Myths of the Golden Era -- Exploded!

[Stanley Doble]

Mish?

It could be any one of hundreds but I noticed it first on Zero Hedge. In fact I notice a lot of things first on Zero Hedge.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

I find it fascinating how language changes over time - not to mention with culture and location. The way some modern day Americans, particularly the far right, use "liberal" (as both an adjective and a smear) intrigues me, because what the mean by that term is so far removed from the concept of a "liberal" here in the UK - that's as well as it having meant something very different some hundred years ago. The general platform of both Democrats and Republicans has changed significantly in the last century, and it is entirely plausible that those who support one now may have been more inclined to the other, given similar views, back in the day. Republicans - now there's a term and a half. If I utter the words "I am a Republican" they are likely to mean something very different depending upon whether I am speaking to a person in the US, in England, or in Northern Ireland / The North of Ireland. Absolutely fascinating how the same words can be such a different language (insert the obvious George Bernard Shaw quote here...).

One of the more interesting examples of how political labels differ from one country to another is that one of the ultra right wing parties in Russia is called the Liberal Democratic Party.

 

[jamespowers]

And yet the Monkees were still a far superior band to the Beatles, and I'll go to my grave defending that view.

Well, they were far superior. It is just a fact.

 

[Undertow]

...And yet the Monkees were still a far superior band to the Beatles, and I'll go to my grave defending that view.

Haha, well, you got me there. I was never a big fan of the Beatles. Or the Beach Boys. Or Elvis, for that matter. I once commented that you could put all of the band members and their master recordings on a bus and throw it off the side of a cliff. Someone in line near me was quite offended, "The Beach Boys and Elvis are AMERICAN HISTORY - I'm offended." Sheesh, sorry lady. I better not tell her about the rest of American history...

Art is difficult to discredit because its interpretation is so subjective.

For instance, some of you may have seen a film titled Exit Through the Gift Shop in which street artists discuss a very organic, and often illegal, form of artistic expression. There was a French fellow that sometimes followed and video-documented their work. Eventually, he got it in his head that he, too, could be a street artist. He emulates popular street artists' works and sells millions of dollars worth of his "art" in galleries across the world.

The movie raises an important question - was the street art movement validated, or invalidated, when the likes of "Mr. Brainwash" were synthetically introduced into the fray and mainstream media latched on. It also makes one question - what IS art? What IS a culture? It's a good movie.

 

[AtomicEraTom]

Agreed. Certainly helped that they rode around in a Barris Kustom on their show.

Well, they were far superior. It is just a fact.

 

[John in Covina]

Sounds like it's organic if it is spray painted on your neighbor's property but illegal if it's on yours.

 

[John in Covina]

The Monkees were a corporate decision- a conglomeration using Neil Diamond's musical writing skills to drive many of the hits.

 

[Flicka]

And yet the Monkees were still a far superior band to the Beatles, and I'll go to my grave defending that view.

The Monkees had their moments; however, that statement is just pure, unadulterated wrong. If my mother heard that I'd let that go unrefuted she'd disown me. She grew up in the '60s and was a huge Beatles fan. However, she only had one record with them on account of my grandmother refusing to let her buy that sort of cheap music played by long-haired boys.

 

[LizzieMaine]

The movie raises an important question - was the street art movement validated, or invalidated, when the likes of "Mr. Brainwash" were synthetically introduced into the fray and mainstream media latched on. It also makes one question - what IS art? What IS a culture? It's a good movie.

We showed that picture a couple years ago and it spurred one of the liveliest discussion periods we've ever had. Our consensus was that "Mr Brainwash" was in fact a front for Banksy himself -- and was, essentially, a giant nose-thumbing at the whole idea of art as marketable product.

A lot of people in the Era thought the same thing was true of Salvador Dali -- that both his persona and his art were a gigantic put-on intended to point up the whole ridiculousness of art as a commodity.

