My New Alexander Leathers Jacket.

[Sloan1874]

I received some leather samples from Amanda at AL for a future project; the CXL steer is some nice stuff but they also have Horween FQHH, making the choice of hide for a jacket order that much more difficult!

It's not the same as Aero's FQHH, it's just plain chrome tanned HH. If you want CXL from AL, you'll need to go with the steer.

 

[thor]

Both those AL's are fine looking jackets! Wear 'em well, gentlemen.

 

[Mickey Bowtie]

It's not the same as Aero's FQHH, it's just plain chrome tanned HH. If you want CXL from AL, you'll need to go with the steer.

I am sorry to hijack the tread, but beeing a novice I could not find a clear answer to this, neither here, nor at Alexander Leathers', nor at Horweens website: wherein lies the difference? Both are said to be chrome-tanned, using heritage formulas and whatnot. But seeing as they are marketed differently and CXL supposedly beeing the superior product (albeight maybe just in price) I would really liek to know.

Cheers.

 

[scrawlysteve]

I read somewhere (cannot remember where unfortunately ) on this forum that only the very, very finest of hides from animals which have led pampered and happy lives are deemed suitable for the CXL treatment.....don't know if the poster had some kind of axe to grind though as the post was immediately followed by another which seemed to suggest the statement may have had an ulterior motive....

 

[Sloan1874]

Simply put, chrome tanned is a fairly standard procedure used around the world by tanneries good and bad. CXL is a proprietary tanning process belonging to Horween. You've seen the jackets made from their FQHH on here, so you know one when you see it. [huh] And for the record, no matter what you've read, Aero has exclusive rights to use Horween's CXL FQHH.

 

[scrawlysteve]

Thanks Sloan....but given that Horween produce both CT and CXL, and that you've actually visited the tannery ---can you confirm that the hides selected for the CXL process are superior to the CT ? Or are all hides created equal and CXL makes some more equal than others ?

 

[Capesofwrath]

I am sorry to hijack the tread, but beeing a novice I could not find a clear answer to this, neither here, nor at Alexander Leathers', nor at Horweens website: wherein lies the difference? Both are said to be chrome-tanned, using heritage formulas and whatnot. But seeing as they are marketed differently and CXL supposedly beeing the superior product (albeight maybe just in price) I would really liek to know.

Cheers.

Horween's site is a bit spread out and unlinked, but there is info on the processes there if you hunt around. CXL is chrome and vegetable tanned it seems, and hand dyed finished. The CT is straight chrome tanned. It's shiny and a bit plasticy compared to CXL.

As to HH versus Steer, it's the tanning method that matters really not whether it's horse, or steer, or bison. Once tanned they are all equally water resistant for instance. Then the differences between CXL Horse and CXL steer are minor, and come down to horse being a bit smoother than steer and steer wrinkling in deeper folds. Even the experts can't always tell them apart easily with absolute certainly it seems. There's been a bit of a fetish for horse in recent years, maybe because it's seen as more authentic since most of the US jackets which companies like Aero base their designs on were made of it up until the end of the fifties. But that was just because of the abundance of cheap horsehide. Even now Horween's steer is more expensive from the tannery than horse. But because of this recent upsurge of interest in it and in CXT particularly Horween can't produce enough of the stuff.

I'm sure if they did up the capacity in future it would be available to AL, it's just a supply issue. Other jacket makers in the US use it as do many shoe manufacturers of course. It is shoe leather really and the original jackets most of these designs are based on didn't use such heavy FQHH as this.

 

[Mickey Bowtie]

Capesofwrath, Sloan, thank you for elaborating. Oh, and hey, very nice jacket!

 

[schitzo]

Capes and Scrawley you're meddling looks to have paid off handsomely, well played sirs!

I'd say the length of yours Capes is perfect for your figure. And that the buttons on that drifter - something I'd never considered - make it a more attractive prospect.

Modifications like these are a pleasure to behold

 

[Worf]

The jacket is nice and clean and good-looking hide. Your name is CoW, so it makes since to get steer

Here's a shot of my cuffs from 2011 on the FQHH Aero HBD. I claim rights to that brilliant move

The question I had in mind was HOW do they work. Snaps at the wrist... but only one? Suppose it's too loose or too tight? A couple of buttons or a couple of snaps would give you some wiggle room or did you have to give them your wrist diameter as well? Thanks for the information.

Dave

 

[nevadapd]

The question I had in mind was HOW do they work. Snaps at the wrist... but only one? Suppose it's too loose or too tight? A couple of buttons or a couple of snaps would give you some wiggle room or did you have to give them your wrist diameter as well? Thanks for the information.

