Manners/Etiquette

[SweetieStarr]

Just curious...

I'm not quite sure how to word this, but it's something that has been on my mind and wanted to know if I was alone in my observations.

In past decades for which we all here in the Lounge have an affinity, people had manners. They knew how to act in public and how to treat other people. However, I feel that over time, many parents have stopped taking the time to teach their children manners, and as a result, there are now many rude, ill-mannered and inconsiderate people.

For example, I was at dinner and asked the very loud table next to me to lower their volume as my party and I had to scream to hear each other. The loud table responded with a smart-aleck comment and made sure to purposely talk even louder to annoy us.

Since we all like to follow ways of the past, do you all feel it is important to follow "older" (and in my opinion, timeless) rules of etiquette? Have you all noticed the same behavior from others that I have?

Am I alone in my frustrations?

Thanks for entertaining my vent.

 

[Diamondback]

No, you're not alone--I try, when I must use my cell in public, to keep the volume as low as possible (although this is also in equal part to to my somewhat secretive "I'll mind my business--go mind yours" nature), and a pet peeve is these characters that have to share both sides of their conversation with the entire room and everyone in it; in my experience Sprint/Nextel "Direct Connect" users are the very worst of offenders here.

While I am rather abrupt, blunt, and to-the-point (my preferred greeting is "State your business"), I also try to at least be politely so.

 

[SweetieStarr]

It's not just the restaurant thing. That just happened so it fueled the fire. I'be just encountered a general lack of manners or courtesy by others and was wondering if I was the only one.

 

[CharlesB]

I think there has been a decline in ettiquette that being said, based on the level of misconduct there, I would say that morons are timeless

 

[jayem]

My generation (God, do I hate to say it...) has a problem with being corrected. We get very hurt when critiqued or when our mistakes are pointed out because we're so used to our good qualities being brought into the light more so than the bad ones.

That being said, I just think as people age, we think the younger people are ruder than before. I'm sure the Baby Boomers considered Generation X to be defiant little scumbags, and I'm sure the Silent Generation considered the Boomers to be the same.

 

[Rufus]

There does seem to be the unfortunate and unreasonable assumption these days that you are 'disrespecting' someone if you correct, or politely request someone to change their behaviour. (Anything from litter, to language, to rowdy neighbours)

Teens in particular in the UK take a faux US gangsta approach to confrontation, and I've been at the unfortunate end of this on a number of occasions when asking people be polite, or refrain from intimidating others.

still.... I think it best to confront ignorance, politely, and try at least to make a difference.

Long live manners and etiquette!

Ruf

 

[scotrace]

You can't put into practice what you haven't learned. I think it's so that few people are getting training in how to interface with others throughout the day. From the person you encounter at the door to the library, to the wait staff at a restaurant, to the people you speak with on the phone. There are better ways to do everything so that everyone comes away with a pleasant experience, but I really think few parents teach etiquette, mainly because they themselves weren't taught. Much of it was discarded by the Boomer generation.

 

[donCarlos]

I was taught only the basics (how to eat like a human, to greet, to thank etc.) by my mother and I find it satisfactory. However, when I want to behave really nicely, I use the self-taught extended etiquette. It´s very difficult sometimes, but definitely leaves good impression on others.

 

[Rittmeister]

To me this all seems to another symptom of a sense of entitlement gone too far combined with a lack of accountability in our society. Our 24-hour, celebrity-obsessed media seems to have replaced everything and everyone as the source of all knewledge and roll models. When it idolizes bratty celebrities and athletes, politicians and moguls who get away with whatever they choose to do, then people think they can do whatever they want, anywhere they want, with no accountability to anyone.

I agree that today direct confrontation is useless and potentially dangerous. Making your problem someone else's problem is the best option in most cases.

I would be interested in hearing from other members in other countries. Is this a particularly American problem? My experience in some other countries is that small children are more well-behaved in public, or at least the parents try to make them so.

 

[SpitfireXIV]

You can't put into practice what you haven't learned.

agreed.

that may be a fine explanation, but it is certainly no excuse. at some point in everybody's life, they have to be responsible for their own actions. i wish society at large understood that...

edit: i guess it is the mission of all of us at the Lounge to set forth a good example and make manners fashionable again *cursty*

 

[Rittmeister]

I totally agree. An explanation is not an excuse. People need to be responsible for their actions and their consequences.

