Negative Reactions?

[Max Flash]

Nobody in any civilization has regarded lawyers as the bulwark against tyranny. The revision of this statement to be in praise[ of lawyers is something that only a lawyer could think up...

Actually, Geesie, look at what is happening in Pakistan right now. The lawyers are exactly that - the bulwark against tyranny. Oh course, you probably couldn't care less about what is happening in other countries beyond US borders, unless you are fighting a war there...

 

[Max Flash]

Just to continue on a theme, many of the great revolutionaries in history were lawyers. For example, Maximilien Robespierre and Georges Danton, the French Revolutionaries. Admittedly, the state that they created was not necessarily a utopia, but they were opposed to the tyranny of monarchy in France.

Perhaps, Geesie, if your knowledge of world history is a bit hazy, some US history might serve to reinforce my point. No less than 35 of those generally considered to be the Founding Fathers of the United States were lawyers, including Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, Alexander Hamilton and John Adams. You might recognise a few of those names - perhaps you don't think they stood as a "bulwark against tyranny"?

 

[Kermez]

Oh, no!

 

[Max Flash]

Sorry, Kermez. I felt I had to make a point. However, I was derailed from what was going to be my original reply, as follows:

Dressing well can never be wrong - it is just a sad fact of modern life that people wish to act as crabs in the bucket. As politicians are constantly telling us, we're all special so no-one is. For every time I read an article telling me that dressing well is popular again, and that suits are coming back, I read another that tells me that the suit, the neck-tie and other white collar workwear is dead forever.

Clothes are the great social divider. The person who chooses to wear tracksuits, football shirts and particular brands of leisurewear typically comes from a lower strata of society than the person who chooses to wear suits and ties, at least in the UK. Note my use of the word "chooses" - I am expressly excluding enforced workwear. In the context of workwear, the higher strata of society tend to wear more expensive suits, or concentrate on what I would loosely term 'accountrements': suspenders, fedoras, pocket squares. The lower class person will typically feel that he is entitled to comment on the other's attire, as a way of attempting to level the playing field between the two classes, whereas the higher class person will recognise that it is bad manners to make such comments.

This is a very simplistic explanation of the forces that I see at play, and is a view that is not particularly "PC". Especially in America, and increasingly in the UK, society likes to think of itself as classless. However, it is human nature to differentiate ourselves from others around us, based on education, job, dress-sense, hobbies and interests, etc. It is how we attempt to preserve our individuality. Look at George Orwell's 1984: in a supposedly classless society, people are differentiated by the tasks they perform, the clothes they wear and the benefits society bestows on them.

My advice is, ignore the bad comments and enjoy the good ones. In an ideal society, no one would comment, but we can't change the world. Laugh with those who seek to make fun of you, and they will realise there is no point in laughing at you. When all is said and done, the opinion of those you look up to is all that matters anyway.

 

[Hal]

This is a very simplistic explanation of the forces that I see at play, and is a view that is not particularly "PC". Especially in America, and increasingly in the UK, society likes to think of itself as classless.

You are right here, but be careful of the word "classless" - I understand that in the USA it can mean "not classy" as well as the sense in which we Britons use the word.

 

[Bourbon Guy]

Under normal circumstances I would have responded with a stiff left hook,...

Despite what you may see on TV or in the movies, it is never permissible or justified to hit someone because they called you a name or you don't like what they said about your clothes. Everyone should have outgrown this response and learned self control by the time they were about 8 years old. Remember "sticks and stones"?

Ignore this advice at your peril. Try throwing that left hook in those circumstances and you may just be treated to a tour of the local jail, where the company will be even less to your liking and the comments much more pointed.

 

[Carlisle Blues]

Don't like lawyers, eh? http://www.spectacle.org/797/finkel.html

.

Seth Finkelstein is an Internet activist.
Nice quotes Marc what is an internet activist?[huh] [huh]

 

[donCarlos]

I get this a lot.
When I´m going somewhere with my friends, they often tell me "...and wear something normal please, T-shirt and jeans..." My response is always the same "I will not. Nobody would notice me and I would look as bad as you".

Yes, I´m a narcist and it helps me a lot

 

[Subvet642]

I don't get it

Maybe Carlisle Blues can chime in on this, but I can't imagine anyone giving anyone else a hard time over their clothing. Maybe because Eastern Massachusetts has so many colleges and universities with their diverse populations, but some of the stories I've read on this post are astounding. I live south of the city, but work in town, and I see folks wearing clothing in all sorts of styles and genres, and in my experience, people will only comment if it is complementary.

 

[Kermez]

"I will not. Nobody would notice me and I would look as bad as you".

Nice. :eusa_clap

 

[Edward]

I get the odd comment, though frankly the negative (always on the street, always from teenage boys) are far outweighed by the positive. The latter tend to come mostly from attractive young women, in the social sphere, and senior persons in my employment context. I'm certainly not complaining about either.

