Music suggestions 20's 30's big band & jazz?

[DigThatBeat]

Cab Calloway! He is my favorite bandleader of the 30's & 40's.
[YOUTUBE]<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/08wOPt-2PeE&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/08wOPt-2PeE&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Chas]

Cab had the good sense to hire the best musicians he could afford that weren't already tied up elsewhere. He also cut a few records that featured his sidemen like Chu Berry who does some incredible soloing on "I Don't Stand A Ghost Of A Chance" and an absolutely amazing record featuring Milt Hinton on "Pluckin' The Bass".

 

[Aristaeus]

America's number one Trumpet player, Harry James.

 

[vitanola]

America's number one Trumpet player, Harry James.

Well, throughout most of the period in question, Harry James was but a sideman, sometimes in circus bands no less, as the OP was asking about 1920's and 1930's music. The James band was not formed until '39 as I recall.

James was indeed a virtuoso, and a great talent, and he led one of the most important bands of the 1940's, but even so many would argue with the moniker "America's number one Trumpet player" as applied to Mr. James.

 

[Aristaeus]

LOL I am sorry, I meant to write "America's Ace number one Trumpet Player", to quote the media of the time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcZxxknu0Hw

the OP was asking about 1920's and 1930's music. The James band was not formed until '39 as I recall.

I am fairly certain that a Big Band formed in 1939, playing music which was written in the 1930's or before falls into the topic of this thread. "Music suggestions 20's 30's big band & jazz".

Well, throughout most of the period in question, Harry James was but a sideman, sometimes in circus bands no less.

There is nothing no less about this, it was growing up in the circus bands that allowed him to hone his craft to the point of being a formidable trumpet player by his teens. At age four Harry James became known as a "hot music" drummer and was elevated to playing the trap drums in the Christy Brothers concert band. (During this same period Buddy Rich, Harry's future and favorite drummer was touring the world in Vaudeville with his parents billed as "Traps the Drum Wonder".) Harry was able to perform two concerts a day.
By age eight Harry switched from drums to cornet. By age 11 he was playing first chair and conducting the band in his fathers absence. At age 12 Harry was given leadership of the Christy Brothers #2 band playing trumpet solos opposite his father and his band. During this time an article in BillBoard mag proclaimed him the youngest circus bandleader in the world.
By age 13 Harry was playing as a member of trumpeter Vic Insirilo's group at the only Jazz club in Beaumont TX.
By age 16 he was playing with dance bands around his home town and was a guest artist with the Ringling Brothers Barnum & Bailey circus band.
By the time he graduated high school he was touring the Mid-West with several dance bands.
During his years with the circus band Harry not only played marches but also the Blues and Jazz with most of the music being W.C. Handy's compsitions. Considering he lead and was a trumpet soloist in a circus band during the 1920's that played large numbers of Blues and Jazz tunes, being in a circus band was no less.
As far as being a sideman you are right. From 1932 thru 1938 Harry James was a sideman and recorded for many bands including the Benny Goodman Orch, Teddy Wilson and Lionel Hampton not to mention Harry James is the soloist on Billie Holiday's 1938 recordings of "Everybody's Laughing." and "They Say".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-crEuGtEn8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shSq9KJEQ7o&feature=related
Harry also wrote, co-wrote with Benny Goodman and arranged songs for the Goodman Orch.
But! In 1937 Harry James was given an oppertunity by John Hammond to put together his own nine-piece band who's sidemen were Ziggy Elman, Vernon Brown, Dave Matthew's, Adrian Rollini and Dave Tough Gene Krupa's replacement Herschel Evens, Eddie Durham, who contributed the charts: Buck Clayton, Earl Warren, Thurman Teague, Harry Carney. Jack Washington, Jo Jones with Helen Humes on vocals.
Begining on Dec 1. 1937 Harry James and his band started recording for Brunswick records including James originals. "One O'Clock Jump" and "It's the Dreamer in Me" hit the top ten putting Harry James squarley ontopic for this thread. All this by the age of 21.

James was indeed a virtuoso, and a great talent, and he led one of the most important bands of the 1940's, but even so many would argue with the moniker "America's number one Trumpet player" as applied to Mr. James.

I could really go into this but it would take up allot of space. Lets just say only one trumpet player of the era could come close to Harry James and could rightly be called his equal.
Resource:
Trumpet Blues The Life of Harry James.
By Peter J. Levinson.
Copyright 1999.
Oxford University.

 

[vitanola]

LOL I am sorry, I meant to write "America's Ace number one Trumpet Player", to quote the media of the time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcZxxknu0Hw

I am fairly certain that a Big Band formed in 1939, playing music which was written in the 1930's or before falls into the topic of this thread. "Music suggestions 20's 30's big band & jazz".