I also agree that we who are into the older values need to set the example. If we do not, there are not many that will.

 

[MrNewportCustom]

My generation (God, do I hate to say it...) has a problem with being corrected. We get very hurt when critiqued or when our mistakes are pointed out because we're so used to our good qualities being brought into the light more so than the bad ones.

That being said, I just think as people age, we think the younger people are ruder than before. I'm sure the Baby Boomers considered Generation X to be defiant little scumbags, and I'm sure the Silent Generation considered the Boomers to be the same.

Sorry to have to correct you, but . . .

. . . I look at the next generation and, in many cases, see absolute rudeness to the point of being surprised when a child isn't rude, including to their own parents. I compare how I treat people to how other generations did and do, and I see that I am, at times, ruder then my parents ever were (I do my best to be a kind person, but there are times when even I find it difficult), that they were more so than their parents and so on up the line. Generally speaking, it is my experience that each generation does become less refined than the generation which preceeded it.

I look at people my own age and see horrible manners: A coworker of mine, as an example, is all about; slovenliness, cheating, rude speech (even in front of his five-year-old girl), openly smoking around those who dislike it, an "I'm better than you" and "my toys are bigger and better than yours" attitude, etc. The man is an absolute boor; an arrogant slob. He has nothing to recommend him and has lost more business for the company that we work for than the current economy. Losing business for the company is grounds for termination, but management not only keeps him around, they defend him when customers call to complain about him. His peers can't figure that out.

Sorry about the rant, but I'll tell you this: I wouldn't want to be around his children when they grow up.

Manners and ettiquette are sorely missing in these modern times, and I wish there was some way to reverse that. Unfortunately, we of the Fedora Lounge are the "not many" who will set the example. That's why the Lounge needs to continue growing.


Lee

 

[magnolia76]

I can't believe some things that parents let their children do. I was at the UPS store patiently waiting in line while this women is talking to the clerk. Meanwhile, her 2 year old son is knocking all the cardboard poster tubes on the floor and she is WATCHING him do it!! And then she leaves. People come to my salon and let their kids scream at the top of their lungs without taking them outside or correcting them to wait. ARGH!!! Never will I let my kids get away with that stuff. Pathetic.

 

[ScionPI2005]

My generation (God, do I hate to say it...) has a problem with being corrected. We get very hurt when critiqued or when our mistakes are pointed out because we're so used to our good qualities being brought into the light more so than the bad ones.

That being said, I just think as people age, we think the younger people are ruder than before. I'm sure the Baby Boomers considered Generation X to be defiant little scumbags, and I'm sure the Silent Generation considered the Boomers to be the same.

I agree with this to an extent. It seems that the world is always changing, and the strongest example of this is how people change throughout the generations. I've heard from my dad and several others that the generation before the Baby Boomers felt somewhat terrified by the behavior of the Boomer Generation. My dad has told me that his listening to The Beatles and wearing his hair longer caused so much friction from parents and school administrators. It seems that there are things that each proceeding generation does as a whole that worries or frustrates the older generation.

Now, this by far doesn't explain the rudeness aspect. The Baby Boomers may have been more wild than the generation before it (and that of course is left to opinion), however, the sense of community that existed when the Boomers were growing up seemed to enforce the concept of them being raised with manners and knowing what is right and wrong.

Somewhere in time, that sense of community has been lost. Everyone seems afraid to correct or constructively criticize anyone else. If a teacher disciplines a child for something, the parents sue the teacher. Nobody seems to be held responsible for their actions anymore, and that is the real problem.

The question remains: How did we lose this sense of community and why?

 

[LizzieMaine]

You can't put into practice what you haven't learned. I think it's so that few people are getting training in how to interface with others throughout the day. From the person you encounter at the door to the library, to the wait staff at a restaurant, to the people you speak with on the phone. There are better ways to do everything so that everyone comes away with a pleasant experience, but I really think few parents teach etiquette, mainly because they themselves weren't taught. Much of it was discarded by the Boomer generation.

