Making a Western hat by hand?

[mattsteinfeld]

First of all Art would never dry block a felt. I work with mostly dress weight and anything other than the 95gr FEPSA which I still give a very generous spritz plus lots of steaming I wet block.

That includes the Winchester, Ukraine 160gr and Tonak 140 gram bodies i use. I just get a much better blocking without having to wrestle the damn felt.

The cord must be absolutely non stretch. If your cord has any stretch to it then it relaxes and you lose tension. I mostly use the silicon blocking springs. I find they work ever so much better and regardless of whether I need to steal crown from the brim can block a felt in minutes with minimal effort. I rarely have to use a puller downer.

This is Art blocking dress weight with minimal water and light steam

at 2:00
For a Western, what he is doing is dry blocking, at least to me, as there is no saturation.

Is any water use considered a wet block? I’ve never seen someone block with zero moisture/steam Have you? This clearly isnt an option with Western capelines.

 

[belfastboy]

This is Art blocking dress weight with minimal water and light steam

at 2:00
For a Western, what he is doing is dry blocking, at least to me, as there is no saturation.

Is any water use considered a wet block? I’ve never seen someone block with zero moisture/steam Have you? This clearly isnt an option with Western capelines.

If you buy yourself a steam machine like Art's then yes, you can get away with a spritz. Those machines produce much more steam than a standard Jiffy Steamer like I use. That is not light steam in the video. Art is the one that taught me how to block.

 

[Yahoody]

> I’ve never seen someone block with zero moisture/steam Have you? This clearly isnt an option with Western capelines.

Yes, I have. No steam or water. Dozens of Winchester, western, beaver blanks have been done that way. It is an option. Just not a very practical one IMO.

 

[mattsteinfeld]

> I’ve never seen someone block with zero moisture/steam Have you? This clearly isnt an option with Western capelines.

Yes, I have. No steam or water. Dozens of Winchester, western, beaver blanks have been done that way. It is an option. Just not a very practical one IMO.

@Yahoody Wow! Very interesting.

 

[mattsteinfeld]

If you buy yourself a steam machine like Art's then yes, you can get away with a spritz. Those machines produce much more steam than a standard Jiffy Steamer like I use. That is not light steam in the video. Art is the one that taught me how to block.

@belfastboy It is easy for me to forget about the machines others use (like you mentioned Art’s plating machine) and wonder why they might do the other steps differently.

Art seemed like a cool, helpful guy. He says in that video he was coming up on 5000 hats. Any anecdotes from him to share?

 

[Yahoody]

>Wow! Very interesting.

Every hat built in Roy's Elko hat classes are done dry. You can guess as to why that is how he teaches.

 

[glider]

I think Winchester felts is owned by Stratford hats out of Chicago, the guys that do the uniform hats. I may not be spelling them correctly but they do make fine hats and I would guess that they get there pick of the felts.

 

[mattsteinfeld]

I made this one yesterday afternoon in Ukrainian Rabbit (Anthracite).
5.5” crown
4” brim
1/8” black ribbon

 

[deadlyhandsome]

I think Winchester felts is owned by Stratford hats out of Chicago, the guys that do the uniform hats. I may not be spelling them correctly but they do make fine hats and I would guess that they get there pick of the felts.

I have one of the Stratton custom 100% beaver homburgs. It’s a nice hat, but it doesn’t stand out. I was thinking of ordering another, but I’ve decided other hat makers get me more of what I prefer. It’s odd that we don’t see more Stratton’s in something other than their uniform hat line.

 

[glider]

I suppose their uniform line of hats is their bread and butter. They offer about anything anyone could want and the quality is very good. I guess they just don't really market their custom line. I have spoke to them and was told I was welcome to stop by to order and for custom sizing. I need to make a trip to the Windy City. Stop by Eagle grips, Stratton Hats, Portillos and have some pizza.

 

[yestahh]

I use special gloves that can handle heat and give me good grip. If the felt is hot enough to burn your hands then you are approaching the right way. If you can handle it without special gloves then it ain't steamed enough.

Newb here, what kind of gloves work best in this kind of application of hot water and steam?