Good question, Worf. I have a Langlitz with cuff snaps that, when I first got the jacket, were pretty tight...maybe even too tight. Fortunately, as I wore it, the leather loosened up some. The cuffs are ok now. But that still leaves open the question of cuffs with snaps that leave the cuffs too loose. I guess you could wet them and use a hot hair dryer to shrink them, but all of that seems like a lot of work to expend on a pricey jacket. Langlitz did get a wrist measurement from me, so I guess they know what they're doing, but not everyone asks for those.

 

[Plumbline]

no matter what you've read, Aero has exclusive rights to use Horween's CXL FQHH.

Not sure that's strictly true Craig ... many manufacturers have access to CXL Horse ... just not AL currently. Equally CXL Horse is used in many processes not just jacket manufacture.

Having seen both production processes the very best Horsehides go into manufacture of cordovan shells for shoe manufacture primarilly. Thats where the money is. The difference between those horse hides used for chrome tanned or veg tanned or CXL or any other tanning process performed at Horween are not primarilly quality driven as far as I understand it but more demand driven. I'm sure Skip or Nick can give further detail but from what I saw the grading it wasn't a " only the very best Horsehides make CXL" but rather we remove the shells and that which is left is sorted, trimmed, tanned and graded.


The difference between CXL (horse and steer) and CT is marginal and indeed Aero and others also produce jackets from CT ..... it's all about horses for jackets

I guess unless it's labelled Horween CXL FQHH then it is difficut to tell them apart. Indeed I have Aero jackets simply labelled Horsehide and not FQHH made from veg tanned struck through REALLY NICE horsehide which I rate higher than CXL and infinitely more wearable . Indeed NONE of the wartime A-2's ( as far as I can assertain) were manufactured using CXL Horsehide it's origins were in industrial applications and manufacture of gaskets ... it's only in recent times driven by Aero in the naughties primarilly ..... that it's usage in jacket manufacture came to the fore.

NONE of the vintage jackets from the 40's and 50's that I have seen appear to be made from Horween CXL ...... so it's interetsting to me that it should be so popular amongst purists. I do like it though but prefer mid weight to the Heavy FQHH and do believe the steer is a "better" leather in terms of breaking in and level of comfort ( but this is a very personal thing).

Just my tuppenthworth .....

 

[Worf]

The question I had in mind was HOW do they work. Snaps at the wrist... but only one? Suppose it's too loose or too tight? A couple of buttons or a couple of snaps would give you some wiggle room or did you have to give them your wrist diameter as well? Thanks for the information.

Good question, Worf. I have a Langlitz with cuff snaps that, when I first got the jacket, were pretty tight...maybe even too tight. Fortunately, as I wore it, the leather loosened up some. The cuffs are ok now. But that still leaves open the question of cuffs with snaps that leave the cuffs too loose. I guess you could wet them and use a hot hair dryer to shrink them, but all of that seems like a lot of work to expend on a pricey jacket. Langlitz did get a wrist measurement from me, so I guess they know what they're doing, but not everyone asks for those.

Thanks you answered my question exactly AND highlighted the dilemma. A $200 mall jacket with one snap is fine... a $1000 bespoke hide is another thing altogether.

Worf

 

[Swoosed]

Thanks you answered my question exactly AND highlighted the dilemma. A $200 mall jacket with one snap is fine... a $1000 bespoke hide is another thing altogether.

Worf

I have an arkansas from them with a one button cuff and its fine. if you have unusually thick wrists i would tell them to make it a little bigger.

 

[scrawlysteve]

Capes and Scrawley you're meddling looks to have paid off handsomely, well played sirs!

I'd say the length of yours Capes is perfect for your figure. And that the buttons on that drifter - something I'd never considered - make it a more attractive prospect.

Modifications like these are a pleasure to behold

Well thank you Schitzo...and thank you Schitzo....

 

[coloradorider]

CapesOfWrath - really like the jacket. Think you made excellent choices in spec'ing this out. Re: the red stitching - could you go buy a Phase One IQ 80mm kit and get some decent pictures with a ruler in the frame for stitch counting. Seriously, I have a red/brown stitching with a similar colored hide and it turned out fantastic. Like you, I was concerned when it was described to me that it would be a little over the top, but really like the look. Here's a Goodwear B&T AN-6552 with dull red stitching - http://www.goodwearleather.com/pages/gwbogen_images2.html. Is this similar to your stitching since it's hard to get a feel from the pictures you posted. Glad you're enjoying the lighter weight steer and that it eliminates the suit of armor feeling of the heavier hides. It'd be nice to have options for the CXL look without the armor like break in period.