This is exactly so -- and it's one reason why I'm extremely careful who I hire for concession help at the theatre. The vast majority of kids today were taught that there's no need for them ever to defer to anyone else -- so the notion of *serving* customers as opposed to simply "waiting on them" is something they can't fathom. It grates on my nerves when I go to a fast-food stand and give my order and the kid on the other side of the counter looks at me and says "That it?" or when *I* end up being the one who says a pointed "thank you" at the end of the transaction. (And when they say "No Problem" back, I feel like screaming.)

I stress to our kids that we aren't just selling movies and popcorn, we are selling an experience. That means showing respect, courtesy, and, yes, *deference* to the customers -- and no cocky, swaggering, in-your-face attitudes will be tolerated.

 

[ScionPI2005]

You can't put into practice what you haven't learned. I think it's so that few people are getting training in how to interface with others throughout the day.

Forgive me, I just thought of something else to add to my above comment. I think what scotrace said here rings true, and sadly I really think the internet and technology may have something to do with it. Today, our society is not required to interact with other human beings face to face to get anything done. You can shop online, converse online, and even have movies delivered right to your door with Netflicks, all without encountering another human being face to face.

Text messaging and email is in, and is the way most people interact today. With text, you don't have to learn social skills, and the tone of the text is ambiguous and can be interpreted in many different ways. You can re-write text in the heat of an argument to say something that you may not really mean, and there are no vocal cues or pauses to hint that you may not really mean what you say.

I for one admit that the internet has more than likely caused me to fall behind in social skills, yet maybe not to the extent as some people in my generation. I hate text messaging and would rather talk on the phone (its a lot faster and personal). Yet I still bet that my social skills are weaker than the older generation.

 

[Real Swell Gal]

There is a guy I work with that I absolutley cannot stand to be around.
He's grouchy,rude,talks while he chews,chews with his mouth open,burps at the table and will not say please or thank you.

The sad thing is he's probably pushing 60.
He once asked me to pass the salt rudely and I said 'how bout please pass the salt". He says to a nother guy in the break room "she doesn't know me very well does she?' I said, " I know your mother didn't teach you table manners."
Even my nine year old knows better than to act like that at the dinner table no matter where she is.


Oh and I just wanted to add something else. In my dental assisting books,there are CHAPTERS FULL of things to do and say to patients as part of good manners.
Everytime I take a CE course I laugh when I read them because they are so common sense. But the sad thing is,these days,people lack alot of common sense.

 

[SpitfireXIV]

fftopic:

He has nothing to recommend him ...

that reminded me of something Jane Austen would have written...

Text messaging and email is in, and is the way most people interact today. With text, you don't have to learn social skills, and the tone of the text is ambiguous and can be interpreted in many different ways. You can re-write text in the heat of an argument to say something that you may not really mean, and there are no vocal cues or pauses to hint that you may not really mean what you say.

that might be a big part of it too. the irony is, we have more ways to communicate with each other, but nothing worth saying.

 

[HeadHunter]

Something I like to do is compliment people on their child's behavior when it's really good. I was in a restaurant a few nights ago and an older couple sat down at the next table with their granddaughter, perhaps 4 or 5 years old, and I really dreaded it. To my surprise, she played quietly, walked around (we were on the patio) without running, and was a nice well-behaved little girl.

When I left I told her grandparents: "My compliments to her parents, she is a very well-behaved girl." They seemed very pleased to get the compliment.

 

[Tango Yankee]

About 20 years ago, when I was living in Austin, TX, I took a date to a restaurant on 6th Street. There were a group of young men (slightly younger than I was at the time) in the next booth. They'd obviously enjoying their evening out with alcohol, and were getting louder and louder. I finally talked to the waiter, and the manager came and asked them to leave.

That was OK, but then, when we were getting ready to leave, the manager again came over and apologized for the rudeness of the other group... and tried to explain it away by telling us they were US Air Force Reservists and that's how the military is. You should have seen the look on his face when I icily informed him that my date and I were BOTH active duty Air Force and we certainly were not that way! lol

Still, I do agree that there appears to have been a decline in general good manners over the past few decades. Of course, I also think that anyone older than I would say it started even farther back then that! It seems to me that each generation mutters about how bad the next generation is compared to what we were like at that age, and that each generation is right... it's an ongoing decline. Fortunately, there are still pockets of resistance out there defending civilized manners to the last!

Regards,
Tom