 

[LizzieMaine]

And as far as music goes, Kay Kyser was far better than Sammy Kaye. But Sammy Kaye was far better than Blue Barron.

 

[Stanley Doble]

The Prefab Four

One of the Monkees said it best in an interview. In response to all the critics of their music he pointed out "The Monkees wasn't a band. We weren't musicians. The Monkees was a TV show about a band and we were actors playing musicians".

A fact that it is easy to forget.

 

[Flicka]

The Prefab Four

One of the Monkees said it best in an interview. In response to all the critics of their music he pointed out "The Monkees wasn't a band. We weren't musicians. The Monkees was a TV show about a band and we were actors playing musicians".

A fact that it is easy to forget.

Most of their recordings had studio musicians playing. If I remember correctly, that led to a lot of conflict later on as some of the members had greater musical aspirations than others and really did see themselves as musicians primarily.

 

[jamespowers]

The Monkees were a corporate decision- a conglomeration using Neil Diamond's musical writing skills to drive many of the hits.

And that was what made them better than a haphazardly put together group of nothings.

 

[vitanola]

And as far as music goes, Kay Kyser was far better than Sammy Kaye. But Sammy Kaye was far better than Blue Barron.

And I suppose Hal Kemp is chopped liver?

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

The Prefab Four

One of the Monkees said it best in an interview. In response to all the critics of their music he pointed out "The Monkees wasn't a band. We weren't musicians. The Monkees was a TV show about a band and we were actors playing musicians".

A fact that it is easy to forget.

The late Davy Jones had a background in musical theatre. Prior to the Monkees he was best known as the Artful Dodger in Oliver. Interestingly, this appearance on The Ed Sullivan Show was on the very same one that the Beatles made their US debut on February 9, 1964.

[video=youtube;3OVGY7Rjbhc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OVGY7Rjbhc[/video]

 

[Undertow]

Sounds like it's organic if it is spray painted on your neighbor's property but illegal if it's on yours.

I don't know if I'd go that far.

Again, it's "beauty in the eye of the beholder", and it's difficult to be black and white on the subject. Perhaps it would be better stated that all uncommissioned, unsolicited and unwanted art sprayed, painted, stuck-to or otherwise applied to any private property is illegal.

It just happens that you might let it slide if you like the art.

 

[Undertow]

We showed that picture a couple years ago and it spurred one of the liveliest discussion periods we've ever had. Our consensus was that "Mr Brainwash" was in fact a front for Banksy himself -- and was, essentially, a giant nose-thumbing at the whole idea of art as marketable product.

A lot of people in the Era thought the same thing was true of Salvador Dali -- that both his persona and his art were a gigantic put-on intended to point up the whole ridiculousness of art as a commodity.

I wondered about this myself.

Unfortunately at the time, I couldn't find a friend with three working brain cells to have that kind of analytical discussion. :eusa_doh:

 

[Edward]

One of the more interesting examples of how political labels differ from one country to another is that one of the ultra right wing parties in Russia is called the Liberal Democratic Party.

Yes, and North Korea is a "Democratic Republic".... Heh. I always have fun trotting these out when some twit rattles out the old "Hitler as a leftist, is says SOCIALIST right there in the party name!" nonsense. lol

Haha, well, you got me there. I was never a big fan of the Beatles. Or the Beach Boys. Or Elvis, for that matter. I once commented that you could put all of the band members and their master recordings on a bus and throw it off the side of a cliff. Someone in line near me was quite offended, "The Beach Boys and Elvis are AMERICAN HISTORY - I'm offended." Sheesh, sorry lady. I better not tell her about the rest of American history...

I'm sorry, what did you say about Elvis?? HERETIC! Prepared to be stoned, infidel!

(Would you believe nowhere on the internet is there a video clip of Colm Meany's "Elvis is God!" declaration in The Commitments? Shame on you, internet. Shame on you.

Art is difficult to discredit because its interpretation is so subjective.