ETA: Nobody seems to think it odd, especially, that I dress well: I suspect in part this may be a result of my working in academia where a degree of eccentricity is almost expected.


The funniest one as the child of six whom Iover heard asking (in reference to my black and white spectators): "Mummy, why is that man wearing lady shoes?" lol

 

[Hemingway Jones]

Maybe Carlisle Blues can chime in on this, but I can't imagine anyone giving anyone else a hard time over their clothing. Maybe because Eastern Massachusetts has so many colleges and universities with their diverse populations, but some of the stories I've read on this post are astounding. I live south of the city, but work in town, and I see folks wearing clothing in all sorts of styles and genres, and in my experience, people will only comment if it is complementary.

Agreed! We are indeed fortunate to live in an enlightened and diverse place. This is why I love Boston so very much.

Now anecdotes never prove or disprove a rule, but we certainly live in an accepting and tolerant place.

 

[Carlisle Blues]

Agreed! We are indeed fortunate to live in an enlightened and diverse place. This is why I love Boston so very much.

Now anecdotes never prove or disprove a rule, but we certainly live in an accepting and tolerant place.

Much agreed Hemingway and Subvet!!! When I lived in another part of the US I would wear my fedora and get very, very strange looks. I thought it was hilarious. lol lol

 

[LizzieMaine]

Interesting -- I live in a place which you urban folks would probably consider to be neither enlightened nor diverse, and yet nobody'd give a guy in a fedora a second look. Mostly because we believe the greatest virtue a person can have is to mind their own business.

 

[Ghostsoldier]

Good thread.

I dress a mixture of "vintagey" most of the time, wavering between 30's gangster to 50's hood...I wear vintage browline glasses and Chuck Taylors, and I also wear a casual hat everyday, but it's a form of porkpie, and since I own a Bluesmobile and black G-man suit (a movie that is one of my other passions), I get called a "Blues Brother" all of the time... ...during the winter and fall, I wear long wool coats and vintage suits, so I get called a "gangster" a lot, also...I'm 45, I really don't give a damn what people think of me (never have), and I live to do my own thing, so it just rolls off my back when I hear a snide remark...
Rob

 

[BegintheBeguine]

Too bad I can't get there from here, LizzieMaine.

 

[Subvet642]

Interesting -- I live in a place which you urban folks would probably consider to be neither enlightened nor diverse, and yet nobody'd give a guy in a fedora a second look. Mostly because we believe the greatest virtue a person can have is to mind their own business.

I'm not surprised, Lizzie. After all, Maine was a part of Massachusetts until about 1780. I think we share that certain Yankee sensibility that values privacy. Sadly, some interpret that as being cold. However, once people get to know us, we won't shut up. lol

 

[Carlisle Blues]

Interesting -- I live in a place which you urban folks would probably consider to be neither enlightened nor diverse, and yet nobody'd give a guy in a fedora a second look. Mostly because we believe the greatest virtue a person can have is to mind their own business.

In my experience "urban" has very little to do with reaction. Growing up in an urban environment the only thing I had was my appearance. I loved looking sharp. I got my chops busted all the time by the guys. Females on the other hand ... I had some great friends. [huh] [huh]

 

[John in Covina]

A proper education, a firm set of good values and life experience is what many young people lack. An adherence to a herd mentality, short attentions spans and the need for constant entertainment tends to over ride their ability to acquire them, at least for quite a while.

Here the latest generations are so proud to tell you that they are what they're not. Tolerant and mind full of the environment are two that come to the fore front in my mind, because in reality so many are neither.

All you can do is find some magazines that have a lot of pictures of the past or Hollywood stars or something and leave them in the lunch room to see if any one would read and maybe learn a little.

 

[Undertow]

I honestly think in most situations the typical "outsider" sees suit and tie dress, or in women's cases dresses/skirts/blouses, as something typical to white collar business uniform alone. I believe it makes others uneasy because they may feel you have a, perhaps unfounded, sense of superiority; or at the least, they are intimidated by your choice of good style.

I've been ostracized many times for my choice in style and dress. I was almost boo'ed out of a wedding for wearing black tie(hey, they told me to dress formally, I assumed wrongly they meant more than khakis and button up shirt)

I was almost laughed out of a college-town bar when I stepped in for a beer. I was attending a lecture given by Temple Grandin with a friend of mine. Apparently, only a professor of the University would wear a suit and wingtips because they were themselves awkward and snickering.

I used to wear suits and sport coats to work when I was employed at Iowa Student Loan. You would think a company like that, dealing with schools, money and families, would encourage classic style, or at least suits, if one so chose. Even the head of the Human Resources department became angry with me and advised me that it was bad taste (bad taste!! :rage: ) to be so arrogant.

Of course, I continued, and continue, to wear suits, or formal wear, when I see fit and I care little of the responses I may receive.