly, or if the maker advises me which specs would yield the best performance in advance.

To me, customization is about getting something personal, something unique that you had in your head that is different from an off the shelf product, and you do pay a hefty extra for the uniqueness to be fulfilled. It's a lot less about function when it is bespoke.



I guess the question is that what's the point of asking for my measurements if they are going to be wrong. Isn't the whole point of customization fulfilling customer requests. Or else we'd just all be ordering off the shelf right.

I think a part of the customization process is about fulfilling certain expectations despite the fit. I don't think it's too much to ask bespoke maker who ASK their customers for very precise measurement requests to fulfil them. This isn't exactly customers nitpicking about measurements, Aero OFFERS the option of adjusting specs to certain part of the jacket, so the expectations is there for as precise as possible fulfillment.

Now if Makers let people know in advance the margin of error expected, then it's perfectly fine, with all hand made things it's impossible to get perfect I understand. I don't know if the OP knew what the margin of error was, so he has the right to be disappointed.

I do agree with the statement that BESPOKE is different from OTR, etc...

What I can say is that I own many bespoke items including over 50 bespoke suits from Kiton, Brioni, Tom Ford, Camps de Luca, Cifonelli, Cesare Attolini, and several bespoke Saville Row. NONE, I repeat NONE were made different from the specs given (of course their tailors did all the measurements). Maybe this is a bad comparison as these bespoke suit makers and tailor are considered "The best in the world" but it does give a point of reference. I do understand the margin of error and making a leather garment is a different process BUT that does not change the point of being BESPOKE as @AllanP stated above.

 

[holdemchamp1225]

Please don't get me wrong, I wasn't implying that it was you who made a mistake. I'm just saying that the way we measure ourselves or the jacket might be different from how Aero or any other professional tailor would go about it. My point is that the jacket turned out for the best despite the disparity in the numbers.

Jacket length is tricky business. I find it that for some reason, Aero jacket with a 25" back on paper will always be too short for me while I have no problems with the Schott of the same length . No clue why but it undoubtedly has something to do with way Aero jackets are tailored. That was one pricey mistake I already made by insisting on a 25" back only to realize my mistake when the jacket arrived too short. Funny thing is, the first version of the same jacket which was a size larger, was also 25" long and it didn't look nearly as short on me.

That's why these numbers people often cling to don't really matter all that much and why it's best to just let the maker tell you what's good for you because for the most part, they're right. 99% of people who bought a jacket from Aero probably never gave it a second thought and their jackets fit them no worse than any of ours do.

The sleeve length also depends on how the jacket is cut. All Alpinestars or Dainese jackets that I've had were all around 25" in sleeve length and they's stay right at my wrists no matter what bike I sat on and how far out I extended my arms while sleeves on most Aero jacket would ride up, even at 27" or more. But Dainese are proper riding jackets. Despite being advertised as such, Aeros... well... aren't as much. They're made primarily as casual jackets that you can wear on the bike.

Good point on Dainese. I do own a Dainese jacket and also a full body suit I had custom made. One of my close friends was a Yamaha team racer who has helped me alot with riding knowledge and also custom fitted suits.

If I were to do a cross-country ride or ride for an extended period of time I probably would wear a track suit or Dainese jacket but that is not what I am looking for. Aero jackets, especially the Board Racer / Cafe Racer style is a good combination of casual style that could be adapted to the bike, at least for me.

 

[holdemchamp1225]

Agreed. Couldn't have said it better myself. It's a cool, bad ass leather jacket. You could have to wear a suit every day. Enjoy it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks but see my post about BESPOKE items above. I did wear a suit for many years but happily no longer need to

 

[navetsea]

perhaps all you need is just a higher armhole, and a bit more room for your elbow, even with the same arm length we can have different upper vs lower arm length config, so if the curved part of the sleeve is not really ideal for your elbow position it won't function optimally when you bend your arm during riding, driving, etc.

 

[holdemchamp1225]

perhaps all you need is just a higher armhole, and a bit more room for your elbow, even with the same arm length we can have different upper vs lower arm length config, so if the curved part of the sleeve is not really ideal for your elbow position it won't function optimally when you bend your arm during riding, driving, etc.