Not sure that's strictly true Craig ... many manufacturers have access to CXL Horse ... just not AL currently. Equally CXL Horse is used in many processes not just jacket manufacture.

Having seen both production processes the very best Horsehides go into manufacture of cordovan shells for shoe manufacture primarilly.

FQHH only describes where on the horse the hide came from. Not how it was tanned.

This is a nice explanation on Horween's site about the difference between the different hides and where shell cordovan comes from - http://horween.com/101/by-request-whats-the-difference/. Front-Quarter Horse Hide (FQHH) comes from the shoulder and the shells come from the butt. FQHH and cordovan aren't really competing in the sense you imply because they come from different parts of the animal.

Chromexcel tanning is explained on Horween's site very well in this blog post - http://horween.com/leathers/chromexcel/. Chromexcel is a combination tanning process where they they chrome tan the leather and then finish by vegatable tanning the leather, stuffing it with wax, and applying a surface finish.

Wikipedia has a pretty good explanation of the different kinds of tanning methods - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leather. I think the important point is don't get your expensive vegetable tanned jacket soaking wet.

Craig - is there some agreement between Horween and Aero not to supply other manufacturer's directly with CXL horsehide? You can buy CXL FQHH from stockists and subsequently make jackets from it so what you're saying isn't enforceable or an absolute.

Cheers

 

[Swoosed]

Well thank you Schitzo...and thank you Schitzo....

 

[Capesofwrath]

Thanks you answered my question exactly AND highlighted the dilemma. A $200 mall jacket with one snap is fine... a $1000 bespoke hide is another thing altogether.

Worf

Im my case my wrists are not very think and I can easily get the jacket on without undoing them; and actually I didn't even notice that they used these on the jacket and thought it would have buttons. I think I would have specified them if I had noticed but then there's the mix of zip and buttons to think of....

Maybe another mod like the wrist straps on a Route 66 would have been better. But you can't ask for too many changes, it's taking the proverbial really.

 

[Swoosed]

i've been on the fence about using HH or Steer on my next one, i think this thread has solved the problem. I also wanted to get a different model but the mods you did brought me back to the drifter. the samples i got were great, but the steer did seem much softer and plyable after some kneeding. the horse was a little stiff, i'm too old to fight with a jacket for years to get it to feel right. the grain on the steer sample popped right away, the horse is much smoother.

 

[Capesofwrath]

CapesOfWrath - really like the jacket. Think you made excellent choices in spec'ing this out. Re: the red stitching - could you go buy a Phase One IQ 80mm kit and get some decent pictures with a ruler in the frame for stitch counting. Seriously, I have a red/brown stitching with a similar colored hide and it turned out fantastic. Like you, I was concerned when it was described to me that it would be a little over the top, but really like the look. Here's a Goodwear B&T AN-6552 with dull red stitching - http://www.goodwearleather.com/pages/gwbogen_images2.html. Is this similar to your stitching since it's hard to get a feel from the pictures you posted. Glad you're enjoying the lighter weight steer and that it eliminates the suit of armor feeling of the heavier hides. It'd be nice to have options for the CXL look without the armor like break in period.



FQHH only describes where on the horse the hide came from. Not how it was tanned.

This is a nice explanation on Horween's site about the difference between the different hides and where shell cordovan comes from - http://horween.com/101/by-request-whats-the-difference/. Front-Quarter Horse Hide (FQHH) comes from the shoulder and the shells come from the butt. FQHH and cordovan aren't really competing in the sense you imply because they come from different parts of the animal.

Chromexcel tanning is explained on Horween's site very well in this blog post - http://horween.com/leathers/chromexcel/. Chromexcel is a combination tanning process where they they chrome tan the leather and then finish by vegatable tanning the leather, stuffing it with wax, and applying a surface finish.

Wikipedia has a pretty good explanation of the different kinds of tanning methods - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leather. I think the important point is don't get your expensive vegetable tanned jacket soaking wet.

Craig - is there some agreement between Horween and Aero not to supply other manufacturer's directly with CXL horsehide? You can buy CXL FQHH from stockists and subsequently make jackets from it so what you're saying isn't enforceable or an absolute.

Cheers

I did try to upload some better pics from my computer but hit an upload limit. This is about as high resolution as I can upload. I think it shows the stitching a bit better. I was toying with going a bit redder but with this colour hide I think this is more restrained.

BTW that Goodwear is very nice and the stitching looks similar in colour to mine. Actually I didn't see any red stitching before I asked AL to do it and Amanda seemed a bit doubtful at first and said they'd never done any at either AL or Aero. I saw what looked like red on a picture of an Aero jacket which actually was a camera effect. But I liked it and it gave me the idea.