Necktie Knots

[ecorrigan]

Can anyone tell me what kind of knot it is that I often see worn over top of a collar bar? I was given a white gold collar bar for a gift a while ago (don't know if I can still find it again though ) and I'd like to wear it. It always seems that it's a thin or narrow knot. I'd like to figure out what it is and try it a time or two!!

 

[Shangas]

Sounds like the four-in-hand knot.

 

[Gin&Tonics]

Can anyone tell me what kind of knot it is that I often see worn over top of a collar bar? I was given a white gold collar bar for a gift a while ago (don't know if I can still find it again though ) and I'd like to wear it. It always seems that it's a thin or narrow knot. I'd like to figure out what it is and try it a time or two!!

There's an episode of Granada's Sherlock Holmes, The Crooked Man, where the young secretary wears a Prince Albert knot over top of a collar bar.

 

[Shangas]

What exactly, is a prince albert knot?

 

[Rabbit]

What exactly, is a prince albert knot?

http://asuitablewardrobe.dynend.com...Feed:+ASuitableWardrobe+(A+Suitable+Wardrobe)

Prince Albert = "double" four-in-hand

The Prince Albert is a four-in-hand with one additional wrap around the slim end. It makes an ever so slightly more elongated knot than the four-in-hand, otherwise it looks extremely (and surprisingly) similar, provided one makes the first wrap around the slim end (step 2 in the linked pic) pretty tight before continuing with the second wrap, which will be used to make the actual knot. If you tie it like this, the Prince Albert is not really any bulkier and has the same amount of asymmetry as the four-in-hand. It also uses up a couple of inches more necktie length, making it a useful alternative to the four-in-hand when a tie is slightly too long.
Edit: However, with both wool ties in general and knitted ties of any material, the Prince Albert makes too bulky a knot, in my experience.

Personally, I wear nothing but four-in-hand knots, and I consider the Prince Albert to be the only alternative.

 

[Rabbit]

Can anyone tell me what kind of knot it is that I often see worn over top of a collar bar? I was given a white gold collar bar for a gift a while ago (don't know if I can still find it again though ) and I'd like to wear it. It always seems that it's a thin or narrow knot. I'd like to figure out what it is and try it a time or two!!

Four-in-hand on a tie with thin or nonexistent lining and/or with a very narrow width at the knot area, like some of the ties of that era had it (the narrow "neck", I mean).

 

[ecorrigan]

Shangas, the four-in-hand knot looks right, but why is it that every time I tie that knot, it comes out looking crooked?

 

[Shangas]

The 4-in-hand always looks crooked. It was never supposd to be completely symmetrical. If you want a symmetrical knot, try doing a full windsor.

 

[Gin&Tonics]

The 4-in-hand always looks crooked. It was never supposd to be completely symmetrical. If you want a symmetrical knot, try doing a full windsor.

Or a half windsor, if you need less width in your knot.

Speaking of width, I was watching some tv personalities with fist size tie knots the other day, trying to keep my lunch down, and wondering what in the world are they doing to make knots that big? Quadruple windsors?

By the by, what's the consensus on the appropriate knot to wear with a button down collar? Four in hand?

 

[AntonAAK]

By the by, what's the consensus on the appropriate knot to wear with a button down collar? Four in hand?

That would be my choice but then that would be my choice with any kind of collar. Cocktails or tie-knots invented after 1930 all seem pretty redundant to me...

 

[Twill]

So, since reading this thread a few days ago, I've been enjoying the Pratt knot quite a bit. I usually do a four-in-hand or half windsor depending on the length/thickness of the tie and the collar type. Unfortunately, I have a rather large mid section to cover, so the length is always a problem. The Pratt knot is perfect for this; it doesn't take up a lot of tie length. So, bigger guys should try it.

 

[filfoster]

The Windsor knot requires a spread collar, a very long tie for taller folks, and the result makes you look like a TV talking-head former pro jock. Watch ESPN to see very large heads (no steroids, I'm sure) above Windsor knots large enough to create a gravitational field.