There is nothing no less about this, it was growing up in the circus bands that allowed him to hone his craft to the point of being a formidable trumpet player by his teens. At age four Harry James became known as a "hot music" drummer and was elevated to playing the trap drums in the Christy Brothers concert band. (During this same period Buddy Rich, Harry's future and favorite drummer was touring the world in Vaudeville with his parents billed as "Traps the Drum Wonder".) Harry was able to perform two concerts a day.
By age eight Harry switched from drums to cornet. By age 11 he was playing first chair and conducting the band in his fathers absence. At age 12 Harry was given leadership of the Christy Brothers #2 band playing trumpet solos opposite his father and his band. During this time an article in BillBoard mag proclaimed him the youngest circus bandleader in the world.
By age 13 Harry was playing as a member of trumpeter Vic Insirilo's group at the only Jazz club in Beaumont TX.
By age 16 he was playing with dance bands around his home town and was a guest artist with the Ringling Brothers Barnum & Bailey circus band.
By the time he graduated high school he was touring the Mid-West with several dance bands.
During his years with the circus band Harry not only played marches but also the Blues and Jazz with most of the music being W.C. Handy's compsitions. Considering he lead and was a trumpet soloist in a circus band during the 1920's that played large numbers of Blues and Jazz tunes, being in a circus band was no less.
As far as being a sideman you are right. From 1932 thru 1938 Harry James was a sideman and recorded for many bands including the Benny Goodman Orch, Teddy Wilson and Lionel Hampton not to mention Harry James is the soloist on Billie Holiday's 1938 recordings of "Everybody's Laughing." and "They Say".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-crEuGtEn8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shSq9KJEQ7o&feature=related
Harry also wrote, co-wrote with Benny Goodman and arranged songs for the Goodman Orch.
But! In 1937 Harry James was given an oppertunity by John Hammond to put together his own nine-piece band who's sidemen were Ziggy Elman, Vernon Brown, Dave Matthew's, Adrian Rollini and Dave Tough Gene Krupa's replacement Herschel Evens, Eddie Durham, who contributed the charts: Buck Clayton, Earl Warren, Thurman Teague, Harry Carney. Jack Washington, Jo Jones with Helen Humes on vocals.
Begining on Dec 1. 1937 Harry James and his band started recording for Brunswick records including James originals. "One O'Clock Jump" and "It's the Dreamer in Me" hit the top ten putting Harry James squarley ontopic for this thread. All this by the age of 21.

I could really go into this but it would take up allot of space. Lets just say only one trumpet player of the era could come close to Harry James and could rightly be called his equal.
Resource:
Trumpet Blues The Life of Harry James.
By Peter J. Levinson.
Copyright 1999.
Oxford University.

"I am fairly certain that a Big Band formed in 1939, playing music which was written in the 1930's or before falls into the topic of this thread. "Music suggestions 20's 30's big band & jazz"."

Well, one could stretch a point. Really, though, the obvious merits of his music aside, Harry James, from a public perspective was really a 1940's phenom. Besides, in '37 James had just left Pollack to join the Goodman organisation. "One'o Clock Jump" was indeed a 1937 hit, in its Decca waxing by it's composer, Count Basie. Goodman added the popular number to his book by the end of the year, and featured it in the Carnagie Hall concert. My ARC record supplements show that Brunswick 8055 was issued in Jan of '39, shortly before with the inaugural tour of the new James band. This scarce disc (scarce because the Brunswick label was discontinued by the ARC's new owners, CBS in the first months of '39. The number was re-recorded and issued on Columbia 37142, a copy of which now lies on the turntable of my R-99.

Quibbling about time period aside, and, yes, James's band did perform for a part of one out of the twenty years in question, but most of his music really isn't representative of the 'thirties, save, perhaps to modern ears. His general style was much more progressive.

Now as far as Jazz and Swing trumpeters, well despite James' virtuosity, is he in the same class as, say, Armstrong or Beiderbecke (yes, Bix played cornet, but the two instruments are conflated in the minds of the Public and arrangers), Punch Miller, Bubber Miley, Rex Stewart, Cootie Williams, or Joe Oliver? Close, perhaps, for some, but when I hear him play I hear a great virtuoso who played in the swing idiom because it was what the public wanted, rather than a jazz or swing innovator, although I must say that even in his old age he put on a great show. Have you seen him live?

Now off to work. Perhaps this evening I'll dig out a copies of "Boo Woo" and "Ciribiribin" along with "West End Blues" and "Singin' the Blues".

 

[Blackjack]

Armstrong was the King Kong of trumpet players, but give Harry James his dues man, he was a tremendous musician. He may have preferred the "sweet" sound but when he wanted to blow, the cat had chops. I saw him live 3 times and was impressed every time.

 

[Blackjack]

Harry James just smokin that trumpet...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNWxwvIwC-Q.

