Need help identifying man in old photo

[Big Man]

I need your help. The man in the two photos on the right are the same person; one photo was taken in 1869 and the other in 1903. What I want to ask is, do you think the man (young man) in the first photo is the same person?

The last two photos are of my great grandfather, Doctor Clayton Brown. He was born in 1843 and died in 1943. I know that I cannot be objective in making an identification of the first person, that is why I would like the help of the fine folks at the Fedora Lounge.

 

[lolly_loisides]

I don't think they are the same man. Take a look at the first mans ears, they don't stick out as much & his lobes are a little smaller than the man in the other 2 photos.
My 2 cents worth.

 

[griffer]

Gut reaction is that the photo of the young man on the left is much better quality than either of the two photos shwoing him as an older man.

I don't think an 1850s photo would look that good.

Also, hair and shirt look later.

There is a family resemblance, though.

 

[Big Man]

Gut reaction is that the photo of the young man on the left is much better quality than either of the two photos shwoing him as an older man.

I don't think an 1850s photo would look that good.

Also, hair and shirt look later.

There is a family resemblance, though.

The first photo is from a tintype. The original is rather dark, so I lightened it up a bit so it would be easier to see. The original tintype is, however, a very clear photo.

Thanks for your input.

 

[Big Man]

I don't think they are the same man. Take a look at the first mans ears, they don't stick out as much & his lobes are a little smaller than the man in the other 2 photos.
My 2 cents worth.

Good observation on the ears. I was drawn to the general "stern look"on the face of all three (especially the first two). Thanks for your input.

 

[Lincsong]

I need your help. The man in the two photos on the right are the same person; one photo was taken in 1869 and the other in 1903. What I want to ask is, do you think the man (young man) in the first photo is the same person?

The last two photos are of my great grandfather, Doctor Clayton Brown. He was born in 1843 and died in 1943. I know that I cannot be objective in making an identification of the first person, that is why I would like the help of the fine folks at the Fedora Lounge.

It's hard to tell because the second and third pictures have a mustache. In the first picture the man's hair is combed down over his forehead almost to his eyebrows. There is a slight comb on the second but none on the third. The hair in the third picture has a peak right in the middle of the forehead. The eyebrows are different in all three pictures. The eyes in the second aren't as deep set as the first.

 

[nulty]

There are resemblances yes but is the first the same as the other two..? I'm going to say no...for me it's the eyes..they don't convey the same sense of personality..they are set wider apart and contain something the other two do not....could it be that the first fellow is in his early to mid teen years and his affect is just the intensity of youth ?..maybe...and with photos this old, hard to say what we are seeing and not seeing...but for now I'm going to wager no...If you get any more info on the pics it would be wonderful if you could share it...

 

[Big Man]

... If you get any more info on the pics it would be wonderful if you could share it...

If I ever do find out who the person in photo one is, I will post it here. I have a huge box of old family photos from the late 1800's through the 1940's. While I can identify most of them (either by knowing the subject or by a written name on the old photo), there are way too many that I cannot. This one, since it is a tintype, is especially interesting to me.

 

[Tomasso]

I'm with Lolly on her ear theory.

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

As a painter of portraits,...I would say no. The first picture is most definitely a different person. The face is shorter overall, and a bit broader at the chin. The eyes and ears are different as well as has been noted by others. The nose looks a tad shorter in the first picture also. The cheek bones are also higher.

 

[kpreed]

OK, time for me to get on my soapbox. I do photo detective work and restoration/conservation, as a full time job.
1. I used my software and no the first guy is not in the other photos.
2. Please mark who you know is in any photo in #2 pencil, lightly on the back. You will not be here to tell who it is forever.
3. Store any old photos in a low humidity place (basements and attics can be really bad) and control the temp! Dark places are best as photos will/can fade with to much light.
4. Scan all the photos you want to keep and make copies of them on a DVD or drive and check it often, Store them all in diff. but safe places and only display a copy of a old photo, not the real photo. This way you can enjoy them while keeping originals safe from light, fires and floods.
I can go on and on, but will not, just my 2¢

 

[Yeps]

Also, there is no way that the young man in the first photo would have that much hair as he ages. Look how deeply his hairline is already receeding.

 

[Big Man]

OK, time for me to get on my soapbox. I do photo detective work and restoration/conservation, as a full time job.
1. I used my software and no the first guy is not in the other photos.
2. Please mark who you know is in any photo in #2 pencil, lightly on the back. You will not be here to tell who it is forever.
3. Store any old photos in a low humidity place (basements and attics can be really bad) and control the temp! Dark places are best as photos will/can fade with to much light.
4. Scan all the photos you want to keep and make copies of them on a DVD or drive and check it often, Store them all in diff. but safe places and only display a copy of a old photo, not the real photo. This way you can enjoy them while keeping originals safe from light, fires and floods.
I can go on and on, but will not, just my 2¢

Thanks. As you are an expert, I will mark off my list that the first photo could have been a picture of my great grandfather at a younger age. Now, all I have to do is to figure out who he is.

As you work in this field, based upon the clothing and the fact the photo is a tintype (it's about 3" x 2"), what would be your opinion on the age (date) of the first photo?

