Name The Last Time There Was So Much Naked

[Veronica Parra]

"With women, the more unhappy they are, the more undressed they are.

Oh yes indeed: Tahitian and Hawaiian women of the 19th century were so unhappy. Their lot improved so very much when the missionaries made them put on neck-to-toe muumuus. Made all the sense in the world in a tropical climate.

 

[JustJen]

Or has fallen out! lol (Yes, it does happen with age.)

lol...please tell me you're not complaining! If that's the case, I am so ready to grow older!

 

[mysterygal]

Don't worry, KAT; it's an American thing. Over here, when TV documentaries show breast surgery, they blur out the nipples. For Pete's sake: must we sexualize everything, even the nipples of a breast being operated on? This in a society that finds public breastfeeding "uncomfortable". I don't understand it, and apparently you share my perplexity.

I wonder though, if it is just our culture that feels this way. Me and the mister have actually had a conversation about this subject not too long ago. On documentaries of breast surgery, we find it ridiculous to blur the nipples as well, what's the point when it's all right there anyways? You look at ads in magazines, there are countless topless models, usually having nothing to do with clothes...pretty soon these ads will be for toothpaste, but, again, at the most there will be their arm covering the nipples. Not saying just let them go all out with that...I for one, don't need that kind of advertising to convice me to buy a certain brand. I would actually prefer them to go the opposite direction and go a classy route.
I find it interesting when talking to men though, that for the most part, they think that a woman who is dressed classy and showing more skin than what is around, they find as more sexy.
With breastfeeding, it does not make me feel uncomfortable, however, I like some warning before some lady whips those puppies out!

 

[Shaul-Ike Cohen]

Don't worry, KAT; it's an American thing. Over here, when TV documentaries show breast surgery, they blur out the nipples.

The superficial paradox is that often enough, the whole scene take of, for instance, a breast being operated on is not shown for educational purposes as they claim, but simply in order to be able to show a breast.

This is pornography (whatever you think about the legitimacy of pornography), defined as showing primary or secondary sexual characteristics for the purpose of arousal.

Strange country.

 

[scotrace]

I made my original point badly

Which was simply this:

Historically, especially in much of the Golden Era we prize, a person of either sex could use well-made garments to make their own individual body shape look its best. Perhaps something of this art has been lost, along with its benefits, when few garments are worn.

Exceptions? Certainly! The clingy/filmy dresses of the late 1920's and early 1930's complimented only the most slender form. And costume has also been a tool for accentuating some body parts while minimizing others, as extreme fashion dictated (think bustle + corset).
The pendulum will no doubt swing back someday. I am as worshipful of a nice leg, bare shoulders and a plunging neckline as it's probably possible to be. When it's all covered up again, if I'm still around, I'll probably complain loudly.
But quite far removed from exposed or not exposed, the day when a woman at the dress shop*, or a man at the tailor's, were fussed over and anything one bought was invariably taken in here. let out there, a bit of something added elsewhere so that it fit well and helped you, as a customer, to feel your best and most confident (and thus become a loyal customer) is mostly gone. As has been pointed out here, few people now have this knowledge or training so they don't know what works and what doesn't, for their specific body type. Some better stores are returning to this kind of service. And this is what you get today when you employ a personal shopper or wardrobe consultant.
The event that sparked this thread was a visit to a public park where there were many people on a hot day. In people-watching, it seemed that I saw many, many people who could have benefitted from wearing more clothing that was designed to flatter while also keeping the wearer cool. Going out in public very much exposed (with many children around) seemed like a solution based in ignorance of what could be done to better effect.

*In almost any ladies' dress shop up through the 1960's, the sales clerk went into the dressing room with the customer to help with fitting.

 

[Caledonia]

Excellent recovery Scotrace Just found the thread, and having read it through, I got your point first time! Can I just admit as a UK resident, that the problem is rife here too. Somebody said, way back in the thread, that it's down to brain power, and most things are. One can be borne or raised with style, but the brain is an amazing thing and can aid or abett you in every venture. So whether you have "training" or not in how to present yourself to best advantage, one part of your brain can still override the other and you end up in Muffintopland (And that's a guy problem too, in case anyone hadn't noticed). Of course, everybody is entitled to wear exactly what they want whenever they want, and everyone is entitled to their own view of that (and in some cases the legislature even legislates on it) but at the end of it all I doubt anybody seriously wants to look like a midden, they just don't know that they do or it is genuinely a look they want. There are so many ideas nowadays about what to look like and what is acceptable, and a lot of peer and media pressure. So, unless you are strong enough in confidence to wear what you want (whether it suits you or not), you are going to be influenced. I guess it's less likely that someone influenced to think about their body shape and what suits is going to end up with those "what is he/she wearing for heaven's sake" candid photos in the park, but it could happen. Training, brainpower, and the University of Hard Knocks (Course in Style, Self Awareness and Improvement Department), all come into play. Alluding again to somebody else's comments on judgement - we all think it's unfair to judge, and we all do it. That's human. So after running along the top of the fence for a while, what side do I fall on? Do what you like, but I reserve the right to really, really wish you'd cover it up, and I respect your right to hate how I look - but I'll do it anyway!