 

[Lexybeast]

For piano, you must check out Fats Waller and Art Tatum. Tatum could probably outplay even the most respected classical pianists of the 20th century.

 

[Chas]

I could tear off a dozen names on the trumpet before I make it to Harry James, no disrespect to Aristaeus. It's subjective.

But, my inner music critic will not be still. These cats I would put ahead of Harry.

* Louis Armstrong
* Bix Beiderbecke
* Roy Eldridge
* Rex Stewart
* Cat Anderson
* Bunny Berigan
* Billy Butterfield
* Jack Purvis
* Hot Lips Page
* Cootie Williams
* Harry "Sweets" Edison
* King Oliver
* Benny Carter
* Bill Coleman
* Clark Terry
* Ray Nance
* Bubber Miley
* Dizzy Gillespie

Harry could throw it out there but apart from a few sides he did with Goodman in the late '30s the man leaves me cold, and I find that his Orchestra was heavy on the schmaltz.

Piano?

I love Tatum and Waller, but neither of them outswings Teddy Wilson. Waller was the king of the Stride players, though there are others worthy of mention, Willie "The Lion" Smith, for example. Tatum was absolutely brilliant, but very much a one-man show. He didn't really collaborate well, and that is central to being a jazz musician. It's democratic.

 

[Blackjack]

Bunny Berigan yes, he was awesome... and Roy Eldridge too. Now a funny thing, I saw Eldridge playing at the old Rick's Cafe in Chicago years ago and he made a very big deal praising Harry James so... [huh]

 

[vitanola]

Armstrong was the King Kong of trumpet players, but give Harry James his dues man, he was a tremendous musician. He may have preferred the "sweet" sound but when he wanted to blow, the cat had chops. I saw him live 3 times and was impressed every time.

I consider Harry James to be one of the great trumpet, nay, Brass virtuosi of the Twentieth Century, quite in the same league with the likes of Aubrey Brain and Jules Levy (who was really a Nineteenth century star), and I greatly enjoy the music of the James organisation. James lead crack outfit, one with fine sidemen, soloists, vocalists and excellent arrangements, in fact his band could be described as the apotheosis of the 1940's swing band. In addition to his great musical gifts, james was a fine organiser and businessman. He was able to keep his band together, touring and performing at its usual high level of polish fully a generation after most of the other greats )and not-so-greats) of the Swing Era had hung up their horns and left the field.

He just was not a major influence in the 'thirties, nor was he necessarily ofe of the most important jazz innovators.

He really could play, though!

 

[Chas]

If you consider schmaltz to be worthy of deification, which is highly debateable.

Oh, and I forgot Ziggy Elman. I'd put him ahead of James.

 

[vitanola]

If you consider schmaltz to be worthy of deification, which is highly debateable.

Oh, and I forgot Ziggy Elman. I'd put him ahead of James.

I gather that you did not note that I placed James in a class with Aubrey Brain and Jules Levy, brass virtuosi of the highest order, but not Jazz Men by any stretch of the imagination. James was a fine technician indeed, with cultivated musical taste and excellent managerial skills, though I would certainly never call him a great jazz performer. In addition to his great technical skill, James did have a finely developed rhythmic sense, and in Jazz solo work definitely had his moments, but they were only moments. James ran one of the best pop bands of the 'forties. The could play swing for the dancers, but they were hardly in jazz class with Basie or any of the Herds. I never implied as much.


Here is a 1933 HMV recording of Brain playing the horn part in the 1st movement of the Brahms Trio for Piano, Violin and Horn. A stellar performance indeed, by no means jazz- neither is it goose grease!

[YOUTUBE]<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/FdoVtmGtXgA&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/FdoVtmGtXgA&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>[/YOUTUBE]

The second virtuoso who I mentioned was Jules Levy (1838-1903) (NOT Jules Levy, JR., a NY musician who played in the Joseph Samuels and Dominico Savino bands in the early 1920's.) Levy passed on in '03, and so never recorded the greatest of his famous trumpet fireworks ( Variations on "The Carnival of Venice", "Grand Russian Fantasia", "Ciriberibin", etc). By the time that he recorded commercially, his technique had suffered due to vascular troubles, but his "Our Own Make- Polka" waved for the Victor in '01 gives us an idea of his talents. His Variations on "Du - Du (Leigst Mir im Herzen) waxed for Edison in '02 are most impressive. Both recordings may be found here:

http://abel.hive.no/trumpet/levy/Levy_Our_Own_Make_Polka.mp3

And the "Du-Du Variations":

http://abel.hive.no/trumpet/levy/Jules_Levy_Du_Du-with_Var.mp3
So, Chas, do you consider pre-jazz (or non jazz) music to be all "Schmaltz"?