Perhaps but no idea how to measure that or even how to change the configuration of the jacket. I am pretty sure Aero will not do that which I am fine with. I do not have a problem with the armholes, restricting movement or digging into the pit area.

I do appreciate the suggestion though.

 

[willyto]

I think where everyone gets everything wrong is in assuming that what most makers offer is a bespoke leather jacket when ordering online and giving the measurements. I'm sorry but it's not. If it was a bespoke jacket someone would measure yourself the proper way(Chest, stomach, waist, arms lenght, shoulders....), they would make the patterns entirely for you, the patterns would acount for any slopping shoulders you may have, your posture, riding position, standing position, they would cut the patterns matching your measurements, you would have one or two fittings, if necessary improvements would be made along the way...

In the end what the makers are doing is adapting their current patterns to better suit your needs but it's a long distance from Bespoke. It does have some of the advantages of it like choosing leather, hardware, stitching colour but it only goes so far. They obviously tweak their patterns but I believe only to a point.

 

[holdemchamp1225]

I think where everyone gets everything wrong is in assuming that what most makers offer is a bespoke leather jacket when ordering online and giving the measurements. I'm sorry but it's not. If it was a bespoke jacket someone would measure yourself the proper way(Chest, stomach, waist, arms lenght, shoulders....), they would make the patterns entirely for you, the patterns would acount for any slopping shoulders you may have, your posture, riding position, standing position, they would cut the patterns matching your measurements, you would have one or two fittings, if necessary improvements would be made along the way...

In the end what the makers are doing is adapting their current patterns to better suit your needs but it's a long distance from Bespoke. It does have some of the advantages of it like choosing leather, hardware, stitching colour but it only goes so far. They obviously tweak their patterns but I believe only to a point.

I agree with what you said about BESPOKE items and I think people use the term either too loosely or just wrongly. I would like to say that I NEVER stated that Aero or ANY of the other makers, including the highly tauted Himel, JC, etc...were bespoke of any kind.

People fail to realize how much a bespoke item actually costs in terms of labor, production time, etc...

 

[Edward]

I think where everyone gets everything wrong is in assuming that what most makers offer is a bespoke leather jacket when ordering online and giving the measurements. I'm sorry but it's not. If it was a bespoke jacket someone would measure yourself the proper way(Chest, stomach, waist, arms lenght, shoulders....), they would make the patterns entirely for you, the patterns would acount for any slopping shoulders you may have, your posture, riding position, standing position, they would cut the patterns matching your measurements, you would have one or two fittings, if necessary improvements would be made along the way...

In the end what the makers are doing is adapting their current patterns to better suit your needs but it's a long distance from Bespoke. It does have some of the advantages of it like choosing leather, hardware, stitching colour but it only goes so far. They obviously tweak their patterns but I believe only to a point.

Yip - what we see in the leather business is much more typically made to measure, or even made to order to the best-fit standard size. Of course, in an era when even an English court can't tell the difference between that and bespoke....

 

[Seb Lucas]

And of course some of us are not much concerned with bespoke as a concept. I have worn a suit perhaps a 5 times in 50 years, by choice. A bespoke suit is if no interest to me. But a made to measure leather jacket is and sounds like a fun thing to get.

 

[thor]

I once photo-copied a picture of the jacket I was ordering and wrote detailed measurements in various areas of the jacket photo so that it was nearly a builder's blueprint of the jacket I wanted and exactly where I was measuring from/to with precise start and end points on the jacket.
Totally OCD but it left no room for confusion or misinterpretation about how I was measuring sleeve length or armpit to armpit width or shoulder width. I have a somewhat difficult physique to nail down a proper fit (tall, somewhat V-shaped, long arms, etc) and I was tired of wasting money on jackets that weren't quite "right" for my size, shape and personal preference.
I e-mailed the "blueprint" to the manufacturer and I received THE best fitting jacket I've ever owned. Every measurement was exactly what I requested. Every option I noted on the photo, extra inside pocket (size and placement), leather and lining detailing, etc, was precisely executed.
Yes, I know, completely over-the-top but in the end I had my "ultimate" dream jacket.