 

[Dinerman]

Unless you're using a vintage tie.

 

[TCMfan25]

Four in Hand for every collar!

Works great with spread, cutaway, club, tab, and point!!! Try it out, the smaller size and asymmetry gives it a bit of character instead of having a gargantuan-triangle at the top of your tie.

Example with cutaway ala' RL Purple Label:

 

[filfoster]

Four in Hand for every collar!

Works great with spread, cutaway, club, tab, and point!!! Try it out, the smaller size and asymmetry gives it a bit of character instead of having a gargantuan-triangle at the top of your tie.

Example with cutaway ala' RL Purple Label:

To paraphrase General Pershing: a four in hand is enough for any man.

 

[MisterGrey]

Notwithstanding that the collar in that picture is laughably wide (give me a spread collar any day, but not one that looks as though someone has tried to pry it off of my chest), the four-in-hand exposes too much of the collar band. It looks sloppy and half-done; an appropriately tied windsor is just the ticket for filling in the "gap" of the spread collar as well as covering up the band for a neat, put together look. Footballers/soccer stars be damned: it's a good and decent knot and we ought not stop using it simply because it's been hijacked by a certain sartorially unpalatable set.

 

[Gin&Tonics]

Notwithstanding that the collar in that picture is laughably wide (give me a spread collar any day, but not one that looks as though someone has tried to pry it off of my chest), the four-in-hand exposes too much of the collar band. It looks sloppy and half-done; an appropriately tied windsor is just the ticket for filling in the "gap" of the spread collar as well as covering up the band for a neat, put together look. Footballers/soccer stars be damned: it's a good and decent knot and we ought not stop using it simply because it's been hijacked by a certain sartorially unpalatable set.

Hear, hear! I've always worn a full windsor, and I love the sharp, crisp, put together look it gives. I remember hearing it referred to as "The Vicious V", whch definitely appeals to me. My windsors have never been excessively large or unweildy, and I generally dislike the asymmetrical appearance of the four-in-hand. To my eye, it usually looks sloppy. Where I do like it is with a button down collar, where the more casual style of the collar as well as the shape and width of the gap between the points is perfectly complemented by the proportions as well as the nonchalant style of the four-in-hand.

Part of the fun of tie knots is chosing different knots for different looks and occasions, to convey different impressions depending on one's mood.

 

[filfoster]

Notwithstanding that the collar in that picture is laughably wide (give me a spread collar any day, but not one that looks as though someone has tried to pry it off of my chest), the four-in-hand exposes too much of the collar band. It looks sloppy and half-done; .

See avatar at left for correctly tied four-in-hand

 

[Trombone]

I think that is a very interesting statement Gin&Tonics, that your tie KNOT expresses a certain type of emotion. It shows the thought that you--and what I try to do--put into your outfit, even in the case of just throwing on a beater shirt (and by that I mean not a tank undershirt, but any shirt that is for casual lounging purposes) and whatnot, we still have a sense of thoughtfulness. These ideas go far beyond attire and are the foundations of being aware to the moment. I had a teacher who said that our breath is the closest example we have to being in the moment; now I see that even actions like what knot to use have a very close relation to the moment, when this kind of thought is applied to it. Pardon me for ranting about the moment, I just wanted to express the connection between Tie Knots, Emotion, and Awareness.

btw, I am jealous of the number of tie knot some of you know, it's astounding

 

[TCMfan25]

Notwithstanding that the collar in that picture is laughably wide (give me a spread collar any day, but not one that looks as though someone has tried to pry it off of my chest), the four-in-hand exposes too much of the collar band. It looks sloppy and half-done; an appropriately tied windsor is just the ticket for filling in the "gap" of the spread collar as well as covering up the band for a neat, put together look. Footballers/soccer stars be damned: it's a good and decent knot and we ought not stop using it simply because it's been hijacked by a certain sartorially unpalatable set.

I disagree. The right amount of IMPERFECTION is the best for any ensemble; and, the cutaway (although I prefer a club or spread) looks great with many outfits. The four in hand knot is the optimal knot for any situation.