For instance, some of you may have seen a film titled Exit Through the Gift Shop in which street artists discuss a very organic, and often illegal, form of artistic expression. There was a French fellow that sometimes followed and video-documented their work. Eventually, he got it in his head that he, too, could be a street artist. He emulates popular street artists' works and sells millions of dollars worth of his "art" in galleries across the world.

The movie raises an important question - was the street art movement validated, or invalidated, when the likes of "Mr. Brainwash" were synthetically introduced into the fray and mainstream media latched on. It also makes one question - what IS art? What IS a culture? It's a good movie.

It's interesting when these things are seized on and commercialised. It can produce something fun: the Monkees' were responsible for bringing some great pop music to the world, and the TV show was not only hilarious as a kid, but when you look at it now really rather anarchic and occasionally pretty subversive too (see for example the very first episode, when Peter steals towels from the hotel linen closet, and the think bubble over his head says "Everybody does it!"). It's also interesting how people move on: Flashmobs, for example, lost all credibility and died as a grassroots concept as soon as advertisers started using them as a way of duping people into appearing as unpaid extras in television advertisements.

The Monkees were a corporate decision- a conglomeration using Neil Diamond's musical writing skills to drive many of the hits.

Of course. And they were no less great pop music for that.

The Monkees had their moments; however, that statement is just pure, unadulterated wrong. If my mother heard that I'd let that go unrefuted she'd disown me. She grew up in the '60s and was a huge Beatles fan. However, she only had one record with them on account of my grandmother refusing to let her buy that sort of cheap music played by long-haired boys.

Ha. The Beatles were good, I'll give them that, though vastly overrated IMO. Had they carried on the way the Stones have, I don't beleive for a second would they have been quite as legendary as they are (mind you, to keep it at the Stones level - the better performers, IMO, though they were about tied as composers - would still be pretty impressive ). Course, what diminishes the Beatles a lot for me is the after the fact stuff.... like not a one of them writing or recording a single note worth a damn after they split. John Lennon committed some of the most heinous crimes against music, most particularly exposing the world to Yoko Ono...... (Mind you, Linda, bless her, wasn't much more of a singer either..... ).

The Prefab Four

One of the Monkees said it best in an interview. In response to all the critics of their music he pointed out "The Monkees wasn't a band. We weren't musicians. The Monkees was a TV show about a band and we were actors playing musicians".

A fact that it is easy to forget.

And isn't that part of their genius? To be fair, they were less manufactured than 99% of today's pop music...... and probably no more so than 99% of their contemporaries....

Most of their recordings had studio musicians playing. If I remember correctly, that led to a lot of conflict later on as some of the members had greater musical aspirations than others and really did see themselves as musicians primarily.

It did cause a lot of tension, yes. Peter and Mike were musicians turned actors, while Davy and Mickey both came from an acting background (Davy had a role for a while in television soap opera Coronation Street), albeit with a significant level of musical theatre. They did develop over time - Mickey became a very skilled drummer, actually. Later on the Monkees themselves both wrote and played more - if memory serves, it was the third album on which, according to Mickey, they played "every f**king note".

 

[jamespowers]

It did cause a lot of tension, yes. Peter and Mike were musicians turned actors, while Davy and Mickey both came from an acting background (Davy had a role for a while in television soap opera Coronation Street), albeit with a significant level of musical theatre. They did develop over time - Mickey became a very skilled drummer, actually. Later on the Monkees themselves both wrote and played more - if memory serves, it was the third album on which, according to Mickey, they played "every f**king note".

Mickey was and is hilarious. He is also a fedora lover. He comes from a theatrical family.
Mike is now a producer and wants nothing to do with his past.

 

[V.C. Brunswick]

I remember Mickey Dolenz from the Miller's Outpost commercials back in the '70s and early '80s
For some reason one of the commercials is repeated several times in this clip

[video=youtube;h28hlgq4CjM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h28hlgq4CjM[/video]