Mystery Shirts

[HarpPlayerGene]

Well, I searched diligently for an appropriate thread among the many Shirt related ones. Couldn't really find the trick so, naturally, I'm going to ADD yet another one.

Perhaps this will catch on as a place for posting pix and gaining feedback/insight on origins, style names, date ranges of all unusual types of shirts.

 

[HarpPlayerGene]

Here's one that I thrifted the other day. Seems like '30s meets Wild West, forshadows '70s. It does seem like the kind of thing which served as design inspiration for some of the disco era shirts.

No tags anywhere.

Wonderful fabric with interesting pattern and sharkskin effect.

Very old looking, browned, aged thread throughout.

A lot of hand sewing including all the button holes.

Intriguing metal buttons, hand attached.

One-piece collar, worn to a frazzle and repaired ages ago.

I'd like opinions, thoughts on this one. In person it seems terribly old and wonderful. I wore it tonight with an 80 year old Stetson No. 1 Quality western felt.

 

[rlk]

Nothing educational to add, but it is a terrific and interesting old western shirt. Pre-snap (?) with great buttons. Native Southwestern style evident. I like it a lot.

 

[HarpPlayerGene]

Here's another.

While the brand is not a mystery I am curious WHEN you learned types think this was made. I'm personally not familiar with that style of Towncraft design. If I had to take a stab, I'd hazard '40s. [huh]

Also what STYLE would this be? Adirondack? Southwestern? Mayan? Peruvian? Nepalese? Pachuco?...



Light weight, soft, tightly woven horizontally ribbed (corduroy?) material.

Loop collar.

Label attached over a portion of acetate material inside yoke of shirt.

Quasi- Action Pleats in back towards shoulders.

Box cut to be worn outside of trousers.



Looking forward to cooler temps - I'll wear this oddball!

 

[HarpPlayerGene]

OK, here's one you can beat me up about. I have to admit a morbid fascination with certain '70s threads. This 'dancin' shirt' was so 'eye-catching' I had to pay the $1.00 for it. Thought I'd just bag it and see if it becomes worth something in a decade or so. Then I put it on and actually LIKED it! [huh]

I'm going to wear it with black jeans and boots to band practice tomorrow. Most of the group are Southern Rock guys. This oughtta' shake 'em up a bit. lol

The buttons on the sleeves are the size of QUARTERS!

 

[HarpPlayerGene]

Nothing educational to add, but it is a terrific and interesting old western shirt. Pre-snap (?) with great buttons. Native Southwestern style evident. I like it a lot.

Thanks! Somebody really loved this thing.

 

[rlk]

Also what STYLE would this be? Adirondack? Southwestern? Mayan? Peruvian? Nepalese? Pachuco?...

You left out Minoan.

 

[repeatclicks]

If you ever wanna sell that red corduroy one... look me up!

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Red corduroy looks like a South American pattern. Reminds me of a Bolivian rug we use as a throw. Possibly southwest? See a lot of this type of pattern in the hills in Arizona.

The 70s one, well each to his own. I too am fascinated by the patterns of 70s leisure wear. But polyester makes me feel sick; memories of terrible school trousers. [shudder]

The first one is indeed interesting. Looks like a home reinforcement of the buttonhole at the collar. Is that another buttonhole under the collar button? That would make it very interesting. Metal buttons. Interesting and possibly indicative of age. I was originally thinking it was extremely old - possibly old west; 1860s or so. I don't rule that out, but machine stitching throughout? And not "pull-over"? Is it silk? How about a burn test to ascertain this?

bk

 

[HarpPlayerGene]

Is that another buttonhole under the collar button? That would make it very interesting.

THANKS, Baron.

That age assessment is somewhat surprising yet conceivable. I was thinking no later than turn-of-the-century/teens.

Yes, there IS a button hole behind the button at the collar. Made me think the shirt either originally was intended for a stud there or possibly that a person made a mistake in the initial button hole placement. A curiosity for sure.

What did you think it means?..

P.S. What's the 'burn test' for silk?..

 

[HarpPlayerGene]

If you ever wanna sell that red corduroy one... look me up!

My original intention was to buy it to sell it. Then I started kinda' falling for the thing.

You are a vintage clothing wheeler dealer who knows his stuff. Why the interest in this? Think it's '30s, '40s '50s??

C'mon; DISH!!

 

[Baron Kurtz]

Snip a bit of fabric, typically from a hidden seam, set it on fire. I usually hold the small fabric piece in the end of a pair of metal scissors and ignite on a gas hob. Allow it to burn completely until it extinguishes.

If it smells like burning hair, it came from and animal. The feel and look of the fabric will tell you if it's silk or wool (the most commonly used animal fabrics). It looks to me like it's silk, rayon, cotton or synthetic. the burn test will tell you. Cotton and rayon will smell like burning leaves. The ash for all natural fibres will crumble readily. Synthetics will leave a hard lump of plastic. There may be smells similar to those described above if the fabric is a mixture of synthetic and natural fibres.

