Missing posters

[Sharpsburg]

I know there was a thread on this somewhere else that turned into a horrible slug-fest, but I really have noticed that some of the most loyal and helpful posters here have just totally disappeared. What gives? Are they being driven away or just losing interest in the hobby? They are not going to the Facebook page, so how can we lure them back? I have noticed that the Blitzkreig baby forum is almost dead, too?

Any thoughts on livening the joint up, a bit?

Mary aka Sharpsburg

 

[Stanley Doble]

And yet us duds keep hanging around. I don't know, people change, get busy, get tired of the same thing. Maybe your favorites will come back after they take a little break.

I must say, this is about the most troll free site I visit. So you have that going for you.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Basically, it's the same answer every time this question comes up -- it's just the nature of an internet forum. People come and go, make a big impression and then burn out and disappear. Other people go away for long stretches, come back when there's something that interests them, and then go away again. Others are here when they're going thru a "vintage phase" and then fade away when they move on to whatever their next phase is going to be. Very few of the women who were here when I first came here eight years ago are still active, but that's the way it goes.

The other answer is simple -- we get out of the Lounge exactly what we put into it. There's always room for fresh posts on interesting subjects -- all anyone has to do is post them. Ask not what the Lounge can do for you, but what you can do for the Lounge.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Ask not what the Lounge can do for you, but what you can do for the Lounge.

Very nicely put Lizzie!

 

[Stanley Doble]

There are forums that I contributed to for several years then got bored and left. You can only answer the same questions so many times.

 

[F. J.]

May I?

Ask not what the Lounge can do for you, but what you can do for the Lounge.

That's good. Very good, even. I just might have to appropriate that for my signature—with the lady's permission, of course.

Whadaya say, O Mainer Bartender?

 

[Horace Debussy Jones]

I'd say so too. I recently joined what appeared to be a harmless enough photography site. But it turned out to be some sort of political site wherein the elite held their own popular opinions among themselves, and all others were promptly stepped on. It was really nothing more than some twisted, one sided sounding board for perhaps a dozen or so members. Truly an obnoxious place full of internet trolls patting each other on the back for their so-called political correctness.
Maybe that happens a lot on various forums? But here, it seems one can politely express an opinion without being flamed. :target:
(Also, there are some pertinent smilies here.)

I must say, this is about the most troll free site I visit. So you have that going for you.

 

[Lady Day]

Recently people have come to want the lounge to entertain them instead of contributing to the pool of content that is already here. They post a question, leave then come back and collect the information that people were eager to share. I've been bitchy to people who do that because this place isn't their own personal research center.

But what Lizzie says is true, ebbs and flows, other social media, and people moving on. Tis the nature of the beast.

 

[VintageBee]

In my case, my internet connection is not good. (I live in the bottom of a canyon in the countryside.) I cannot tell you how many times I've typed out replies and questions only to have the connection 'disconnect' and all is lost! We did install a booster and it seems to be helping so hopefully I can get a word in edgewise! (Which is never a problem in real life )

 

[sheeplady]

I hate speaking for other people, but I have heard from several ladies that they have stopped posting as much here because they have felt bullied or were upset by seeing others bullied. Some ladies have felt that others (mainly women, but some men) were frequently and specifically being targeted by a group of posters with moderators not stepping in. Not here in the powder room, but in other parts of the lounge.

Some of these women are still around and watching these boards- they just do not post. I don't blame anyone for leaving if they feel bullied or unwelcome. I don't want to start a firestorm by saying this, but I've had enough discussions with these ladies to know that several have come to this conclusion independently.

Now that doesn't account for everyone who has left, but it is worthwhile mentioning because I have heard it enough.

 

[Sharpsburg]

I have also heard this, Sheeplady. Sadly, some very knowledgable posters have left that way. Kind of why I brought it up.

 

[sheeplady]

I have also heard this, Sheeplady. Sadly, some very knowledgable posters have left that way. Kind of why I brought it up.