 

[mysterygal]

topic took a bit of a turn,eh?
I know I am still learning on what truly fits great. With just discovering girdles and such, I'm amazed at how much better clothes look, but also, how great I feel in them. Stores these days do not sell tailored clothing like I've been buying at vintage stores. There's a quality there that is lost. You put on a vintage dress, then put on a dress from any mall store...there is a difference.
Being totaly covered up like in the victorian era will never completely come back. Looking even at some pictures from the 30's and 40's..I was really suprised at how risque some of the actresses looked (I guess I was thinking it was all just innocence back then!)
My hope is not to cover every square inch of skin that you possibly can, but to get back to wearing clothes that are 'tasteful' and head more towards the conservative side

 

[Lady Day]

Whilst I agree that much of this derives from laziness and "not knowing any better" - I also submit to you that some over-exposed dressers are somewhat at the mercy of the modern fashion industry. In the complete absence of taste, the consuming public has few options. Did the fashion industry respond to demands from the slovenly to create more sloven or did the marginally dressed in the first place simply acquiesce to the available choices at the local department store?

The emo look everyone hates. http://www.dobi.nu/emo/

I HATED those low rise jeans, but for years that was all I could find, so after a while you stop careing. Once the hiip trend reaches the 50" wasteline, its time to move onto the next trend. The long romantic lacy stuff is 'in' now. So who knows, in two years when that trend has run its corse, WalMArt will have that stuff for $1.99 and we will see those folks covered.

I love 'wrapping the present' so to speak. Dressing nice is so much fun, and almost likewearing a costume. Yesterday I wore a skirt I made (knee lenght) a cartigan, bobbie socks and a tailored white shirt. I looked straight out of the 50s and people looked and smiled and I got so many compliments. People like to see people who take care of themselves, not for vanity, but confidence.

So many people, of all sizes get their fashion cue from what 'The OC' tells them. Its sad more than anything.

Becides, girls need those low rise jeans to show off those skanky lower back tattoos that have been all the rage lately.
LD

 

[KAT]

Don't worry, KAT; it's an American thing. Over here, when TV documentaries show breast surgery, they blur out the nipples. For Pete's sake: must we sexualize everything, even the nipples of a breast being operated on? This in a society that finds public breastfeeding "uncomfortable". I don't understand it, and apparently you share my perplexity.

thanks, at least one
i could start discussing about that now and about blurring out the nipples of tribal african women on TV...
public breastfeeding....dont get me start on that subject...i dont get it...weird country...

im outta here
the proud nude german girl

 

[Mrs. MK]

The Vintage Fit

A woman with a less-than-perfect figure, in a long dress or gown, with a tuck here, a dart there, some pleats or a bit of padding, could appear to be darn near perfect and no one need be the wiser.

I for one have never been one to try to show off my less attractive features, and I always try to find clothes that flatter the shape that I have, though it's less than perfect. I love the way vintage dresses fit me. They are made to flatter an even less than perfect body. I think a lot of new clothes are designed to look great on very slender people but not less than perfect figures.

Bathing suits is a big issue for women, and I am so glad that there is a big trend out there for more modest (and more flattering) bathing suits. Land's End and some of the other catalog clothing companies have a good variety of modest suits. I'm sure you knew that!

Mrs. MK

 

[Fred G.]

This has been a great thread... I think it points out what all brings us to this Lounge... that sense of style, carrying ourselves with class, recognizing that sensible fashion is not common (anymore) but a mark of distinction to be appreciated.

Today, everything from titillating nudity (not the national geographic kind), foul language, violence, etc is so ordinary in these days, it hardly registers.

My grandparents, who were born in the 1890's and lived their lives in the 20th century, thought Elvis was absolutely vulgar, with his music and swinging hips. Seems pretty tame now-- I'll bet Grandma would keel over at Britney, Madonna, and Howard Stern and the concept of Do, Say, Wear Anything, Anytime.

What people wear to the park seems to follow that sentiment. Somebody said it-- a lack of good home-training is a factor, no doubt. I don't think a lot of people get up in the morning and say, "Hmm, I think I'll wear somethin' tacky today"... I think it's just not on their priority list to think about their personal style, and how other people are interpreting you, based on your style (good or otherwise).

For the people who are concerned with their personal style, and make an honest effort to dress and act appropriate to the situations we find ourselves in-- my Fedora's off to you...

 

[Lady Day]

Which was simply this: Historically, especially in much of the Golden Era we prize, a person of either sex could use well-made garments to make their own individual body shape look its best. Perhaps something of this art has been lost, along with its benefits, when few garments are worn.