 

[dhermann1]

I'd love to see the whole image of the first one. Are you sure it's a tintype? I believe they are very rare. I suspect it's a daguerrotype. Regardless, they're both very delicate. One thing I've learned about them is never to even attempt to clean one in any way, because it will only damage the original image.

 

[Big Man]

I'd love to see the whole image of the first one. Are you sure it's a tintype? I believe they are very rare. I suspect it's a daguerrotype. Regardless, they're both very delicate. One thing I've learned about them is never to even attempt to clean one in any way, because it will only damage the original image.

What is the difference in a tintype and a daguerreotype? The one I have (well, actually there are three that are just alike) are small, thin metal, with a very smooth image. One is very dark, another (the one shown in my original post) is dark, but clear, and the third is clear as a bell. All three are the same size, about 2x3 inches, and are a torso shot (what you see in the one I posted is all of the image).

I have a fourth image of my grandfather, taken in 1899 when he was in the Army, that is on a thicker metal and has a thicker (and much clearer) image. It is defiantly a different type of process/photo than the other three.

 

[Big Man]

Everyone was so much help with my first "who is it" photo question, that I need to solicit your opinions on another set of old photos.

The woman in all the pictures EXCEPT the second one are positively identified as my great grandmother, Sarah Frady Brown (1847-1928). The first picture was taken on or about her marriage in 1866 and the last picture was taken in August, 1928 (she died in December, 1928).

I think the second picture may be my great grandmother, but I just can't be positive. The photo is on card-stock and is marked "C.T. Pomeroy, K.C. Mo.". My great grandparents moved from North Carolina to Johnson County, Kansas in 1870 ("about 10 miles south-west of Kansas City" according to family history). They returned to NC in December, 1878.

This photo was in a box of old photos I received from my great aunt's house a number of years ago. To the best of my knowledge, no other family member lived in that area before or after my great grandparents were there. They did have several children while in Kansas, but none of the children would have been that age while the family was there.

I've been trying to figure out who this woman is for several years. It was a rainy day today and I was looking at the old pictures. For the first time I happened to look at all of these photos at the same time and was struck on (what I think) is a great similarity to the "unknown woman" and my great grandmother. Like in my previous old photo request, I know that I cannot be totally objective, so that's why I'm asking for help again. Any help and opinions you good folks can give will be greatly appreciated.

 

[kpreed]

Thanks. As you are an expert, I will mark off my list that the first photo could have been a picture of my great grandfather at a younger age. Now, all I have to do is to figure out who he is.

As you work in this field, based upon the clothing and the fact the photo is a tintype (it's about 3" x 2"), what would be your opinion on the age (date) of the first photo?

A real date for your TinType is a hard guess as they where very popular. My oldest is from 1864 and newest is 1911, but if I was making a guess from what I see, 1870-1880s.
Tintype: An image on a thin iron plate resembling tin.
Daguerreotype: An image on a silver-coated copper plate. Some I have might be just really high polished metal.
Ambrotype: An image on a transparent glass plate with a black backing. Some I have are black paint, others metal.

People are surpised to find out that many 1800s photographs were not paper but glass and metal. The standard metal and glass photographs like Duaguerreotypes, Ambrotypes and Tintypes. (in order of age/invention) These are popular with collectors and come in different sizes and presentations. Your TinType sounds like ¼ plate size.

Daguerreotypes , Ambrotypes and Tintypes were all originally housed in special cases, later (post 1890s) Tintypes just came in a paper sleeve.
When I can, I will work on your new photo.
P.S. A Dag. on Silver will tarnish when exposed to air, so be careful anyone with those!

 

[Rathdown]

In the United States tintype photography existed well into the 1950s, and as late as the 1960s tintypes of tourists were taken in Tiajuana. Mexico. I would not be surprised if the photo of the young man was taken in rural America sometime post-1900.

 

[kpreed]

In the United States tintype photography existed well into the 1950s, and as late as the 1960s tintypes of tourists were taken in Tiajuana. Mexico. I would not be surprised if the photo of the young man was taken in rural America sometime post-1900.

FYI, There are artist today doing Tintypes still, so it really never stopped, just not as popular as before.

 

[Big Man]

A real date for your TinType is a hard guess as they where very popular. My oldest is from 1864 and newest is 1911, but if I was making a guess from what I see, 1870-1880s.
Tintype: An image on a thin iron plate resembling tin.
Daguerreotype: An image on a silver-coated copper plate. Some I have might be just really high polished metal.
Ambrotype: An image on a transparent glass plate with a black backing. Some I have are black paint, others metal.

People are surpised to find out that many 1800s photographs were not paper but glass and metal. The standard metal and glass photographs like Duaguerreotypes, Ambrotypes and Tintypes. (in order of age/invention) These are popular with collectors and come in different sizes and presentations. Your TinType sounds like ¼ plate size.

Daguerreotypes , Ambrotypes and Tintypes were all originally housed in special cases, later (post 1890s) Tintypes just came in a paper sleeve.
When I can, I will work on your new photo.
P.S. A Dag. on Silver will tarnish when exposed to air, so be careful anyone with those!

Thanks for the information. From your description, I'd say what I have is a tintype. I have four or five of them (all the same size), but unfortunately I only know who the subject is on one (my great grandfather about 1866). The others (all male and all about 15 to 20 years old) remain a mystery.