THANKS, Baron.

That age assessment is somewhat surprising yet conceivable. I was thinking no later than turn-of-the-century/teens.

Yes, there IS a button hole behind the button at the collar. Made me think the shirt either originally was intended for a stud there or possibly that a person made a mistake in the initial button hole placement. A curiosity for sure.

What did you think it means?..

P.S. What's the 'burn test' for silk?..

 

[Undertow]

I'll hazard some educated guesses on the second shirt.

If that is corduroy (as it appears to be), and it's used in shirting, it's either going to be silk, cotton, wool or a blend. I doubt very much that it's silk - silk corduroy would not be an economical or practical material for shirting. I also doubt that it's wool. Although pile fabrics have a certain luster, wool corduroy is inherently dull compared to cotton, especially if the cotton was mercerized to give it strength and shine. Cotton or a cotton blend is most likely, and it wouldn't surprise me if it were something like 45% cotton, 45% Rayon and 10% Lycra. (note: you mentioned that it's lightweight, which could lend credence to a higher synthetic count - both 100% cotton and wool corduroy would be heavy.)

Regarding the design, it's similar to some Peruvian patterns as seen here on a rug. Notice the loops and dots.

However, many factors point to an amalgamated design bearing resemblence to multiple "native" cultures. This was almost definitely machine loomed as a hand loomed pile fabric requires skill and time that would not likely have been employed for mass marketed shirts. That collar and label smacks of late 50's through early 60's. Also, the label suggests handwashing which indicates to me that it's probably cotton or synthetic (as opposed to silk which would likely be dry cleaned, and wool much the same). As this shirt was probably manufactured prior to improved synthetics technology, I would rule out nylon and polyester, in favor of lycra or acrylic - both of which take care in laundering.

 

[repeatclicks]

My original intention was to buy it to sell it. Then I started kinda' falling for the thing.

You are a vintage clothing wheeler dealer who knows his stuff. Why the interest in this? Think it's '30s, '40s '50s??

C'mon; DISH!!

It's 50s, and Penney's Towncraft is one of my favorite brands. I love 50s gear as you know. How much do you want for it? Send me a PM.

 

[HarpPlayerGene]

Thanks, Undertow. We really weren't considering silk for that shirt - that discussion is about the first, western one.

When I wrote "light weight", I meant in comparison to the usual corduroy jackets or pants. As shirting goes, it's pretty meaty.

The hand washing may have to do with avoiding shrinkage and colors running.

I appreciate the feedback!

 

[HarpPlayerGene]

Now, maybe some others will post Mystery Shirts of their own...

 

[theinterchange]

Another "nothing to add in terms of knowledge" voice, but that shirt is incredible! That coming from someone who doesn't like the disco look.

I have a mystery shirt I'll post when I get photos of it.


Randy

 

[benstephens]

I'd like opinions, thoughts on this one. In person it seems terribly old and wonderful. I wore it tonight with an 80 year old Stetson No. 1 Quality western felt.

[/QUOTE]

Not really my area of expertise, but a few observations. I think it is possibly a home made shirt, certainly the hand stitched button holes are not the best quality, not what I would expect to see from someone who did them all the time. Also, the pocket has a slight flaw in the stitching.

What a fantastic fabric, and with three button holes on the cuff. Do the buttons have any markings on, and are they stitched on with similar fabric to the button holes?

As Baron said, it would be usefull to know what the material is. It reminds me of some heavy cotton work shirts I have from France.
My guess, and this is only a guess would that it dates somewhere in the 1900s period. However, American clothing is not my strong point!

Whatever period it comes from, it is a very nice and unusual item of clothing.

Kindest Regards

Ben

 

[HarpPlayerGene]

...that shirt is incredible!

Thanks, I think so too! I ironed a little 'structure' into the collar so it doesn't splay out flat any more. Much better. But I understand the Baron's position; I sure wish it was silk instead of Poly'.

I have a mystery shirt I'll post when I get photos of it.
Randy

PLEASE DO. Seeing other people's vintage threads is the next best thing to scoring something for one's self.

 

[HarpPlayerGene]

Not really my area of expertise, but a few observations. I think it is possibly a home made shirt, certainly the hand stitched button holes are not the best quality, not what I would expect to see from someone who did them all the time. Also, the pocket has a slight flaw in the stitching.

What a fantastic fabric, and with three button holes on the cuff. Do the buttons have any markings on, and are they stitched on with similar fabric to the button holes?

As Baron said, it would be usefull to know what the material is. It reminds me of some heavy cotton work shirts I have from France.
My guess, and this is only a guess would that it dates somewhere in the 1900s period. However, American clothing is not my strong point!

Whatever period it comes from, it is a very nice and unusual item of clothing.

Kindest Regards

Ben

Yes, the buttons are stitched with the same thread as used throughout. I think the hand made idea is probably correct. Could be a real one-of-a-kind.

OK, I guess I'll have to do that burn bit. Oh, and I'll check the buttons for imprinting (good idea, that!). Will update...

Thx!

G