True! To make clothes at home was the norm, but it was considered a treat to get something store bought. Now, thanks to the magic of importing, its the other way around. Grabbing a pair of sweats, on sale for $10 is easier and cheaper than going ot the fabric store, selecting the fabric, accessories, and pattern then making a garment. Its just not cost effective anymore (unless you know what you are doing ).


LD

 

[Naama]

thanks, at least one
i could start discussing about that now and about blurring out the nipples of tribal african women on TV...

What now, they really do that?

Naama

 

[mysterygal]

There are places where you can see that kind of eye candy all you want. For me and many other people I know, we would prefer not to have that shoved in our faces. Speaking on a ladies point of view, there is quite a difference of treatment depending on what your attire is. Basically, you go around looking like a 'slut', your more than likely going to be treated as such.
When you go out in public, how you look portrays a message to everyone around you. So the question is, what kind of message are you sending and what kind of message do you want to send?.

 

[Feraud]

Wow.

There is rampant gymnophobia among some people on this forum.

I was about to totally agree with you. I absolutely hate going to the gym.
I decided to take a second to look up the word.

I do not see a real "fear" of nudity in the USA. Most of us readily admit we love the look of particular nudes! What a lot of people seem to have a problem with is the context of the nudity! I do not mean television, movies, websites, etc. Many people complain about the extra skin in settings like parks, buses, trains, or the workplace.
My personal complaint is more about dumpy American girls with their thongs and love handles hanging out than showing "fingernails and knuckes". :eusa_doh:

The USA bends over backwards trying to please every group that enters the country. Whether it be streetsigns in other languages to help people who are too lazy to figure out how to read "STOP" in English, or debating whether Group A should be allowed to wear their "traditional" garments to work. It we are being asked to accept the thong as "normal" in Greece or Italy then wouldn't it be fair to accept this country's standards are normal too? Let us have fair treatment all around.

The only thing sad about this discussion are those who do not realize how nasty they look. Men and women who succumb to the simple minded advertising telling them to be young and hip.

 

[Steve]

What a lot of people seem to have a problem with is the context of the nudity!

Well said.

 

[Paisley]

During my visits to Spain, France, Greece, Turkey, or Italy, for example, it was such that women are considered odd if they DO wear tops. Thong swimsuits are as normal as eyeglasses.

Surely not everywhere. As someone said, it's a matter of context. I understand that in some cathedrals in Europe, women are expected to wear a skirt and cover their heads. Although that is not my practice, as a visitor, I would respect the custom instead of arguing that women wear pants now and the display of a feminine hairdo never hurt anyone, and besides, nobody dresses that way in America.

To many normally configured people, a breast or buttock is as ambiguous as a knee or hip bone.

If it were me, I'd be disappointed if it caused ennui.

It is no wonder that the USA made itself a laughing stock from our "outraged" reaction to the Super Bowl "Malfunction."

And we should care because...?

 

[pigeon toe]

i couldnt get through this whole thread, so i may be a little off as to where it is right now, but oh well! 10 pages is a lot of reading!

honestly, i dont care whether someone is fat or someone is skinny. im sick of fatphobia in our society. yeah, there is a lot of obesity in america, but there are also people who naturally have bigger body types.

my boyfriend is fat, built like a lumberjack with broad shoulders and a pot belly, and i think he is sexy as hell and id wanna see him on a nude beach any day! just the same, id rather see a more voluptuous woman like mae west on a nude beach than another paris hilton!

fat, big, chubby, chunky, overweight, whatever, can be just as beautiful and sexy as thinness too (on both genders).

 

[Senator Jack]

I'm beginning to wonder why some people are drifting toward this forum. Maybe I'll register myself into the Outer Mongolian Fan Belt Appreciation Society just so I can tell them how much I can't stand Outer Mongolian Fan Belts.

No, we're all not going to agree about everything we discuss around here, but, jeez, at least we're pretty much all on the same trolley.

Regards,

Senator Jack

 

[Maj.Nick Danger]

There are places where you can see that kind of eye candy all you want. For me and many other people I know, we would prefer not to have that shoved in our faces. Speaking on a ladies point of view, there is quite a difference of treatment depending on what your attire is. Basically, you go around looking like a 'slut', your more than likely going to be treated as such.
When you go out in public, how you look portrays a message to everyone around you. So the question is, what kind of message are you sending and what kind of message do you want to send?.

Candy is so much more special when it's not around all the time. Same goes for eye candy.
I think that women being encouraged to show more skin by the media is a sad state of affairs for our "society".
I would be very disturbed to say the least, if I saw my, fiancee, girlfriend, or daughter in one of those "Girls Gone Wild" videos. I know someone that claims she has "taken her clothes off in a bar" as she so blithely put it, as if it were perfectly okay or normal for her to do this. She has very little self esteem, and it really shows in actions such as that. Not exactly the kind of message to send, especially as she has two really good kids.