I think we definitely have a problem if women are feeling unwelcome to post in other parts of the lounge. The powder room risks becoming the women's ghetto. I don't think that was the intention of the powder room when it was created.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I think we definitely have a problem if women are feeling unwelcome to post in other parts of the lounge. The powder room risks becoming the women's ghetto. I don't think that was the intention of the powder room when it was created.

No, we've always encouraged women to participate lounge wide, and unfortunately every forum, no matter how carefully policed, attracts its share of bullies, misfits, troublemakers, and jackasses. That, too, is the unfortunate nature of the internet. We deal with them as best we can.

Unlike a lot of forums, we don't make a big deal about public declarations of banning people unless they're really public and egregious about what they do to get banned. Calling someone the "c-word" in an open discussion, for example -- as has happened to me -- is the surest way there is to getting an immediate bum's rush. But generally we don't line troublemakers against the wall and shoot them, we just cause them to go away. One day their passwords don't work anymore, and nobody ever hears from them again. If there's someone bullying you -- not just disagreeing with you, but actually bullying you -- and action hasn't yet been taken, don't feel squeamish about reporting the conduct. It will be dealt with. Same thing with inappropriate PMs, suggestive remarks, male participation in designated women's-only threads, and so forth. We don't see each and every post, so if action hasn't been taken on something that ought to be taken, report it to the Bartender of the particular room, and it will be addressed.

Personally, I find the "ignore" button very useful in dealing with people who irritate me but who haven't yet done anything to get themselves banned. Usually I find that those thus ignored eventually *do* get banned, or get bored when the "weird retro people" refuse to respond to their trolling and slink out the back exit.

 

[sheeplady]

No, we've always encouraged women to participate lounge wide, and unfortunately every forum, no matter how carefully policed, attracts its share of bullies, misfits, troublemakers, and jackasses. That, too, is the unfortunate nature of the internet. We deal with them as best we can.

Unlike a lot of forums, we don't make a big deal about public declarations of banning people unless they're really public and egregious about what they do to get banned. Calling someone the "c-word" in an open discussion, for example -- as has happened to me -- is the surest way there is to getting an immediate bum's rush. But generally we don't line troublemakers against the wall and shoot them, we just cause them to go away. One day their passwords don't work anymore, and nobody ever hears from them again. If there's someone bullying you -- not just disagreeing with you, but actually bullying you -- and action hasn't yet been taken, don't feel squeamish about reporting the conduct. It will be dealt with. Same thing with inappropriate PMs, suggestive remarks, male participation in designated women's-only threads, and so forth. We don't see each and every post, so if action hasn't been taken on something that ought to be taken, report it to the Bartender of the particular room, and it will be addressed.

Personally, I find the "ignore" button very useful in dealing with people who irritate me but who haven't yet done anything to get themselves banned. Usually I find that those thus ignored eventually *do* get banned, or get bored when the "weird retro people" refuse to respond to their trolling and slink out the back exit.

I am not sure if these incidents have been reported or not and what the outcome has been. I can't speak for others in regards to that.

 

[LizzieMaine]

I am not sure if these incidents have been reported or not and what the outcome has been. I can't speak for others in regards to that.

I personally have gotten maybe three or four reports of "bullying" in the seven years I've been a bartender, and in each case the perpetrator has been dealt with. Sometimes the person comes back under another identity, but we usually penetrate such disguises pretty quickly, and they get the boot again. I can't speak for any other Bartender in any other room -- I only have authority here, in Beauty, in Radio, and in The Reading Room -- but I do know we regularly discuss problem situations among ourselves. if there had been a direct complaint, it would have been addressed in those discussions.

 

[Tomasso]

I don't see bullying being a major cause for member attrition, particularly for the ladies. I've seen instances where a few highly opinionated ladies have been chided or rebuked on occasion but I wouldn't term that bullying, which is a long term type of thing.The closest situation would be when a member stalked Rue across the FLounge, taunting her on multiple occasions, but that member was female.

 

[Lady Day]

Even if something makes you uncomfortable or even a bad feeling, bring it up to a bartender. "Hey, I have a weird feeling about this poster, and here are some examples to support my weird feeling." At least then they will be on the radar. We discuss all problem members. But having a combative opinion isn't really bullying, but we as mods can discuss it.