 

[belfastboy]

Newb here, what kind of gloves work best in this kind of application of hot water and steam?

Not sure what they are called but I paid $10 per pair. elastic glove with neoprene facing on the palm and fingers. Gives some heat protection but also add good grip as well. I just went to a local tool/hardware supply that had a wall of work gloves and picked out something that looked like it would work.

 

[mattsteinfeld]

Hi fellas, it's been a while. I have a bit of a problem. I got a 100% capeline from Millinery Warehouse and I am making a pretty big hat (62.5cm) with a 5.5 inch crown and this capeline is not covering the block. I have at least an inch until I get the capeline break down to the bottom of the block. I am not sure what to do. I know Pure Beaver sells those CX crowns, but it the circumference, not the crown height really, that is causing problems. Even if I get the block covered, it's still going to shorten the brim, not to mention the warping. It is a #52 block. How do get a huge block to fit into the felt?

 

[belfastboy]

Hi fellas, it's been a while. I have a bit of a problem. I got a 100% capeline from Millinery Warehouse and I am making a pretty big hat (62.5cm) with a 5.5 inch crown and this capeline is not covering the block. I have at least an inch until I get the capeline break down to the bottom of the block. I am not sure what to do. I know Pure Beaver sells those CX crowns, but it the circumference, not the crown height really, that is causing problems. Even if I get the block covered, it's still going to shorten the brim, not to mention the warping. It is a #52 block. How do get a huge block to fit into the felt?

If I understand you the problem is you felt left at the top of the block with an inch or more still to move down on the block?
Is that correct?

In most cases if you are having an issue with blocking then you are not wetting or steaming the felt enough. A #52 block has only a slight taper and with western weight it takes a lot to get the felt fully over the shoulder of the block so it has to be steamed thoroughly because you are in effect stretching the felt over the block. . When working with Ukraine western weight I first thoroughly soak the hat then steam it for at least 10 minutes. I use a Jiffy Steamer and also tent the felt in a large black trash bag. When it is steaming frequently rotate the felt so the steam is not concentrated in one spot or you can steam out the dye and end up with a light spot.

Use gloves as the felt will be too hot to handle with bare hands.
Now with western weight it takes work/time to get the felt over the shoulders of the block so the felt will cool before you are done. I use a Rowenta hand steamer while I block to keep the felt hot. Use the steamer to focus directly on the area you are working. Also make sure your table is not too high. Use a lower table so you can get your weight over top of the felt/block and use your body weight not just your arms. If you are hatter doing this multiple times a day you risk Carpal Tunnel in your wrists/arms.
A hat of that size on a #52 block is asking a lot of the felt. It can be done as I do it all the time. I have many customers with 62 to 63cm sized heads. But it will take work. When I block a western weight felt on a large block I don't call it blocking I call it wrestling.

 

[mattsteinfeld]

Thanks @belfastboy. Here is a picture of what I mean. I steamed it beyond saturation. Put my whole body into it and it’s not even close to blocking. It’s just fanning out and warping the brim. I’m
at a loss. The capeline doesn’t look smaller than others I’ve used from MH. Even my smaller blocks aren’t fitting, either. This has never happened in 15 hats I’ve made with these same blocks.

 

[belfastboy]

Thanks @belfastboy. Here is a picture of what I mean. I steamed it beyond saturation. Put my whole body into it and it’s not even close to blocking. It’s just fanning out and warping the brim. I’m
at a loss. The capeline doesn’t look smaller than others I’ve used from MH. Even my smaller blocks aren’t fitting, either. This has never happened in 15 hats I’ve made with these same blocks.

Is there felt left at the top of the block? If I am blocking a large size and need a tall crown I will need to steal some crown height from the brim. That is a bitch to do as you have to force the horizontal brim into a vertical plane. It is a fight to do it.