James played well crafted pop and dance music, with a level of quality and polish that has seldom been surpassed. He never proposed to do anything else.

 

[Chas]

Of course, all of this is in a thread started by a FL'er that was looking for 20's 30's big band & Jazz.

So that's way fftopic:

 

[vitanola]

Of course, all of this is in a thread started by a FL'er that was looking for 20's 30's big band & Jazz.

So that's way fftopic:

Agreed!

Note that another poster mentioned James as the be-all and end-all of jazz trumpeters, calling him "America's Number-One Trumpet Player"


I then suggested that James' band was not necessarily a good example of '20's and '30's music, as he was really a '40's star. The other poster disagreed, and so I have attempted to place James in some historical perspective.

All music is essentially related. Listen to some of the Hulzul recordings by Hummenieuk, or the clarinet stylings of Naftule Brandwein, and compare them to Johnny Dunn's 1923 discs, or perhaps compare Bix's "Flashes' and "In a Mist" to Debussy's "Children's Corner" suite, or Ravel's "Pavanne Pour un Infant De'funte" and tell me that this music grew in a vacuum.

I know my musical blind spots. I care not for most post-1940 stuff. Too noisy for my taste (except for Patti Page. I won't describe my reaction to her "Tra-la-la, Twiddle-de-de" as I have yet SOME sense of decorum )

Remember that music did not begin with Bunk Johnson, nor did it end with the death of Les Paul.

When music is under discussion, are there not more interrealtions, and mutual influences that we care to admit? Play a Hulzul Vargan by Pawel Hummenieuk, or a Bulgar by Naftule Brandwein along with a 1923 Johnny Dunn or Ladd's Black Aces side, or carefully listen to Bix's "Flashes" or "in a Mist" followed by Ravel's "Pavanne pour une Infante De'funte" and then claim no relation.

 

[vitanola]

Harry James just smokin that trumpet...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNWxwvIwC-Q.

Impressive!

Sort of a '1940's version of Jules Levy featured with Gilmore's Band at the Centennial Exposition in Philadelphia in 1876.

In this 1943 clip James exhibits absolute technical mastery. Truly a bravura performance. But it isn't swing.

 

[Aristaeus]

Of course, all of this is in a thread started by a FL'er that was looking for 20's 30's big band & Jazz.

So that's way fftopic:

You mean like this list?

1940's:

Coleman Hawkins
Lester Young - I recommend the Blue Note Release "The Alladin Sessions"
Oscar Peterson
Errol Garner
Lionel Hampton
Georgie Auld
Ben Webster
Duke Ellington (the '40's orch. was probably the best Ellington band)
Ella Fitzgerald
Billie Holiday (particularly the 36-38 Teddy Wilson sessions)
Anita O'Day
Flip Phillips
Illinois Jacquet
Count Basie Orch. & small groups (Smith-Jones Inc., Count Basie Octet)
Tyree Glenn
Les Paul Trio (pre-Mary Ford)
Rex Stewart
Mary Lou Williams
Jess Stacy
Artie Shaw
Milt Hinton
Dizzy Gillespie
Jay McShann
Cat Anderson
Lucky Millinder
Buddy Johnson
Dave Bartholomew
Johnny Hodges
Gene Krupa (small groups)
Max Kaminsky
Nat "King" Cole
Chu Berry

For some of the very best Jazz recordings of the 1940's splurge on this. These jam sessions really do capture the true essence of jazz at it's artistic peak, before many of the best and brightest started killing themselves with booze and heroin. Improvisation never sounded better.

As far as Ziggy Elman he is another of my favorites, but when you threw his name in there . Poor Benny Goodman, he didn't realize that his best trumpet player was sitting in the wrong chair down from Harry James lol.

Benny Goodman with Harry James, Ziggy Elman and Gene Krupa on drums.
Sing Sing Sing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mJ4dpNal_k

__________________

 

[stillsparkling]

Glenn Miller, Benny Goodman, Tommy Dorsey, Al Donahue, Artie Shaw, Jimmy Dorsey, Kay Kyser, Frank Sinatra, Helen Forrest, Harry James, Martha Tilton, Fred Astaire, Woody Herman, Ray McKinley, Bing Crosby, Paul Whiteman, Louis Armstrong, Duke Ellington, Billie Holiday, Ella Fitzgerald, Count Basie, Gene Krupa, Lionel Hampton.

Quite a long list, but you really can't go wrong with any of them.

 

[Shangas]

For piano, you must check out Fats Waller and Art Tatum. Tatum could probably outplay even the most respected classical pianists of the 20th century.

Waller and Tatum were two of the GREATEST jazz-pianists of the 30s and 40s. They made hundreds of recordings each. Sadly, both of them died rather young (by modern standards).

By the way Lex, you forgot to mention one important fact...

Tatum was almost completely blind.