 

[LizzieMaine]

Even if something makes you uncomfortable or even a bad feeling, bring it up to a bartender. "Hey, I have a weird feeling about this poster, and here are some examples to support my weird feeling." At least then they will be on the radar. We discuss all problem members. But having a combative opinion isn't really bullying, but we as mods can discuss it.

Right. There are bound to be disagreements among members, disputes over a point of view, and that's just how it is. But actual harassment of one member by another -- dogging them around the Lounge from post to post when they've been told not to do it, unwelcome PMs, inappropriate comments directed to individuals within posts -- is something we don't tolerate here, and it *will* get the harasser banned.

But it's got to be brought to our attention -- as I said, no one bartender sees every post, and bartenders only have specific authority in the specific forums under their control. And bannings aren't the result of one bartender's decision -- it's done by consensus, when we've agreed that the troublemaker has to go. It's a process, not a single decisive swing of the axe, and it doesn't happen instantaneously. But it *does* happen when we agree that it's warranted.

It may be that some people get so upset about such things that they don't want to go thru the process of reporting a problem -- it may be easier for them to just say "nuts to this" and leave the Lounge, and there's nothing we can do about that. If that's what they need to do, that's what they need to do.

 

[St. Louis]

I thought I might chime in here; I still really love reading this forum, but after one unpleasant encounter I stopped feeling comfortable posting in some of the threads. I guess I'd like to say that there is a significant difference between being openly insulted, bullied, or threatened, and being subjected to rudeness. From what I've experienced personally and have seen around various threads, I'm under the impression (and please correct me if I am wrong) that a lot of the behavior is directed at women.

I get plenty of pressure at work and don't feel a need to engage in it off-hours. I only post on this forum when I'm at home, and I just don't want to bring untoward remarks about women into my home.

I understand that moderators can't spend their entire lives reading every thread and slapping down every rude poster. That's not reasonable. I just wish that there were a way to ask some folks, gently and reasonably, to try to be a little more gentlemanly.

 

[Shangas]

As an administrator and mod on forums large and small both now and in the past, I'd just like to say that what you see of a forum is only the end-product. There's a LOT OF STUFF going on in the background that most people never even know about. I've built forums from scratch and it takes a lot of effort to get it looking good, and to keep it looking good, and to police it and ensure that things run smoothly. It's not an easy job and it's very time-consuming, ESPECIALLY on a forum as active as the Lounge.

A forum is like a graceful swan. It looks beautiful gliding along the top of the water, but you don't see the legs beating like mad underneath.

What Lizzie says is perfectly true. Some people come when they have something to say. Some stay and when they get bored, they leave. Some just come for one thing and then go. Some will stay forever. Some even have their death-notices posted on forums (I've seen it happen plenty of times).

But of course there will always be online bullying. It's a case of "Come out from behind that screen and say that to my face!". The anonymity and protection of the internet turns otherwise wonderful people into monsters. That's nothing new. The difference is how the moderators and administrators handle it.

If the mods and admins are going to be weak-willed and jelly-legged about it, then nothing will happen. But they need to know how to strike a balance.

I was a member of a forum which was...shall we say...'over-moderated'. It was basically an online dictatorship where the moderators were telling everyone where they could, or could not post. I had enough and I left. Unfortunately for the forum, I was a major contributor. And when I left, I took all my content with me. I was honestly that insulted. That caused a vacuum and completely without my backing, dozens and hundreds of other members left as well. What the staff failed to realise was that a forum is only as strong as its member-base. If it doesn't have one, it'll collapse. And maintaining that base is all that matters. If you can't do that, then you shouldn't be a mod.

It doesn't matter whether YOU like a person and want THEM to stay. It's how they feel. They might stay, if they feel that they feel comfortable there. But if the moderators provide no support and protection (as was the case in this other forum), then they just pack up and leave. What's the point of staying?

The members of the other forum I was talking about begged me to stay. I told them quite flatly, I didn't give a damn, and I didn't care. I used to really like that forum, but after various revelations, I lost all respect for the staff. And when you don't respect the moderators, you don't care about them. And if you don't care, you just want to get the hell out. And I did.