The picture shows me this felt is not steamed enough as you have still a stiff brim with a discernable brim break. To do what you are trying to do you need to steam the factory brim break out of the felt so it resembles a cone. Until you do that what you are trying to do is nigh impossible. And regardless you will end up with puckers at the new brim break as that new vertical area is wider than the original crown. The fix for that is ironing and more ironing and then more ironing.
This is the thing with hatting. Making a hat is simple and actually easy......when it all works. What is required in becoming a hatter is knowing what to do when shit don't work. It is the 'workarounds' that you need to learn and those my friend are most vexing.

 

[Who?]

Is there felt left at the top of the block? If I am blocking a large size and need a tall crown I will need to steal some crown height from the brim. That is a bitch to do as you have to force the horizontal brim into a vertical plane. It is a fight to do it.

The picture shows me this felt is not steamed enough as you have still a stiff brim with a discernable brim break. To do what you are trying to do you need to steam the factory brim break out of the felt so it resembles a cone. Until you do that what you are trying to do is nigh impossible. And regardless you will end up with puckers at the new brim break as that new vertical area is wider than the original crown. The fix for that is ironing and more ironing and then more ironing.
This is the thing with hatting. Making a hat is simple and actually easy......when it all works. What is required in becoming a hatter is knowing what to do when shit don't work. It is the 'workarounds' that you need to learn and those my friend are most vexing.

This post makes me wish we could give double likes.

 

[mattsteinfeld]

Well, my steamer is not great so I ended up soaking the felt in water and teased out the capeline break. It ended up looking like an upside down grocery bag (think, Pac-man ghost) and pulled it over the block. It worked after giving it hell. I rolled what would have been a brim up to the block bottom and ended up broking the brim flush with the block. I was so happy. The hat block is a 7 7/8 so there wasn't much left to cut off the brim anyway for a 4 inch brim. I seriously had my doubts but I gave it one more go and it worked. Thanks for the encouragement @belfastboy. I'll post a picture soon. This hat is huge. I think a block with less shoulder would have been much easier than this #52. It is crazy how tough the beaver felt is, though. That last bubble at the top of the crown took some time to get out. Most of these hats have been easy so far. This was big a lesson for me. Thanks, fellas.

 

[belfastboy]

Well, my steamer is not great so I ended up soaking the felt in water and teased out the capeline break. It ended up looking like an upside down grocery bag (think, Pac-man ghost) and pulled it over the block. It worked after giving it hell. I rolled what would have been a brim up to the block bottom and ended up broking the brim flush with the block. I was so happy. The hat block is a 7 7/8 so there wasn't much left to cut off the brim anyway for a 4 inch brim. I seriously had my doubts but I gave it one more go and it worked. Thanks for the encouragement @belfastboy. I'll post a picture soon. This hat is huge. I think a block with less shoulder would have been much easier than this #52. It is crazy how tough the beaver felt is, though. That last bubble at the top of the crown took some time to get out. Most of these hats have been easy so far. This was big a lesson for me. Thanks, fellas.

The straighter the sides of the block the tougher it is. #52 has some taper to it. I have some blocks that are absolute straight with little dome. Blocking a western weight in a larger size (62cm+) is a battle. I also use blocking springs not blocking cords as I find them easier to use. I use the blocking springs to move that last inch of felt down the block. A spring and a pusher downer with the block & felt over the table edge works best for me.

 

[belfastboy]

Well, my steamer is not great so I ended up soaking the felt in water and teased out the capeline break. It ended up looking like an upside down grocery bag (think, Pac-man ghost) and pulled it over the block. It worked after giving it hell. I rolled what would have been a brim up to the block bottom and ended up broking the brim flush with the block. I was so happy. The hat block is a 7 7/8 so there wasn't much left to cut off the brim anyway for a 4 inch brim. I seriously had my doubts but I gave it one more go and it worked. Thanks for the encouragement @belfastboy. I'll post a picture soon. This hat is huge. I think a block with less shoulder would have been much easier than this #52. It is crazy how tough the beaver felt is, though. That last bubble at the top of the crown took some time to get out. Most of these hats have been easy so far. This was big a lesson for me. Thanks, fellas.

If you plan to continue exploring hat making I suggest a Jiffy Steamer is your next purchase. Well worth the expense and for a table top hatter produces an adequate amount of steam. Especially true if you are working with heavier western weight felts.